i need more help! - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 11:44 PM Thread Starter
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i need more help!

i just got some member help with my 2014, the abs light was on. but my bigger problem is with my 09. leaving a gas station last month after putting in 4.5 gals, i took it up to about 7500 rpm's in third and the engine seriously fell on it's face. back fired and died. it started up and i was able to limp it back to the station but it barely ran. i got it home with the help of a friend, and suspecting bad fuel, i drained the tank into a clean white bucket. no sign of water or contaminents. since then i have put in new plugs and a new fuel pump. it still wont run if i take it up to 7000 rpm's to shift. it acts like it is starved for fuel. any ideas?
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 12:00 AM
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Check for high exhaust back pressure. If it has a catalyst, it may be plugged.

The quickest way I can think of right now to check is to loosen the exhaust pipes from the engine and try running it. You don't want to do this for very long, though.

If it runs quite a lot better, you can isolate it by putting the exhaust back together at the engine and removing various parts downstream until you find the problem.

I believe a full race exhaust is quite a bit cheaper than a catalyst, but do your own research. Also, if you live in NY or CA, going non-catalyst may be a bad idea.

Also, check your running voltage. If it goes low, fuel pressure can drop, but spark output can drop as well. But, that falling on its face thing is almost always fuel or exhaust.

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 12:07 AM
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You may be pushing too high the shifting RPM and have you done this before.

Maximum torque: 44.9 lb/ft @6,800 rpm - 09 spec.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
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i have changed exhaust since this problem started, so i don't think that is the probbem. i usually don't shift that high. but of course over the years i have many times.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 12:32 AM
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Than , you will need to check fuel / ignition related matters as what 52 Deg said. BTW the way, does the bike run normal if you don,t push the RPM on shift.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 06:47 AM
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Fuel Pump

The first thing I would suspect is the fuel pump. You put 4.5 gallons in, it is possible to have damaged the fuel pump, it is cooled by the fuel. Beyond that I would next be checking the TPS and sub throttle sensor, and measuring VDC according to the manual. If it is the fuel pump, RPM shouldn't be a factor, doing heavy acceleration at 5500 to 6000 RPM in 6th gear should bog down. Next on the list is crankshaft position sensor, checking using the manual, corrosion has been a problem on electrical connections on 07 MK-1 models. Do you get any malfunction lights on?
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 01:01 AM Thread Starter
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i have put a new fuel pump on. no change. and i don't have any warning lights on. how do i check the throttle position sensor?
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 01:14 AM
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To properly test the tps, you need an oscilloscope. If you don't have one, you can try using a voltmeter set to 10vdc and connect to the output wire ard ground. Actuate the throttle slowly with the key on and watch for an extremely smooth voltage increase. If you find a spot with a voltage dip, the tps is very likely bad.

Here's the thing... It's probably not the tps. I'd almost be willing to put money on fuel pressure. That is, again, if you no longer have a catalytic converter.

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 03:44 PM
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TPS Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by marc View Post
i have put a new fuel pump on. no change. and i don't have any warning lights on. how do i check the throttle position sensor?
https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...-2-mk-3-a.html



I have a extensive thread on this. You need a extremely accurate digital meter , preferably with a 2 decimal place reading ability and the Kawasaki harness . The part in 52Degrees mentioned about dipping is accurate and something I would look for when having inverter misfire/ hard tripping, some older inverters couldn't run without a signal, a spot where the wiper made contact on the wire wound resistor could get fouled with dirt / air contamination. There is a extensive test in the service manual, not all of those tests are with the key on. FYI that harness is about $20 and the tests are main and sub throttle position sensors .

I also mentioned the crankshaft position sensor as to corrosion. I still would put my money on either the main or sub sensor , one of those tests is the supply voltage, this is a 5 VDC operating system much like a USB power, 2015 on, all the sensors are powered by 5 VDC .

That is why I suggested checking that area.Also when I say accurate meter, use alligators, when measuring ohms , pay attention it says with power off, not that it matters but if you have a REL on your meter, I think the range is 10k ohms for the test, you press REL and short your leads out, the meter subtracts the value of resistance of the leads, however to be honest, the most your leads should be is 2 ohms, so I doubt you would see a difference.

Use alligators and you may need to read the instructions in the manual several times to grasp the method, I have explained that in my post and actually added coloured tape to my harness as their explanation in the manual suffers from translation problems into English.

I have updated that thread and also found my settings for reference.
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Last edited by onewizard; 09-08-2019 at 04:24 PM.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 10:59 PM Thread Starter
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i took this bike for a short ride today. it runs fine for about a mile and then when it is warm it cuts out, backfires and dies. but i pull in the clutch as im coasting and it starts right up again. then i limped it home in 1st gear, with it cutting out and dieing all the way. when i pulled in to the garage it would sit there and idle just fine. but it seemed to be very hot.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 11:41 PM
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OK, that's quite a bit different than "falling on its face"...

Is he looking for spark issues for the issues you described in your last post. Something along the lines of a crank sensor or perhaps a map or mass airflow sensor if it has them. I'm not sure without the factory manual in front of me.

However, running hot can still be a lean condition.

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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 01:54 AM
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I was thinking more about this on my ride home from work... Does your 650 have a single coil or dual? If it's a single, where both cylinders fire at the same time, I'd check spark output after the bike has warmed up. It's easily within the realm of possibility to have an intermittent open in a coil pack only when warm. That could account for most of your symptoms.

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 52Degrees View Post
I was thinking more about this on my ride home from work... Does your 650 have a single coil or dual? If it's a single, where both cylinders fire at the same time, I'd check spark output after the bike has warmed up. It's easily within the realm of possibility to have an intermittent open in a coil pack only when warm. That could account for most of your symptoms.
Now we have heat involved, with the back firing, the very first thing is I would pull the stick coils, both are driven by the ECU, MK-1 and MK-2 did have problems with the Denso coils cracking.
https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...nso+stick+coil
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onewizard View Post
Now we have heat involved, with the back firing, the very first thing is I would pull the stick coils, both are driven by the ECU, MK-1 and MK-2 did have problems with the Denso coils cracking.

https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...nso+stick+coil
Ah, coil over plug... Good to know.

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 11:14 PM Thread Starter
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so, do you guys think i might have a cracked coil?and if so, would i be able to see the crack?
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-10-2019, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marc View Post
so, do you guys think i might have a cracked coil?and if so, would i be able to see the crack?
You may see some crack,s but very much doubt it. My 09 coils are still good as new, but I did replace my BMW 3 series coils and from visual look, nothing is wrong , but did not get the required voltage when firing.
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-10-2019, 12:33 AM
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You probably won't see any visible defects. Don't replace anything without verifying it doesn't work.

You need to test it. Test it warm, with a spark gap tool and a voltmeter.
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