Help, what happened - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2017, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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Help, what happened

I was riding home from about two hours away when I heard some rattling noise.
After parking the bike I found this popped out with missing screws....Please help me to understand what happened and what it is going to take to get it fixed. Is it an easy fix, expensive?
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Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.


Last edited by TEK; 11-01-2017 at 12:45 PM. Reason: more clarification
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2017, 12:56 PM
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That is your cam chain tensioner.

Since you don't know what it is, I have to assume you probably don't have the tools or expertise to re-install and properly adjust it.

Do not start or ride it. Get a trailer or truck and take it to a shop for them to fix.

Good luck.

Hey just saw your Proverbs 3:5 moniker. So from one brother to another I will now give you my interpretation for wisdom on the bike issue.

Trust in the Local Kawasaki Shop with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own mechanical aptitude. In all thy ways acknowledge their mechanic, and he shall direct thy repairs.

Cookin Wid Gas

2015 V-650 of course it's green...it's a Kazawalski.

Last edited by hawkerjet; 11-01-2017 at 12:59 PM.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2017, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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internal engine chain? why would it pop out? Do you think that it has caused damage.
Have tools and could fix it is just finding the time to do so, also it's probably a huge job just getting to it.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2017, 01:08 PM
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As hawkerjet said that is the timing chain tensioner. DO NOT CRANK THE ENGINE If you do there is a good chance the timing chain could jump a tooth causing the timing to be off, which could result in valve damage and worse which =$$$$
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2017, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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Can I just replace lost bolts and bolt it back in and be done with it?

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2017, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEK View Post
Can I just replace lost bolts and bolt it back in and be done with it?
There is a significant chance the valve timing will be off. You need to remove the cam cover and check this before installing tensioner. Since the valve cover is off you might as well check and adjust valve clearance at the same time. Running or cranking over the engine with valve timing off can damage it, if timing is off much. Any adjustment in valve clearance will require a vacuum sync after.

You also need to "reset" the tensioner before installing.

Also change oil and filter as this may have allowed ingress of contaminates.

I have no idea how this could have come off as it has two large bolts holding it in place. Who last worked on the bike? Warranty if it is within warranty period. I would loctite these down.

Last edited by twowheels; 11-01-2017 at 03:33 PM.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2017, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEK View Post
Can I just replace lost bolts and bolt it back in and be done with it?
NO!

There is a WARNING in the SERVICE MANUAL that says:

"Do not turn over the crankshaft while the tensioner is removed." which is EXACTLY the position you are in, what w/ it 'backed'out' when the bolts fell out.

Here it talks about those TWO missing bolts JUST being LOOSE:

"...Once the bolts are loosened, the tensioner MUST be removed and RESET as descibed in "Camshaft Chain Tensioner Installation."..."

Anything other than what I wrote WILL BE very expensive to fix!!!!


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Last edited by fasteddiecopeman; 11-01-2017 at 05:11 PM.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2017, 05:40 PM
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Being as TEK stated that he was ridding the bike when he heard the rattling sound, looking down, noticed the tensioner had fallen out, makes it a certain fact that the engine turned over while the tensioner was out. Actually, it was spinning several thousand times a minute. I would say it would be taking a big risk to just reset the tensioner, poke it back in, and replace the bolts using locktite. But then I've known people that are always lucky.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2017, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by twowheels View Post
There is a significant chance the valve timing will be off. You need to remove the cam cover and check this before installing tensioner. Since the valve cover is off you might as well check and adjust valve clearance at the same time. Running or cranking over the engine with valve timing off can damage it, if timing is off much. Any adjustment in valve clearance will require a vacuum sync after.

You also need to "reset" the tensioner before installing.

Also change oil and filter as this may have allowed ingress of contaminates.

I have no idea how this could have come off as it has two large bolts holding it in place. Who last worked on the bike? Warranty if it is within warranty period. I would loctite these down.
There is a step by step on this forum , the question is do you have the tools and the time and understanding to do this work.
I have a post using inline photos for the 2015, it applies to your 2013 as to 95% of the job, I have a tools needed as well as the second thread I have attached. To answer your question, you are at great risk of damaging something, even if you reset the cam chain tensioner and put in new bolts, in fact the damage may already be done. So this is what I would do in a situation like yours. Reset the Cam tensioner, get new bolts, insert it and snug the bolts. You then need to follow the How To thread on this with additional safeguards. To pay for this at a dealer expect $400 to $600 . Before I explain what needs to be done and the correct steps, I need a answer from you after you view either of these links, the first is my 2015 post. I don't want to go to any length of explanation unless you intend to try this.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...onewizard.html

Here is a second post for 2007 to 2014

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...djustment.html
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2017, 08:53 PM
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What the original poster and I really want to know is how can that tensioner just pop out?

Has the bike been worked on in the past? Are you the original owner? I have never ever heard of a tensioner just popping out, ever.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2017, 07:30 AM
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In 40+ years of motorcycling I've never once heard of a cam chain tensioner falling off like that. Weird.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2017, 09:37 AM
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Something Like Cracked Swingarm

This thread is heading towards a former member that claimed Kawasaki made a defective swing arm and wanted members to get on board to support him, turns out he damaged the swing arm while trying to remove the counter sprocket.

So there are several members here suggesting something amiss , I am siding with the other members as several problems with what happened.

The bolts are locktited in place, torqued and usually extremely hard to loosen. The bolts are only ever removed when doing a valve shim check and clearances are out of speck, I highlighted this because they are removed only if shim's need to be changed.
The second problem is the tensioner is under a certain amount of pressure and to have it come out on it's own would require some unique conditions, since if you would read the procedure of installing the cam tensioner, several members had great difficulty in getting the tensioner in far enough to get the bolts to grab some threads, keep in mindhow difficult it is to loosen a bolt under outward force tension, also we are talking 2 bolts able to turn out on there own. The last thing is the loctite usually is retained on the threads and generally doesn't need to be reapplied, hence the dry locitite that is out on the market.

The only way I could see this happening is if oil got on the threads, someone did a valve shim check and didn't torque the bolts, the cam chain is stretched to the point that, while running the tensioner is at it's maximum extension, with no outward pressure, once the bolts came out, just the fact of centrifugal force in running pushed it out.
We are all here to help,like I said before, very expensive, in fact it may be cheaper to look at another used bike, sound extreme? If there is damage to the motor, expect about $2000 to fix it minimum, resetting the tensioner and installing new bolts may work, but I would never do that to my bike, even if I was in the middle of nowhere.

OK , I went back several posts, you had a dealer replace your chain and sprockets, clip came off and damaged the gear box, covered by the dealer, first it should have been a rivet link, second, in all my over 40 years of riding have I had a dealer replace a chain for me, all my bikes were chain driven, it is something that you learn as a kid riding a bicycle, then mountain bike riding, like I said never ever had a chain changed by someone other than me.

I think whatever happened it is beyond your ability to correct.


Last edited by onewizard; 11-02-2017 at 10:07 AM.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2017, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
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I am the original owner. I had my local shop put a new chain on, as I was too busy and they put a clip on masterlink on to which it came of and cracked my engine case. long story short the fixed it for free after some arguing. It has been one summer later and this tensioner pooped out thing happens....They also lost my seat while it was there and had to buy me a new one. I will never go there again. http://www.freeridepowersports.com/

Backstory
http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ml#post1153530

That being said, Freeride hacks said upon picking it up would only warranty the work for six months.

What would you do?

After looking at Onewizards links I feel I am not capable enough to do the work.

I now do all my own sprocket and chain work because of the above.

Thank you to all for the imput!

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2017, 10:25 AM
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Wow that sucks! I would never go back to that dealer for anything. Maybe you can find another shop or independent mechanic? Sometimes you can get lucky and find one on craigslist in the motorcycle section. Good luck dude.

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2017, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by twowheeladdict View Post
What the original poster and I really want to know is how can that tensioner just pop out?

Has the bike been worked on in the past? Are you the original owner? I have never ever heard of a tensioner just popping out, ever.
It's obvious to me that WHOEVER worked on it (checking the valves, or...?) did NOT tighten the two bolts (that attach the tensioner to the engine) PROPERLY!

PLUS - a "walk-around-check" prior to riding, sometime, would have indicated the problem earlier.

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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2017, 03:08 PM
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i think if i saw that on my bike id **** myself.... ive been screwed over by a shop before (the long tail of the ATK VS viscus cycle) in the end i lost and got ****ed over. i hope you find a good shop (or local who knows there stuff) or you get the courage to do it yourself,

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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-03-2017, 12:13 AM
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I am the original owner. I had my local shop put a new chain on, as I was too busy and they put a clip on masterlink on to which it came of and cracked my engine case. long story short the fixed it for free after some arguing. It has been one summer later and this tensioner pooped out thing happens....They also lost my seat while it was there and had to buy me a new one. I will never go there again. http://www.freeridepowersports.com/

Backstory
http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ml#post1153530


What would you do?

After looking at Onewizards links I feel I am not capable enough to do the work.

I now do all my own sprocket and chain work because of the above.

Thank you to all for the imput!
First , most of the members that have commented have done a Valve Shim check many times, twice for me, and that is why I posted some critical steps that are lacking in the Service Manual. The most expensive part is removing and installing the plastic and various parts getting to the valve cover, the actual valve shim would be 33% of the job. Both threads have a list of tools required, check that out, the service manual in the paper form would be good but you can print the pages needed from this forum. I am suggesting to go over the list of tools and post what you don't have. I think if you are doing your own chain now , with a little guidance you could do this.I would take a guess that the tools required are about $200. Check the list and post what you don't have, of all the tools, the 1/4 inch drive torque wrench, go no go feeler gauges and precision micrometers are top of the list, Carbtune vacuum gauges aren't needed for this service but are the next step upon completion of the valve shim, and could be used weeks after completion as it takes upwards of 3 weeks to get them.

Since this is a big jump from changing a chain, I will suggest a few extra steps. This may sound crazy, but I have a stock pile of Folgers coffee cans, been using them for over 30 years at work while doing large inverters. I use painters green tape sometimes to label the cans and have a pad of paper for notes and a camera. For instance, I would put all the mounting bolts for the cowling in one can, as you are removing the bolts pay attention and look for bolts that are longer or shorter than the majority and note this on paper, stick the note in the can, put the lid on and carry on.

Also have some brake cleaner spray handy, the cam chain tensioner bolts and threads and cam cap bolts and threads need to be free of oil, do not throw these bolts in the valve cover that may have oil on it, keep these bolts clean and free of oil, same for the threads, if unsure, take a shot of brake cleaner in the threads before reassembly. The reason for this is dry torque is the value you use, if there is oil on the threads, this would be wet torque, which is about 25% less https://www.fastenal.com/en/83/torque-calculator

When you start taking the gas tank off and air box, take several close up photos showing the routing of wires and vent tubes, pay attention to the location of the fuel pump wiring and other routing. I use my phone camera, the order of the photos is the order it came apart in. For someone who has never done this, allow about 4 to 5 hours to get to the valve cover, stop and come back the next day, the furthest you should go is access to the valve cover. Next day plan on getting the valve cover off and doing the valve shim, my suggestion is to follow my modification to the vacuum lines and buy 3 feet of line and get 2 plugs for the line, this allows checking vacuum next time without removing anything. Or checking vacuum sync 2 or 3 weeks later when you have the gauges.The 3rd day you test it and put the plastic back together.

Short version of your first step once you have all the tools, all the missing bolts, vacuum lines etc.:
Reset the cam chain tensioner , pay attention as it can go in two ways, the right way or wrong way, snug up the bolts AT NO TIME DO YOU ATTEMPT TO START THE MOTOR OR TURN THE CRANKSHAFT. Once you reach the step of checking clearances, you are going to loosen all the cam cap bolts, backing them out fully ,then turning in so 3 threads / 3 turns of the bolts are holding the cam caps. You are going to use a breaker bar and socket to turn the crankshaft clockwise ,over by hand to the valve timing position 2 over T very slowly

My post number 8 is key to the start of fixing your problem http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/1428410-post8.html


The manual has better close up photos, the purpose of loosening the cam cap bolts is to prevent possible damage, it may be too late, let's hope not, verify that the timing marks are correct, if not post some pictures, you may need to move one link. Once we establish the correct timing position, the bolts for the cam caps get snugged up following the manual cross tightening pattern, we then go back to the start and measure the valves, since you are already in position for cylinder 2 measure the valves, there is a PDF form I posted that you can print several copies of for noting measurements. If your valve clearances are out of spec, follow my procedure, with the crankshaft at the 2T position from start to finish .
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