The Problem with LSL Frame Sliders - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-18-2012, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation The Problem with LSL Frame Sliders

Hey Everyone, ...this post was originally deleted by Riders Discount, because I had unknowingly infringed on their intellectual property by posting this on their LSL Frame Slider sale page. Sorry Riders Discount, wasn't trying to dog anyone. I was simply trying to help fellow riders out.

Now, to clarify the whole issue with LSL Frame Sliders on the Versys California Edition with smog. The LSL's can be made to fit the California Edition Versys. The problem is that the L/H side fails to be functional. The R/H side frame slider is fine, but (and a big BUT here), the L/H side frame slider is simply not long enough (even with the included spacers). Lay the bike on it's R/H side, and the frame slider works as advertised. However, lay the bike on it's L/H side, and you'll ruin your fairings.

That being said, I have found what I consider to be the best setup in my humble opinion for anyone here in Caly with a smogged Versys. The solution is from a company out of Dallas, TX (USA) known as T-Rex Racing, Inc. These guys provide phenomenal customer service, and the frame sliders are not only ACTUALLY functional, but half the cost of LSL's!

If anyone would like to see pics of my lady (Versys), or, if you have any specific questions, just PM me. I hope this helps clarify the on going discussion about the LSL's and the Caly edition Versys both here, and on Riders Discount's thread.

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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-18-2012, 10:41 PM
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So the L/H side doesn't extend past the bulge-out plastic that covers the evap canister and smog stuff? Is that the issue?

If so, that makes sense because I've looked at the photos in that thread as well as the mounting instructions for those sliders (which look like the base mounts are top notch) and couldn't see why it wouldn't work for a 2010+ Calif model.

You can also just post photos right into this thread if you wish. Thanks!

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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-19-2012, 12:03 AM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up T-Rex Racing on my 2010 Caly Edition

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Originally Posted by Tigerpawed View Post
So the L/H side doesn't extend past the bulge-out plastic that covers the evap canister and smog stuff? Is that the issue?

If so, that makes sense because I've looked at the photos in that thread as well as the mounting instructions for those sliders (which look like the base mounts are top notch) and couldn't see why it wouldn't work for a 2010+ Calif model.

You can also just post photos right into this thread if you wish. Thanks!
Exactly Tigerpawed! The set I ordered and received barely set flush with the smog canister and the L/H radiator fairing. If you used the included spacers to push it out, there wasn't enough threads left coming through the engine mount to properly torque the bolt. Hence, it was non-functional for its designed purpose. Here are a few pics I took of my 2010 Caly edition with T-Rex Racing sliders:





These frame sliders serve there intended function and purpose. Not only that, they are half the cost of a set of LSL's! I don't knee drag my Versys. I tour on it. So, I mainly use these in case the bike drops when parked in unforeseen circumstances, or (knock on wood), in case I go down accidentally.

When I first tried the LSL's back in June of 2010, they cost me $130US. The T-Rex Racing sliders cost me $69.95US shipped. Unless the LSL's have been modified in the last two years, I don't see the value in the expense. When mine arrived back in June of 2010, the pucs were nice, but the milling on the aluminum definitely didn't look German made. The edges weren't even burnished (I use to be an airframes mechanic), nor were the surface areas smooth. Bottom line, for the function I need, I haven't found anything that beats the T-Rex Racing sliders. Hope all of this helps

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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-19-2012, 05:59 AM
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So how hard is it to install these? Are any instructions included?
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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-19-2012, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyLee View Post
(I use to be an airframes mechanic), Bottom line, for the function I need, I haven't found anything that beats the T-Rex Racing sliders. Hope all of this helps
BTW, I used to be an airframes mechanic too. USN, AMS, worked on F-14's in the early 90's.

Last edited by Capn Kirk; 05-19-2012 at 07:54 AM. Reason: Removed Photo Request, I have Piaa Sports Horns in that spot.
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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-19-2012, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Installation is EASY

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So how hard is it to install these? Are any instructions included?
Hey ScottS, ...YES! ...they are EASY to install. Heads up though, you do need a torque wrench. These are attached at the front engine mounting bolts. You'll receive replacement engine mounting bolts (with added length), to accomodate the add-on. I believe the torque on these bolts are 32-foot pounds. However, I've gone ahead and attached a .PDF file of the 2010-2011 Service Manual in case you didn't have it. The torques are in it

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BTW, I used to be an airframes mechanic too. USN, AMS, worked on F-14's in the early 90's.
The Navy eh Capn Kirk. Let's see, F-14's, ...then you had to see some sea service. So it must be safe to assume you are a brother 'Shellback'

I spent 10-years of active duty in the Marine Corps. Rotary wing, ...you know, ...the whole beat the air into submission thing...hahaha I was in from the mid 80's to the mid 90's myself. Served nearly a year aboard the U.S.S Peleliu off the coast of Somalia back in '94.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf VERSYS 2010-2011 SERVICE MANUAL.pdf (14.73 MB, 121 views)

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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-19-2012, 11:06 AM
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Hey TommyLee,
Thanks much for the info and the service manual. Much appreciated. Looks like the T-Rex sliders should work for me.

Scott

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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-19-2012, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Glad to help

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Hey TommyLee,
Thanks much for the info and the service manual. Much appreciated. Looks like the T-Rex sliders should work for me.

Scott
No problem Scott, ...your welcome. Glad to help a fellow Versys rider!

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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-19-2012, 04:45 PM
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The Navy eh Capn Kirk. Let's see, F-14's, ...then you had to see some sea service. So it must be safe to assume you are a brother 'Shellback'

I spent 10-years of active duty in the Marine Corps. Rotary wing, ...you know, ...the whole beat the air into submission thing...hahaha I was in from the mid 80's to the mid 90's myself. Served nearly a year aboard the U.S.S Peleliu off the coast of Somalia back in '94.
Hey Tommy, that's great! Thank you for your service I was stationed at Oceana in VA Beach attached to the VF-14 Tophatters (Now VFA-14 flying F-18 Hornets). I deployed for two Red Sea Cruises aboard the JFK, the first during Desert Shield/Storm and the second a year and a half later.

I flew in an H-53 once, man that was a beast! What helo's did you service?

(sorry to the OP for the hijack)
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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-19-2012, 06:24 PM
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Looks like it could break something in a simple tip over. I'd hate to crash with those.

IIRC R&G sliders are supported by a frame rail. Look much better. more expensive too.

Not sure why you're so down on LSL sliders specifically for a CA model. If the canister cover is in the way, you can trim it. If they're good enough for a 49-state model, why not for the CA model--unless the canister itself were in the way? If you don't think they're good enough for either, no problem. I can't see how they'd be worse than the ones in your picture.

If I were buying sliders I'd prolly get LSL or R&G. I have engine guards instead. Also "not compatible" with a CA model, but they fit mine just fine. No interference with the canister cover, and no increased vibration.
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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-19-2012, 07:20 PM
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I think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that he's saying that the LSL slider on the L/H side doesn't stick out far enough, so the CA cover would be damaged in a tipover or slide. It's been a few months since I've had that cover off, but it's probably safe to say that the reason it bulges out is because of all the emissions crap underneath it. I guess if you're willing to grind that stuff down in a slide, then the LSL's would work. (Some would argue that you can just remove all that crap anyways...very tempting!)

I agree the LSL's look like they have better base mounts - more sturdy and (it appears, please correct me if wrong) not dependent on one bolt. I'm leaning towards them and figuring that if the emissions crap gets ground down, then oh well. After messing with the Givi engine guards that didn't fit (factory error, thread on here somewhere), I thought they were heavy and unnecessary for a 95% street bike. YMMV, of course.

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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-19-2012, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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Post Thanks for your service as well!

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Hey Tommy, that's great! Thank you for your service I was stationed at Oceana in VA Beach attached to the VF-14 Tophatters (Now VFA-14 flying F-18 Hornets). I deployed for two Red Sea Cruises aboard the JFK, the first during Desert Shield/Storm and the second a year and a half later.

I flew in an H-53 once, man that was a beast! What helo's did you service?

(sorry to the OP for the hijack)
Hey Capn Kirk,

I worked on the UH-1N, H-34, VH-60N, CH53D, CH53E, & CH46.
I served in HMX-1, HMM-163 RidgeRunners, & HMM-364 Purple Foxes.
I circled the globe (too many countries to count), and did a West Pac on the U.S.S. Peleliu in '94 two years before getting out.

And you're right, the 53's are indeed beasts
And thanks for your service as well

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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-19-2012, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Good luck with those...

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Looks like it could break something in a simple tip over. I'd hate to crash with those.

IIRC R&G sliders are supported by a frame rail. Look much better. more expensive too.

Not sure why you're so down on LSL sliders specifically for a CA model. If the canister cover is in the way, you can trim it. If they're good enough for a 49-state model, why not for the CA model--unless the canister itself were in the way? If you don't think they're good enough for either, no problem. I can't see how they'd be worse than the ones in your picture.

If I were buying sliders I'd prolly get LSL or R&G. I have engine guards instead. Also "not compatible" with a CA model, but they fit mine just fine. No interference with the canister cover, and no increased vibration.
Hey davdig, ...it's simple why I don't care for LSL's. They're overpriced for the crappy aluminum you receive (in my humble opinion).

You talk about being concerned with the T-Rex sliders above, and that they look like they would break something in a simple tip over. Well, it's obvious you're not an engineer. The T-Rexs' engine bolts are made of the highest grade commercially available steel (12.9 - rated @ 177,000 psi in tensile strength). The brackets are made of solid carbon steel 80,000 psi in tensile strength (compared to 6061-T6 aluminum used by many rated @ only 42,000 psi). The mounting points used are for the front engine mounting bolts. Between the hardware being used, and the design/welds used in mounting the engine, you're not going to simply knock the bike over and break something as you put it. And if you think the secondary bolt mounting point of the LSL's (which is a weaker weld by comparison), is going to benefit you more, along with an aluminum setup, then that is your choice. Go right ahead and pay double for what in my opinion is an overpriced inferior product. For me (an engineer by trade), I'm going to stick with the T-Rex sliders.

But to each their own ...no hard feelings

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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-19-2012, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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Post In my opinion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerpawed View Post
I think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that he's saying that the LSL slider on the L/H side doesn't stick out far enough, so the CA cover would be damaged in a tipover or slide. It's been a few months since I've had that cover off, but it's probably safe to say that the reason it bulges out is because of all the emissions crap underneath it. I guess if you're willing to grind that stuff down in a slide, then the LSL's would work. (Some would argue that you can just remove all that crap anyways...very tempting!)

I agree the LSL's look like they have better base mounts - more sturdy and (it appears, please correct me if wrong) not dependent on one bolt. I'm leaning towards them and figuring that if the emissions crap gets ground down, then oh well. After messing with the Givi engine guards that didn't fit (factory error, thread on here somewhere), I thought they were heavy and unnecessary for a 95% street bike. YMMV, of course.
Hey Tigerpawed, ...as I said to davidg, to each their own. Everyone should choose what they like best. I simply provided this information to help other riders out. The more informed you are, the better decisions you can make.

In my opinion, that double bolt setup on the LSLs' is like a faux finish on a wall. Simply there for looks more than actual functionality. Again, in my humble opinion
Seriously though, the only reason the LSLs use the secondary bolt, is to keep the slider from spinning if (knock on wood), you go down hard.
As an engineer, I can't see that really being an issue with the T-Rexs. And it wouldn't be with the LSLs as well, if it weren't for them being short, and the puc design they use.
Personally, I'm more about functionality vs. appearance.

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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-19-2012, 10:02 PM
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Thanks, good info. Always appreciate an engineer's point-of-view!

PS Ordered T-Rex. :-)

Someday is not a day of the week.

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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-19-2012, 10:07 PM
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I have the t-rex and they are nice... But I wouldn't say there customer service is top notch. I ordered full protection for my bike (spools, axle sliders, frame sliders) and the axle sliders I received were from a different bike. When I called to advise of the mistake they were very skeptical that it was their fault, and treated me as though I was scamming them. Even when I took pictures of the sliders they sent me vs. what they are supposed to look like they still gave me a hard time. After approx 40minutes of long distance phone calls (from Canada) they finally agreed to send me a proper unit, but only after they recieved the incorrect unit back... So basically a 1.5 months of BS to get the proper sliders through no fault of my own.

Bottom line is they have a huge pothead working the phone lines, and he is incapable of making simple judgement calls. If you want to deal with T-rex then call them directly and ask for Oscar.... He is their engineer, and the one who helped get me sorted in the end.
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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-19-2012, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
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Thanks, good info. Always appreciate an engineer's point-of-view!
You got at least two then. And they don't agree.
DavidG, PE (Electrical)
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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-20-2012, 09:43 AM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Thanks...

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Originally Posted by symbiotix View Post
Bottom line is they have a huge pothead working the phone lines, and he is incapable of making simple judgement calls. If you want to deal with T-rex then call them directly and ask for Oscar.... He is their engineer, and the one who helped get me sorted in the end.
Yikes! ...sorry to hear about that symbiotix. I dealt with T-Rex Racing, Inc. on a few occasions via email, and phone. I talked to two different people, I don't remember the other guys name, but Oscar is indeed the goto fellow. However, when I spoke to the other guy (administrative helper I would assume), he had no problem asking if Oscar (the engineer), could give me a call back. Well, that totally worked for me (being a mechancial engineer myself), and when Oscar called back, we indeed spoke the same language (engineering), which made things much easier.

I'm glad you brought this up, to give anyone else potentially interested in T-Rex Racing, Inc. a heads up on who to ask for if there seems to be a problem of any kind. Thanks

NOTE: For anyone interested, I was their first Versys 2010 customer. I dealt with them on the length of their L/H engine bolt. Although it was functional, it was simply too long. I spec'd out the correct length, verified it with Oscar, and a replacement bolt was sent out FREE of charge via priority mail. I got it in two days from Texas being located in SoCal myself.

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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-20-2012, 01:40 PM
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I agree the LSL's look like they have better base mounts - more sturdy and (it appears, please correct me if wrong) not dependent on one bolt.
That's how I remember it too. I haven't looked at them for awhile, but the shape might be better for sliding vs catching on the ground. Also being shorter offers advantages when they do catch on something during a slide. Less torque applied to the mounting point.

Many sliders (including T-Rex) have broken in simple tip overs. Various bikes have been damaged by various sliders in both simple tip overs and in crashes.

I would choose something that appears to be sound, and doesn't have a lot of reported failures online.

Or just go with crash bars--which is what I did.
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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-21-2012, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Question Confused about this davidg character? ...hahaha

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Originally Posted by davidg View Post
Many sliders (including T-Rex) have broken in simple tip overs. Various bikes have been damaged by various sliders in both simple tip overs and in crashes.

I would choose something that appears to be sound, and doesn't have a lot of reported failures online.

Or just go with crash bars--which is what I did.
Okay, ...so I fell for it and took the bait. LOL Needless to say a quick Google search of: 't-rex racing sliders broke' & 't-rex sliders broke in tip over' yielded only ONE result of a break (in the first results page of the first search - nothing in the second search about tip overs - and not enough compelling evidence to read any further), where the rider sped into a curve and went off road. The T-Rex slider in question dug into the ground and broke. Wow! ...hardly the scenario for the insidious statement;

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidg View Post
I would choose something that appears to be sound, and doesn't have a lot of reported failures online.
hahaha...I would choose something that doesn't have a lot of reported failures online also. WAIT, ...I did, it was my T-Rex Racing Frame Sliders!

Not everyone is going to agree with what I like, which is fine by me. I simply posted my experiences, and the information of what I found to be helpful on here, in order to potentially help other riders out. I have more recommendations than T-Rex Frame Sliders alone, ...just look at my signature. For example, Ermax (a company in France) has the BEST Versys wind screen and rear hugger that I could find, have found, and currently have installed on my bike. In my humble opinion, it's what the bike should have came with from the factory.

That being said, never in my two years of being a member, have I come across anyone else on this forum that seems to have taken what I like and dislike as personnally as davidg, who for whatever reason, appears to absolutely hate T-Rex Racing. Not sure why, and don't really care. But good luck with that by the way.

In any regard, for any forum members out there who may have questions regarding my upgrades and recommendations, always feel free to PM me. I'll be more than glad to offer any feedback and help I can. As well as share any photos' of all the specific upgrades I have listed in my signature

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