Noob rider technique question - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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Old 10-30-2015, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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Noob rider technique question

I'm at a stop light behind several cars. The light turns green, I let the clutch out smoothly, start moving, and lean into the turn. Then I realize I need to slow down a bit for the cars in front of me. I try to ease off the throttle gently, but even a slight turn of my wrist seems to close it completely. I pitch forward, try to add a little throttle, give it too much and pitch backward, and then I'm doing a back-and-forth pogo all the way through the intersection.

Should I:
(a) use the clutch instead of the throttle to adjust my speed
(b) drag the rear brake
(c) shift into 2nd gear much earlier
(d) keep practicing and learn better throttle technique
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Old 10-30-2015, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Nazium View Post
I'm at a stop light behind several cars. The light turns green, I let the clutch out smoothly, start moving, and lean into the turn. Then I realize I need to slow down a bit for the cars in front of me. I try to ease off the throttle gently, but even a slight turn of my wrist seems to close it completely. I pitch forward, try to add a little throttle, give it too much and pitch backward, and then I'm doing a back-and-forth pogo all the way through the intersection.

Should I:
(a) use the clutch instead of the throttle to adjust my speed
(b) drag the rear brake
(c) shift into 2nd gear much earlier
(d) keep practicing and learn better throttle technique
CLutch action always smooths it out, the disconnect from the throttle to the rear wheel is immediate. Clutch is really a savior for everything from climbing step muddy hills in the dirt, to traffic maneuvering. That being said, I often don't even use first gear from stop lights. I take off in second, shift to fourth and leave it there until I need to slow down again.
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Old 10-30-2015, 12:39 PM
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I'm new to motorcycling as well, I put maybe 750 miles on my Versys this year. Took a little while to get used to the throttle, need to be very precise with it or you'll bucking back and forth awkwardly. In the scenario you described above, I'd be easing off the clutch into the turn, clutch in once I realized I'm moving too fast and needed to lightly brake. Then as the cars ahead of me pick up, slowly rev match back into 1st or 2nd (ideally 2nd because its way smoother).

So yeah, use the clutch!
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Old 10-30-2015, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Nazium View Post
Should I:
(a) use the clutch instead of the throttle to adjust my speed
(b) drag the rear brake
Suggest these two, but MOSTLY (a)....
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Old 10-30-2015, 02:11 PM
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clutch and you should try 16T front sprocket ... one of the best mods i ever did ...
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Old 10-30-2015, 06:27 PM
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All low speed maneuvers require a balance or smoothness and power delivery.
This can only be achieved by slipping the clutch.

We were instructed during Learner school to hold a high idle (~2000-2500 rpm) then releasing the clutch slowly enough to slip the clutch to apply some power and closing the clutch to remove power.

You use the throttle to hold a higher rpm so as not to stall, and then apply some rear brake to hold back the bike while slipping the clutch to apply power to pull you forward.
By using the rear brake and slipping the clutch you can very effectively control you bike and crawl along - especially useful when doing u-turns.

There is a lot of physics behind it... but with the engine running at a higher rpm you generate more gyroscopic stability to also keep the bike vertical.
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Last edited by Gigitt; 10-30-2015 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 10-30-2015, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Nazium View Post
I'm at a stop light behind several cars. The light turns green, I let the clutch out smoothly, start moving, and lean into the turn. Then I realize I need to slow down a bit for the cars in front of me. I try to ease off the throttle gently, but even a slight turn of my wrist seems to close it completely. I pitch forward, try to add a little throttle, give it too much and pitch backward, and then I'm doing a back-and-forth pogo all the way through the intersection.

Should I:
(a) use the clutch instead of the throttle to adjust my speed
(b) drag the rear brake
(c) shift into 2nd gear much earlier
(d) keep practicing and learn better throttle technique

You need a fuel controller with a proper map. New FI bike maps typically have terrible on/off throttle response.

I put one on my V1k and it doesn't do much for getting off the throttle. For some reason it doesn't appear possible to *ease* off it. It's either there or it's gone completely. Getting back on the throttle is a major improvement however.

It's a lot of money to fix something that shouldn't suck to begin with, but it's either that or you learn to work around it with the clutch and brakes. Can be done, but shouldn't have to be if the bike runs properly.
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Old 10-30-2015, 07:29 PM
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Having been away from riding for a time, I felt stupid as I awkwardly approached stop signs etc. and am grateful for a forum like this where a guy can ask questions without fear of judgement. Stalling at an intersection is embarrassing too. I probably use my clutch too much though.
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Old 10-30-2015, 07:38 PM
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Last edited by CamBkm; 11-30-2015 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 10-30-2015, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigitt View Post
All low speed maneuvers require a balance or smoothness and power delivery.
This can only be achieved by slipping the clutch.

We were instructed during Learner school to hold a high idle (~2000-2500 rpm) then releasing the clutch slowly enough to slip the clutch to apply some power and closing the clutch to remove power.

You use the throttle to hold a higher rpm so as not to stall, and then apply some rear brake to hold back the bike while slipping the clutch to apply power to pull you forward.
By using the rear brake and slipping the clutch you can very effectively control you bike and crawl along - especially useful when doing u-turns.

There is a lot of physics behind it... but with the engine running at a higher rpm you generate more gyroscopic stability to also keep the bike vertical.
That makes sense. I drove stick shift cars for 20 years and got in the habit of slipping the clutch as little as possible, so I guess I need to un-learn that on the bike.
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Old 10-30-2015, 08:32 PM
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That makes sense. I drove stick shift cars for 20 years and got in the habit of slipping the clutch as little as possible, so I guess I need to un-learn that on the bike.
Bikes with a wet clutch - bathed in engine oil also benefit from keeping the clutch cool - so slipping the clutch does not overheat it like in a car.

A car is a dry clutch and will over heat and burn out

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Old 10-30-2015, 08:49 PM
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Well it sounds very similar to my other bike the FZ09, very twitchy, no way to control it mid corner.,. so I flashed the ECU, made it super buttery smooth plus less engine breaking.

Short story - but long outcome, I will flash the versey ECU. I would suggest that for you as well...

G.
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Old 10-30-2015, 10:22 PM
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Noob rider technique question

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Originally Posted by Pecko View Post
clutch and you should try 16T front sprocket ... one of the best mods i ever did ...

Agree!! It takes away a lot of the abruptness.


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Old 10-31-2015, 01:50 AM
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The Versys ECU does NOT need flashing, forget that idea. The correct way is to use the rear brake while maintaining a little throttle. Other than that the 1 tooth larger sprocket suggested will help to smooth out the power delivery and lower the revs at speed however if you only ride city than you may prefer the stronger acceleration the stock gearing gives.

Have a look at this video

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Last edited by MaverickAus; 10-31-2015 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 10-31-2015, 03:01 AM
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2 tooth Bruce... bwahahahahahaha
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Old 10-31-2015, 09:35 AM
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You don't mention what year your versys is. It might be worthwhile to research TPS adjustments on the forum. My low end throttle response improved dramatically on my 09 when I made the adjustment.

'09 Versys
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Old 10-31-2015, 10:25 AM
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You can still burn up an oil lubricated clutch
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Old 10-31-2015, 12:06 PM
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I found the throttle issue really smoothed out after changing the exhaust from the stock can to the 2bros.


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Old 10-31-2015, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MaverickAus View Post
The Versys ECU does NOT need flashing, forget that idea. The correct way is to use the rear brake while maintaining a little throttle. Other than that the 1 tooth larger sprocket suggested will help to smooth out the power delivery and lower the revs at speed however if you only ride city than you may prefer the stronger acceleration the stock gearing gives.

Have a look at this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwH9hYwnei8
Problem is it don't just happen when they go slow. Getting on and off the throttle generally happens anywhere in the rev range. To me, that kind of thing is much less of an issue at slow speeds with the bike upright. It really sucks when you're leaned over in a curve and releasing the throttle causes the forks to compress and then getting back on causes them to extend and maybe even break traction. Maybe not so much with a 650, but with bigger bikes it is very annoying.

You can use the rear brake to try and tame that too, but to me that's working around a flaw that needn't be worked around.
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Old 10-31-2015, 03:17 PM
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saddlebag, the OP was concerned about low speed control hence my answer.
Personally I don't have an issue with the on/off throttle control.

Last edited by MaverickAus; 10-31-2015 at 03:21 PM.
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