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post #1 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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ATGATT vs not

An interesting discussion between two people on opposite ends of the spectrum on the topic.

https://youtu.be/wYDvpqTUIag
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post #2 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 04:14 PM
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I didn't hear any good arguments for not wearing gear. I heard of lot of moaning about regulation.
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post #3 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 05:32 PM
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MOTGMOTT. I always wear helmet and boots. I have lost a little skin but it all grew back.
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post #4 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 06:38 PM
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I believe folks should have the freedom to choose as long as they are willing to live with the consequences of their decisions.

Don't expect me to feel sorry for you when a preventable injury occurs.

Just like the folks who go boating without their life jackets and then they drown when they are drunk and fall off. We are expected to feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for the folks they left behind because they refused to take a known precaution that would have prevented the drowning.

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post #5 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 07:17 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by twowheeladdict View Post
I believe folks should have the freedom to choose as long as they are willing to live with the consequences of their decisions.

Don't expect me to feel sorry for you when a preventable injury occurs.

Just like the folks who go boating without their life jackets and then they drown when they are drunk and fall off. We are expected to feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for the folks they left behind because they refused to take a known precaution that would have prevented the drowning.
You nailed every point that I have on the subject twowheel.
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post #6 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by twowheeladdict View Post
I believe folks should have the freedom to choose as long as they are willing to live with the consequences of their decisions.

Don't expect me to feel sorry for you when a preventable injury occurs.

Just like the folks who go boating without their life jackets and then they drown when they are drunk and fall off. We are expected to feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for the folks they left behind because they refused to take a known precaution that would have prevented the drowning.
Hard to tell what's preventable in a MC accident. Pretty sure all the gear on the planet wouldn't have prevented any of my leg injuries (save a few healthy rug burns) in my recent escapade.

Be that as it may, there's more to it than personal responsibility. Hospitals get stuck caring for people. Those costs get passed on to the rest of us as do costs to the gov't. That's a big part of why we have seat belt, helmet, and the other nanny laws.

FWIW, I've been converted. I'm now an ATGATT guy myself. Funny how a good beatin can change one's perspective on things...
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post #7 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 08:03 PM
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My company's insurance will not cover you if you have an accident on a "Motorcycle OR ATV" and are not wearing a helmet. I see nothing wrong with this I mean why should we have to pay for your stupidity? BUT you should have heard all the Cruiser riders whinnying about it and how it's not fair to take their rights away. No one said they couldn't ride without a helmet just that the company wouldn't pay for them crashing without doing so just go buy you own insurance.

As for me I think not wearing a helmet makes a statement, it says "Look I'm so stupid brain damage couldn't possibly hurt"

Or was that look THEN leap?
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post #8 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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My company's insurance will not cover you if you have an accident on a "Motorcycle OR ATV" and are not wearing a helmet. I see nothing wrong with this I mean why should we have to pay for your stupidity? BUT you should have heard all the Cruiser riders whinnying about it and how it's not fair to take their rights away. No one said they couldn't ride without a helmet just that the company wouldn't pay for them crashing without doing so just go buy you own insurance.

As for me I think not wearing a helmet makes a statement, it says "Look I'm so stupid brain damage couldn't possibly hurt"
I didn't elaborate in the video, but I've always said that a rider should have the choice to not wear a helmet, but I also should have the choice to call them an idiot.
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post #9 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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Hard to tell what's preventable in a MC accident. Pretty sure all the gear on the planet wouldn't have prevented any of my leg injuries (save a few healthy rug burns) in my recent escapade.

Be that as it may, there's more to it than personal responsibility. Hospitals get stuck caring for people. Those costs get passed on to the rest of us as do costs to the gov't. That's a big part of why we have seat belt, helmet, and the other nanny laws.

FWIW, I've been converted. I'm now an ATGATT guy myself. Funny how a good beatin can change one's perspective on things...
Glad you are still here to talk about it, and I'm glad you have geared up, although I am sorry that it took a spill to get you there.
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post #10 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 08:18 PM
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I spent 10 years as a firefighter and you'd NEVER catch me going into a working fire without all my gear, that's a sure fired way to end up DOA. It's not just the fire it's the heat and the poisonous gases given off by all the plastics in the homes today. Full Bunker Gear, boots, hood, gloves, SCBA (air mask) and pass alert. None of this would do much in a full blown collapse or gas exposition but it can keep a FF alive in a flash over and nasty gas/smoke while they put the fire out.

So why would I get on a bike without taking care? No gear is going to save me from a head on with a train I know that but it can take the "Sting" out of a lowside and slide. Gear can only do so much the rest you have to use a little gray matter for. And that's what we try and protect.

Or was that look THEN leap?
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post #11 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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I spent 10 years as a firefighter and you'd NEVER catch me going into a working fire without all my gear, that's a sure fired way to end up DOA. It's not just the fire it's the heat and the poisonous gases given off by all the plastics in the homes today. Full Bunker Gear, boots, hood, gloves, SCBA (air mask) and pass alert. None of this would do much in a full blown collapse or gas exposition but it can keep a FF alive in a flash over and nasty gas/smoke while they put the fire out.

So why would I get on a bike without taking care? No gear is going to save me from a head on with a train I know that but it can take the "Sting" out of a lowside and slide. Gear can only do so much the rest you have to use a little gray matter for. And that's what we try and protect.
You know, that is such a great point, and perspective.
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post #12 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 08:31 PM
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Glad you are still here to talk about it, and I'm glad you have geared up, although I am sorry that it took a spill to get you there.
I always wore the gear when I was going to ride spiritedly (usually), but would take short, easy jaunts to the store or around the country block on warm summer evenings without all the formalities. It was just such a ride that bit me...
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post #13 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by twowheeladdict View Post
I believe folks should have the freedom to choose as long as they are willing to live with the consequences of their decisions.

Don't expect me to feel sorry for you when a preventable injury occurs.

Just like the folks who go boating without their life jackets and then they drown when they are drunk and fall off. We are expected to feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for the folks they left behind because they refused to take a known precaution that would have prevented the drowning.
Beautifully said.
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post #14 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 09:24 PM
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ATGATT is the deal I made with the wife years ago in order to resume riding. It's my way of life now... in July in Florida... even on the three mile ride for milk and bread. It's just become an every day way of life for me.

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post #15 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 09:27 PM
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I have riding pants but usually just wear jeans. For local errands its helmet,gloves,riding shoes and for real short runs tennis shoes.If i get on the freeway at all a riding jacket,helmet,gloves,riding shoes and jeans.

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post #16 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 09:55 PM
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I have riding pants but usually just wear jeans. For local errands its helmet,gloves,riding shoes and for real short runs tennis shoes.If i get on the freeway at all a riding jacket,helmet,gloves,riding shoes and jeans.
I never wear below the ankle shoes when outside. I wear cross training shoes when exercising. Guess out in the country low shoes don't serve much purpose.

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post #17 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by twowheeladdict View Post
I believe folks should have the freedom to choose as long as they are willing to live with the consequences of their decisions.

Don't expect me to feel sorry for you when a preventable injury occurs.

Just like the folks who go boating without their life jackets and then they drown when they are drunk and fall off. We are expected to feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for the folks they left behind because they refused to take a known precaution that would have prevented the drowning.
Agree as well. My problem is that I cannot understand why supposedly mature rational individuals would willingly accept the risks associated with riding sans protective gear. Suppose I'm just not smart enough to figure it out.
The phenomenon seems most apparent among cruiser riders but isn't limited to that genre. On a 35 mile quick round trip to town to buy lobsters today I saw half a dozen Harley riders without a stitch of gear. Not surprising. What was surprising was I also saw two Gold Wing riders wearing nothing. Well, I should say nothing in the way of protective gear.
The moose that wander onto the roads in central Maine don't care how skilled a bike handler might think he (or she) is. Nor are they aware of rights.
Don't believe the constitution specifies that stupidity is a right but it appears there are those who believe it is. I suppose it's akin to "discussing" politics or religion in that a person's position is rarely changed.

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post #18 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
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Agree as well. My problem is that I cannot understand why supposedly mature rational individuals would willingly accept the risks associated with riding sans protective gear. Suppose I'm just not smart enough to figure it out.
The phenomenon seems most apparent among cruiser riders but isn't limited to that genre. On a 35 mile quick round trip to town to buy lobsters today I saw half a dozen Harley riders without a stitch of gear. Not surprising. What was surprising was I also saw two Gold Wing riders wearing nothing. Well, I should say nothing in the way of protective gear.
The moose that wander onto the roads in central Maine don't care how skilled a bike handler might think he (or she) is. Nor are they aware of rights.
Don't believe the constitution specifies that stupidity is a right but it appears there are those who believe it is. I suppose it's akin to "discussing" politics or religion in that a person's position is rarely changed.
Funny thing is, my anti gear buddy in the video is a super smart dude, but will not be swayed when it comes to gear.
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post #19 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 12:11 AM
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I often joke that I'm natgatt 'not all the gear all the time'

In the beginning of the video his friend makes a statement about the decision to give up safety for comfort.

For me motorcycling is all about convenience and freedom; I live in downtown DC and use motorcycles to get everywhere all day long. I always wear boots, gloves and a helmet (snell of course), but never wear any true riding gear.

It's worth noting that in recent years Ive had two pretty narly accidents, and while proper riding gear would have reduced the # of scars it would not have prevented my broken leg or wrist.

Like every choice in life, evaluate the potential consequences and make a decision.

Besides some people just like a little more danger than others...

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post #20 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 02:47 AM
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I often joke that I'm natgatt 'not all the gear all the time'

In the beginning of the video his friend makes a statement about the decision to give up safety for comfort.

For me motorcycling is all about convenience and freedom; I live in downtown DC and use motorcycles to get everywhere all day long. I always wear boots, gloves and a helmet (snell of course), but never wear any true riding gear.

It's worth noting that in recent years Ive had two pretty narly accidents, and while proper riding gear would have reduced the # of scars it would not have prevented my broken leg or wrist.

Like every choice in life, evaluate the potential consequences and make a decision.

Besides some people just like a little more danger than others...
Just curious, why did you need to mention your brand of helmet? Is there something special about it we need to know about? Just curious.

Back on topic. For now, I wear a 3/4 helmet. It's all I have until I get the money together for more gear. Ideally, I would wear a 4-season jacket, summer/winter gloves and a FF/Modular helmet. I haven't owned anything protective for below the waist line yet. I don't mind wearing just a helmet for daily to-from work riding. Sometimes, I'll forgo the helmet if riding a couple blocks. I definitely won't go on a trip until I have the gear I want. Overall, I've never been ATGATT. The lack of proper gear does force me to garage the bike on rainy days.
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