Sprocket info...true or not? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-01-2009, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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Sprocket info...true or not?

I researched this modification in the past, and many say to never use odd/odd or even/even tooth sprockets front and rear as it accelerates wear drasticly.this due to the fact that the same links on the chain will continue to land between the same two teeth on the sprockets more often. I belive this is true, most the bikes I've owned came stock odd/even or vice-versa.
FYI
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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-01-2009, 08:40 PM
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This sounds might weird to me. The ratio between front and rear has nothing to do with which tooth lands in which link. The ratio of teeth to link determines which link the tooth will land in. Stock V has 15/46 with 114 links (might be 113). Here is some series' of the link that the first tooth will land in for the various sizes of V sprockets.

Code:
Sprocket
Teeth
15	1	16	31	46	61	76	91	106	7	22	37	52	67	82	97	112	13	28	43	58	73	88	103	4	19	34
16	1	17	33	49	65	81	97	113	15	31	47	63	79	95	111	13	29	45	61	77	93	109	11	27	43	59
46	1	47	93	25	71	3	49	95	27	73	5	51	97	29	75	7	53	99	31	77	9	55	101	33	79	11
43	1	44	87	16	59	102	31	74	3	46	89	18	61	104	33	76	5	48	91	20	63	106	35	78	7	50
40	1	41	81	7	47	87	13	53	93	19	59	99	25	65	105	31	71	111	37	77	3	43	83	9	49	89
Now what might be bad would be a sprocket to link ratio that was an even divisor. For example a 120 link chain and a 40 tooth sprocket would have this series:

1, 41, 81, 1, 41, 81...

I could see where if you had a bent tooth that would destroy a specific link.

At 114 teeth that means avoid 2, 19, 38 and 57 tooth sprockets. If it is 113 then that is a prime number and has no divisors.

Steve

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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-01-2009, 08:45 PM
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wow

i might have to think about this for awhile
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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-01-2009, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lonerockz View Post
This sounds might weird to me. The ratio between front and rear has nothing to do with which tooth lands in which link. The ratio of teeth to link determines which link the tooth will land in. Stock V has 15/46 with 114 links (might be 113). Here is some series' of the link that the first tooth will land in for the various sizes of V sprockets.

Code:
Sprocket
Teeth
15	1	16	31	46	61	76	91	106	7	22	37	52	67	82	97	112	13	28	43	58	73	88	103	4	19	34
16	1	17	33	49	65	81	97	113	15	31	47	63	79	95	111	13	29	45	61	77	93	109	11	27	43	59
46	1	47	93	25	71	3	49	95	27	73	5	51	97	29	75	7	53	99	31	77	9	55	101	33	79	11
43	1	44	87	16	59	102	31	74	3	46	89	18	61	104	33	76	5	48	91	20	63	106	35	78	7	50
40	1	41	81	7	47	87	13	53	93	19	59	99	25	65	105	31	71	111	37	77	3	43	83	9	49	89
Now what might be bad would be a sprocket to link ratio that was an even divisor. For example a 120 link chain and a 40 tooth sprocket would have this series:

1, 41, 81, 1, 41, 81...

I could see where if you had a bent tooth that would destroy a specific link.

At 114 teeth that means avoid 2, 19, 38 and 57 tooth sprockets. If it is 113 then that is a prime number and has no divisors.
I just put a 16t front sprocket with the stock 46t rear I kept the stock chain, did I mess anything up?
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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-01-2009, 10:14 PM
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Nick, I don't think so. The explanation is complex, but as I said the only ones I would worry about are not real sprocket sizes. 2, 19, 38 & 57 teeth.

Steve

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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-01-2009, 10:25 PM
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WHEW Nick
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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 12:06 AM
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It's not the odd/odd or even/even combination you have to avoid. You want to avoid combinations of CS/rear sprockets that result in a ratio that is an integer (whole number), e.g. 15/45, 14/42, 17/34, etc., etc.. The reasoning you were given is correct, if the ratio is an integer, the same link will hit a front tooth and the same 2 or 3 teeth in the rear every revolution. This could accelerate the wear of the teeth that come in contact with a link that is having an issue. The thing to remember is that it wont prevent the wear if you have a bad link/chain, but it will prevent one specific link from wearing unevenly compared to the rest.

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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 02:43 AM
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Hmmm. With my 15/45 setup, maybe I'll rotate my rear sprocket ahead by a tooth once in a while when I adjust or store it... It's fine so far though.
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustavo View Post
It's not the odd/odd or even/even combination you have to avoid. You want to avoid combinations of CS/rear sprockets that result in a ratio that is an integer (whole number), e.g. 15/45, 14/42, 17/34, etc., etc.. The reasoning you were given is correct, if the ratio is an integer, the same link will hit a front tooth and the same 2 or 3 teeth in the rear every revolution.
Gustavo, that only works if the number of links in the chain is also a multiple of the number of teeth on the sprockets....for example, 15/45 with a 90 link chain. If you went up to a 105 link chain, you'd only be hitting the same tooth/link on the front sprocket every revolution. The rear wouldn't be a problem. Running 15/45 with a 114 link chain isn't an issue for either sprocket. The ratio you want to avoid is an integer division of teeth to links.....sprocket to sprocket doesn't mean a thing.

Last edited by MN_Smurf; 09-02-2009 at 08:43 AM.
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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MN_Smurf View Post
that only works if the number of links in the chain is also a multiple of the number of teeth on the sprockets....for example, 15/45 with a 90 link chain. If you went up to a 105 link chain, you'd only be hitting the same tooth/link on the front sprocket every revolution. The rear wouldn't be a problem.
Thanks for setting it straight.

Gustavo


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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 12:34 PM
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I don't understand why any of this would matter as long as both sprockets and the chain are matched.

Steve

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Sounds like a challenge to me!

Now I have four!
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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sharrison56 View Post
I don't understand why any of this would matter as long as both sprockets and the chain are matched.

So lets say that you had a sprocket that was a multiple of the chain links. Like a 90 link chain and a 15 tooth sprocket. In that case the sprocket teeth always land on the same link. So tooth 1 hits links 1, 16, 31, 46, 61, 76 and then back to link 1, 16, 31, etc. So on this chain and sprocket combo, the tooth never varies what links it hits. Now lets say you bend the tooth a little by getting a rock thrown into the chain. Now this tooth is wearing its links more than the other teeth. In a normal setup the tooth sees all links. They all get equally beat up by this bad tooth, but on our 15 tooth/90 link combo that bad tooth hits only 6 links. Those 6 links are going to wear a lot worse than the other 84 links. Probably leading to premature chain failure.

Make sense?

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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 03:31 PM
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I'm sorry fellas, but this sounds a little like junk science to me. I would have to see solid reports done by somebody showing how much difference it makes in chain/sprocket life on a variety of bikes. I can't see it making THAT much of a difference in real life. If it did, I'm sure the chain/sprocket manufacturers would be all over this.

I think this would be a good one for Mythbusters!



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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 03:38 PM
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I makes sense in the situation where you have a damaged link or tooth, but other than that all of the links and teeth are still doing the same amount of work.

Steve

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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 03:39 PM
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I wouldn't say junk science, just not useful science. How many bikes have a chain sprocket combo that are multiples? As I pointed out on the V with its 114 link chain you would need some weird sprockets for this to be an issue. And even then you need a bent sprocket. So as you point out not an issue in the real world.

Steve

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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lonerockz View Post
this sounds might weird to me. The ratio between front and rear has nothing to do with which tooth lands in which link. The ratio of teeth to link determines which link the tooth will land in. Stock v has 15/46 with 114 links (might be 113). Here is some series' of the link that the first tooth will land in for the various sizes of v sprockets.

Code:
sprocket
teeth
15	1	16	31	46	61	76	91	106	7	22	37	52	67	82	97	112	13	28	43	58	73	88	103	4	19	34
16	1	17	33	49	65	81	97	113	15	31	47	63	79	95	111	13	29	45	61	77	93	109	11	27	43	59
46	1	47	93	25	71	3	49	95	27	73	5	51	97	29	75	7	53	99	31	77	9	55	101	33	79	11
43	1	44	87	16	59	102	31	74	3	46	89	18	61	104	33	76	5	48	91	20	63	106	35	78	7	50
40	1	41	81	7	47	87	13	53	93	19	59	99	25	65	105	31	71	111	37	77	3	43	83	9	49	89
now what might be bad would be a sprocket to link ratio that was an even divisor. For example a 120 link chain and a 40 tooth sprocket would have this series:

1, 41, 81, 1, 41, 81...

I could see where if you had a bent tooth that would destroy a specific link.

At 114 teeth that means avoid 2, 19, 38 and 57 tooth sprockets. If it is 113 then that is a prime number and has no divisors.
i hate rocket science!:
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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 08:30 PM
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i hate rocket science!:
Rocket science or sprocket science???







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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 08:35 PM
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Yeah, it all makes sense now. No need to rotate my excellent 15/45 setup.... My even 16T countershaft sprocket, albeit damper-less, did have deep wear grooves from having the chain links always rubbing down on the same sections, leaving definite chain link impressions on its side.

Last edited by invader; 09-02-2009 at 08:43 PM.
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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-03-2009, 09:47 AM
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I understand it, I just think someone has WAY too much time to over think things. I don't think it will make THAT much of a difference in the life of the chain or sprockets. I really believe the chain will have stretched beyond it useful life and need replacing anyway before this would come into play.

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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-03-2009, 10:13 AM
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It would take a super duper rock to damage a steel sprocket and a modern "O" or "X" ring chain. Dirt bikes have been crushing rocks for years.

This is useless science. So what if the same tooth hits the same links? If neither is damaged, then that would make the chain/sprocket last much longer based on yalls reasoning.

In almost 6 years of riding, I have never seen a sprocket tooth bend. I have seen quit a few break, and a few get worn down from normal use. In neither case did this shorten the life of the chain.

Yall need to ride more, and spend less time making spreadsheets.
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