Why are we 'Invisible' out there - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-09-2009, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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Why are we 'Invisible' out there

I came across this article while surfing the net it makes some interesting observations about Cages and why they don't see us.

http://www.helmets.org/invisibl.htm

Food for thought.
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-09-2009, 07:08 PM
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phones


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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-09-2009, 07:13 PM
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Some good ideas. I know that anyone who rides long enough will run into this problem.

No pun intended!
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-09-2009, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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Actually Mrcrappiek I think your right..

This report give cage drivers too much credit.. they are so Cocooned and insulated from the outside world that they deem themselves untouchable.
I have lost count how many times I've had 'them' distracted by being on the phone, or using their GPS's and then pulling out in front of me without looking or looking and still pulling out

Last edited by sambamboo; 09-22-2009 at 02:04 AM.
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-21-2009, 07:53 PM
 
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I got high viz jacket (orange)... I look like a construction cone... the eye catches that
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-21-2009, 07:57 PM
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Actually Mrcrappiek I think your right..

This report give cage drivers too much credit.. they are so Cocooned and insulated from the outside world that they deem themselves untouchable.
I have lost count how many times I've had 'them' detracted by being on the phone, or using their GPS's and then pulling out in front of me without looking or looking and still pulling out
+1 on this! I ride with the attitude that none of them can see me, no matter what Hi Vis stuff I wear. It's saved me a time or two.

regards, Bob
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 09:47 AM
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Ah, "we"?????? As in riders??????


Cages do stupid **** and pull out in front of me the same whether I am riding or driving my 6000 lb pickup truck.

People just don't pay attention while driving. Period!
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 04:14 PM
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Ah, "we"?????? As in riders??????


Cages do stupid **** and pull out in front of me the same whether I am riding or driving my 6000 lb pickup truck.

People just don't pay attention while driving. Period!

EXACTLY! Though, I'm not sure if it's lack of attention. I've had drivers wanting to pull out from a side street, with plenty of room in front of me to do so, but they wait until I'm right up on 'em to pull out! Drives me crazy! Happens all the time, whether I'm in my car or on the bike. They look right at me! WTF People!!!




By the way, not to start another fight, but I've read countless threads like this where "we" as "bikers" refer to "them" as "cagers". I always wonder, do you guys not drive cars?? Do you not have wives, husbands, friends and/or family that drive cars?




I drive as much, if not more than I ride. Sometimes it's hard to see motorcycles. I've had bikers pull up into my blind spot & stay there. I've also had bikers pass me, pull in front of me, then slow to a nice "cruising" speed. It doesn't bother me one bit to pass him right back.

I guess my point is, I don't think of it as an "us against them" issue. They are us & we, them. We are all drivers on the same road. It's more of an individual vs. individual thing. Some people are thoughtful, respectful & deserve the same in return. Some, not so much...






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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 04:15 PM
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+1 on this! I ride with the attitude that none of them can see me, no matter what Hi Vis stuff I wear. It's saved me a time or two.

Me too. But I also drive my car in a similar manner. Aggressive defensive.



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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 05:54 PM
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Some people are thoughtful, respectful & deserve the same in return. Some, not so much...
True. In fact, most car drivers around here, even me, tend to be on our best behavior when we see a motorcycle. I've seen this when riding for the last year. I've been afraid to say it, but "cagers" have been very good around me this first year (except the girl who bumped me at a red light, and the guy who figured a new way to make a left turn in front of my bike, and the old lady who...). Well, I guess it only takes one to make a biker's day!

I use motion to try to be seen, if I see an oncoming car positioning to make a left turn, I weave a little in my lane, and get to the right side of my lane, so the car has more bike to see.

Is the 43% figure accurate, I thought most motorcycle accidents were single vehicle, and half were alcohol-influenced?

When I drove an 18 wheeler, they looked at "preventables". You got a bad mark on your record if it was determined you could have somehow avoided the crash. That's what I do on the bike, do all I can to avoid a crash, at least I think I do, short of not riding.

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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 07:39 PM
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True. In fact, most car drivers around here, even me, tend to be on our best behavior when we see a motorcycle. I've seen this when riding for the last year. I've been afraid to say it, but "cagers" have been very good around me this first year (except the girl who bumped me at a red light, and the guy who figured a new way to make a left turn in front of my bike, and the old lady who...). Well, I guess it only takes one to make a biker's day!

I use motion to try to be seen, if I see an oncoming car positioning to make a left turn, I weave a little in my lane, and get to the right side of my lane, so the car has more bike to see.

Is the 43% figure accurate, I thought most motorcycle accidents were single vehicle, and half were alcohol-influenced?

When I drove an 18 wheeler, they looked at "preventables". You got a bad mark on your record if it was determined you could have somehow avoided the crash. That's what I do on the bike, do all I can to avoid a crash, at least I think I do, short of not riding.

Actually, that's not hard for me to believe. I grew up in WV. The drivers there are so much more polite. Could be a regional thing.



Around here, the further away from San Antonio you go, the better behaved the traffic & less stressful the driving, except IH35 north toward Austin. Actually, IH35 is bad all the way up to Dallas, but who's counting...





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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 07:56 PM
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A long time ago I was a bus driver and I had to take many safety classes and defensive driving classes. One of my instructors talked about how most people do not look for anything when they drive. They recognize familiar patterns and that guides them. Drivers that don't ride motorcycles don't think about them so they don't recognize the pattern. They literally don't see them. As evidence of this the instructor stated that, of the few folks that survive vehicle to TRAIN collisions, the most oft cited reason was "I didn't see the train." If you cant see a train, you are not seeing a motorcycle. Hence the slogan "Start Seeing Motorcycles."

PS. This same instructor also opined that a train is the only vehicle that while moving at cruising speed can stop in its own length. However as the average train is over a mile in length he recommended not testing this stopping ability.

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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 08:18 PM
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A long time ago I was a bus driver and I had to take many safety classes and defensive driving classes. One of my instructors talked about how most people do not look for anything when they drive. They recognize familiar patterns and that guides them. Drivers that don't ride motorcycles don't think about them so they don't recognize the pattern. They literally don't see them. As evidence of this the instructor stated that, of the few folks that survive vehicle to TRAIN collisions, the most oft cited reason was "I didn't see the train." If you cant see a train, you are not seeing a motorcycle. Hence the slogan "Start Seeing Motorcycles."

PS. This same instructor also opined that a train is the only vehicle that while moving at cruising speed can stop in its own length. However as the average train is over a mile in length he recommended not testing this stopping ability.


Very good advice...






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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 08:58 PM
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You can help make yourself visible with extra lights and high viz gear and a bright solid color helmet. I do all of those. But making yourself visible is also about how you position yourself in situations where you could easily be missed. For example:

Riding in the left wheel track positions you so you're more likely visible in both the rear and side view mirrors of the cage in front of you. Remember if you can't see the mirror on the vehicle in front of you, the driver can't see you in the mirror.

If you are traveling and notice a cage lining up for a left turn across your lane, gently dip your bars to one side. This briefly changes the direction your lights are pointing (more so if the lights turn with the bars instead of the frame), creating a flash to people approaching you and hopefully getting the attention of that driver about to cut you off.

See and be seen.


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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 09:18 PM
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+1 on what Bones said!!
Lane position is vital to others visibility of you while traveling. I use the handy flash button on my V to help people, or to remind them that I am there.
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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-23-2009, 02:36 AM
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road position is critical
you need to anticipate that there may be some tw!t about to pull out from a side road
you need togive the cage as much chance as possible of seeing you
but ultimately you have to plan on how to reduce the risk of an incident, after all if there is an collision between a bike and a car, truck, train whatever you can bet that the bike rider will always come off worst.

ultimately its you that has more control of how such a situation develops, because its you on the controls, selecting the speed, the gear, position the attitude of the bike (and attitude of the rider)

play the numbers game, and anticipate what the prat might do, and equally anticipate what might happen on the road you are riding on.

its called building your observation bubble, the further you extend that bubble in front of you the better, but bear in mind the bubble also is behind you and to either side. be aware of who or what is behind you. if someone has suddenly popped into view in your mirror or beside you then you are not using your mirrors enough. given the Vee's riding position have a look over the hedges either side to see if there are vehicles coming to the junction. if you collide with something in the road then virtually without exception you are partially to blame, at least in part and often mostly to blame. yes there are prats who change lanes into you, there are prats who turn across you. so take some responsibility for your own actions and ride defensively.. doesn't mean ride like a grannie it does mean ride with awareness of whats out there and what they might do if they collide with you.
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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-23-2009, 12:29 PM
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I've been riding since 1970. So far the best attention getter is my "Headlight modulator".
I know it pisses some people off but TS, I rather have you mad than me dead. It is very effective for getting the attention of people pulling out of side streets and oncoming left turners. I've noticed marked improvement ( less incidents ) since I installed it. Next is a back-off brake light modulator,

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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 09:02 PM
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How to survive on a motorcycle

Best thing I've ever read on the subject: http://pirateslair.net/SAFETY1.htm
You might not agree with every one of this guy's tips, but as a whole, they are great. Versys appeals to novice riders; if reading this saves even one rider then it's worth posting.


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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 10:39 PM
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Despite our best efforts

This really sucks...Its not bad enough we have to contend with the cell phone idiots, I present to you the "I gota do my nails" killer.

http://kdka.com/national/nail.painti...2.1001944.html

If I new what I was doing, I wouldn't still be working
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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-15-2009, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by lonerockz View Post
A long time ago I was a bus driver and I had to take many safety classes and defensive driving classes. One of my instructors talked about how most people do not look for anything when they drive. They recognize familiar patterns and that guides them. Drivers that don't ride motorcycles don't think about them so they don't recognize the pattern. They literally don't see them. As evidence of this the instructor stated that, of the few folks that survive vehicle to TRAIN collisions, the most oft cited reason was "I didn't see the train." If you cant see a train, you are not seeing a motorcycle. Hence the slogan "Start Seeing Motorcycles."

PS. This same instructor also opined that a train is the only vehicle that while moving at cruising speed can stop in its own length. However as the average train is over a mile in length he recommended not testing this stopping ability.
I agree with all you say Lonerockz, and in addition i have always said that all potential drivers must spend at least one year on a motor cycle / scooter before they are able to complete their driving test.. they would see the problems that we as motorcyclists experience, then hopfully apply it
rant over..
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