Versys parallel twin - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-29-2015, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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Versys parallel twin

So... pardon my ignorance, but tried to search this one not just here, but other websites as well, and could not find the answer.

My question is this; on the Versys 650 (I'm considering a 2015, but should be the same for all), do the cylinders fire at the the same time, or are they offset? For example, some time ago I had a Ninja 500r (EX500) that was a parallel twin, with both cylinders firing at the same time - felt like a single cylinder thumper (think KLR). So, I'm wondering if the 650 in the Versys feels like a thumper, or if the cyls fire opposite (one piston up, while the other piston is down)? Seems as though with the cyls firing opposite, the engine would be smoother than a thumper, and be more free-revving. Having not ridden one yet, just wondering about the characteristics of the engine. Thanks!

Mike

2013 Kawi Concours 14
2012 Kawi KLR650
1983 Kawi GPz550

Is a Versys 650 on the horizon???
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-29-2015, 01:18 PM
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With a 180° crankshaft, rather than the more common 360° you expect to find on a parallel twin, the Versys and Ninja twins produce a staggered firing order, which helps to provide an excellent sense of rear wheel tire traction when heeled over in turn. This would also be an advantage in the dirt, but as we’ve mentioned, the Versys’ suspension prevents it from being the adventure bike it might appear to be. A counterbalancer effectively deals with the vibration this setup creates and what reaches the rider is just enough to make the power entertaining.

Source: http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/model_eval/2012juneversys.pdf

It's no Thumper...

GeneHil - Mount Dora, FL
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Viet Nam: Dec67-Dec68 & Jul69-Dec72
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-29-2015, 01:28 PM
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-29-2015, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the great responses, guys. I appreciate it, and it gives me a better feel for what this bike will be for me.

Finding myself spending a lot of time at work researching the Versys. Last time this happened, there was a new bike in my garage shortly afterwards...

Mike

2013 Kawi Concours 14
2012 Kawi KLR650
1983 Kawi GPz550

Is a Versys 650 on the horizon???
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-29-2015, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by genehil View Post
With a 180° crankshaft, rather than the more common 360° you expect to find on a parallel twin, the Versys and Ninja twins produce a staggered firing order, which helps to provide an excellent sense of rear wheel tire traction when heeled over in turn. This would also be an advantage in the dirt, but as we’ve mentioned, the Versys’ suspension prevents it from being the adventure bike it might appear to be. A counterbalancer effectively deals with the vibration this setup creates and what reaches the rider is just enough to make the power entertaining.

Source: http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/model_eval/2012juneversys.pdf

It's no Thumper...
Thanks for your reply, but thanks more for your service in Viet Nam. I was a little kid when all that was going on, but my older sister lost too many of her friends there. Best wishes, Mike.

sorry for the tangent...

Mike

2013 Kawi Concours 14
2012 Kawi KLR650
1983 Kawi GPz550

Is a Versys 650 on the horizon???
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-29-2015, 04:01 PM
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Thanks Mike...

GeneHil - Mount Dora, FL
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-29-2015, 04:30 PM
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Your Ninja 500R (EX500) also had a 180° crankshaft like in the Versys 650. Maybe it was just not as well counterbalanced. No twin piston, four cycle engine has both pistons in the same cycle and firing order, even those with a 360° crank... Spark plugs do fire at every TDC however, which is twice as often as they need to as there is no camshaft position sensor.

Last edited by invader; 07-29-2015 at 04:48 PM.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-29-2015, 06:41 PM
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SOMEHOW I thought the Vs were 270 degree PTs....


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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-29-2015, 07:25 PM
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Hi Mike,

Simply put...when your power strokes happen close together in time you get more torque for the same HP.

Bob

2008 Ninja 250
2009 KLR 650
2015 Versys 1000 LT

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-29-2015, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by fasteddiecopeman View Post
SOMEHOW I thought the Vs were 270 degree PTs....

You're thinking about Yamaha FZ-07/MT-07 689cc parallel twin engine.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-29-2015, 08:52 PM
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I have read the firing order in the Versys 650 P-Twin 4 stroke is 270deg, not 180deg
That is with 4 stroke 270 deg the engine it goes Bang Bang puff puff, and with 180deg it goes Bang puff Bang puff - and maybe with 180deg firing makes it feel like a thumper.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-29-2015, 10:20 PM
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BMW developed with Rotax a 798 cc (48.7 cu in) parallel-twin engine with a 360 degree firing order. This produced an exhaust note reminiscent of BMW's signature air-cooled boxer twins. However, this firing order required both pistons to move up and down at the same time. To counter the significant inertia produced by the pistons reciprocating, BMW devised a third vestigial connecting rod to a balance weight. The result was a parallel twin with significantly reduced vibration compared with other parallel twin engine designs. The engine is oiled by a dry sump system, and a soft ignition-cut rev limiter engaged at 9,000 rpm. BMW tuned the F800 series engine to run lean, typically with air-fuel ratios in the range of 15:1 to 16:1.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-29-2015, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigitt View Post
I have read the firing order in the Versys 650 P-Twin 4 stroke is 270deg, not 180deg
That is with 4 stroke 270 deg the engine it goes Bang Bang puff puff, and with 180deg it goes Bang puff Bang puff - and maybe with 180deg firing makes it feel like a thumper.
Versys 650 has an 180 degree crankshaft with a firing order of 180 and 540 degrees.

Have a good look at this colored animation with different crankshaft angles on parallel twins: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straig...aft_angles.gif
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Last edited by invader; 07-29-2015 at 11:04 PM.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-30-2015, 01:40 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
Versys 650 has an 180 degree crankshaft with a firing order of 180 and 540 degrees.

Have a good look at this colored animation with different crankshaft angles on parallel twins: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straig...aft_angles.gif
Very cool animation. Thanks!

Mike

2013 Kawi Concours 14
2012 Kawi KLR650
1983 Kawi GPz550

Is a Versys 650 on the horizon???
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-30-2015, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
Versys 650 has an 180 degree crankshaft with a firing order of 180 and 540 degrees.

Have a good look at this colored animation with different crankshaft angles on parallel twins: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straig...aft_angles.gif
Ahh... I Giditt now

Thanks
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-30-2015, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by fasteddiecopeman View Post
SOMEHOW I thought the Vs were 270 degree PTs....

The Triumph Scrambler is and it sounds awesome compared to the 180 degree on the Thruxton and Bonnie.

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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-30-2015, 12:57 PM
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The Triumph Scrambler is and it sounds awesome compared to the 180 degree on the Thruxton and Bonnie.
I'm pretty sure that Triumph twins do not have any 180 cranks. Just 360 and 270, depending on the model.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-01-2015, 10:35 AM
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Your Ninja 500R (EX500) also had a 180° crankshaft like in the Versys 650. Maybe it was just not as well counterbalanced. No twin piston, four cycle engine has both pistons in the same cycle and firing order, even those with a 360° crank... Spark plugs do fire at every TDC however, which is twice as often as they need to as there is no camshaft position sensor.
Same firing order as the 650 and it had counter balancer. I had a Kawasaki ER-5 with that engine, and even though it was a crappy bike, the engine was uber smooth, way smoother than the Versys.

BTW, there is nothing in common between the 500 and 650 engines, the 650 is a completely new design while the 500 can be traced back to the GPZ900. It is said that the 650 is half of a ZX-14R engine, just like the EX500 was half of the GPZ900 engine. I don't know if it is true nor not, but both engines are as different as night and day.

As of today, IIRC:

- Kawasaki 180° 650cc.
- Yamaha, 270° - 700cc, 900cc and 1200cc.
- BMW 360° 800cc.
- Triumph 360° and 270° 865cc. (The scrambler is the one with the 270 crank, and the cruisers)
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-01-2015, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by trialsguy View Post
I'm pretty sure that Triumph twins do not have any 180 cranks. Just 360 and 270, depending on the model.
Ah. That explains why the Scrambler sounds and feels SO MUCH better.

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