2009 BMW F800ST Update - Kawasaki Versys Forum
 
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-01-2012, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
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2009 BMW F800ST Update

Well I have had my new (to me) bike now since July and have put over 7000 miles on it. . I wasnít actually looking for another bike (donít we all say that) but one day I stopped by a non-BMW shop just to pass some time. As soon as I walked in this salesman that I have known for about 30 years came up to me and said that he wanted to show me something. He said that he knew that I knew a lot of riders and thought one of them might be interested. When I saw the BMW I told him that I might be interested. Long story short, after a test ride the next morning we started haggling. They were asking $8000 for the BMW and I managed to get $4500 for my 2009 Versys in trade. I think I got a great deal as I got to keep all my farkles from the Versys (will be posting them for sale soon, just havenít had the time yetÖlong story). The bike only had 4300 miles on it also and the V had 20,000. The things that sold me on this bike were: Belt drive, ABS brakes, more power, and less top heavy.

I love not having to mess with a chain anymore. Also this bike has what they call a lean burn engine and gets almost exactly the same gas mileage as I was getting on the V with a smaller rear sprocket (52 to 53 MPG). Not too shabby for a bike with about 23 more HP.
I also love the transmission ratios (good thing to as no way to change the overall gearing with the belt drive). First gear is much taller than the Vís and 6th gear is a real over drive that makes freeway cruising a very relaxed affair. In fact for country roads I generally never use it.

Next I suppose on my list of things I like is the under seat gas tank. This really lowers the center of gravity and doesnít change the handling noticeable from tank full to tank empty the way it does on the V. You can also fill up just like you do on a car; just lift the cap, insert hose, put on auto, when it clicks off itís full. No more holding the damn environment gas emission spring in. The battery is where the gas tank normally is. I replaced it with a Shorai lithium ion. You canít believe that anything that light could actually be a battery. It feels like a little empty cardboard box.

The only time that I have used the ABS brakes in anger were to just test themÖthey work! Nuff said.

It took me several weeks and maybe almost a thousand miles to start getting used to this beast. It does handle, but it has such a different feel that I just didnít trust it or myself. The wheel base is 57.7 inches. I believe this combined with the 180 size rear tire contributes to the slower turn in. I have been used to bikes with a shorter wheel base and a 160 rear tire. After wearing out the tires I replaced the original Bridgestone BT-20ís with Michelin Pilot Road 3ís. These were recommended by my local BMW dealer and after checking out reviews decided to give them a try. Reviews raved about them especially in the wet and I have to agree whole heatedly. These also transformed the handling, they stick like ticks on a dogs back in either the wet or dry and I have enough confidence in them and the bike now that scrapping the pegs is not a problem. Unlike the V though I have to remember to raise my toe or else it will drag before the peg. It looks like I can expect about 8000 miles from them also. I only got 6 on the V.

The instrumentation is much more complete than the Vís. It includes an instantaneous read out of the current MPG which I really like. It has really taught me somethings I didnít realize about how to get better mileage. It has a gas gauge like the Vís but with more bars. It does not move though until I have used about a quarter tank of gas. The good part is that no matter what readout I have the set the instrument panel to (there are many) when the gas gets down to 50 miles from empty it goes into miles until empty mode. I am sure this may have saved my butt a couple of times. The only criticism I have with the instrumentation is the speed odometer. It is analog and way to small to read at a glance.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-01-2012, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
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Continued

Almost forgot a very important featureÖit came with a center stand. I had forgotten just how great these are. I doubt that I would ever buy another bike without one now. My only complaint about it is that there is no handy hand hold for pulling it up onto it. I solved this issue by carrying along a soft strap. I just hook this onto the passenger peg and up it comes.

As per my usual modus operandi I have farkled this one alsoÖcanít get any of those damn motorcycle engineers to come to my house and make a list of what I want.

The first thing I did was to chop off the ugly tail from the rear fender and remove all those warning stickers.

Next I made some highway pegs for it. This was quite a task to make brackets that bolted solid and come through the body work in the exact place that I wanted but I am delighted with the results.

I was planning a trip from St. Louis to Florida to visit my sons and as I have a propensity to not pay close enough attention to my speed at times and to relieve my right hand I installed a Motronic electronic cruise control. I went this route instead of a throttle lock because in the mountains throttle locks arenít much good. This unit is actually meant for a car so of course I had to make all the brackets. Took some time to get it wired as the BMW has what they call a CAN bus. The bike doesnít have even 1 fuse in it. The CPU checks everything and disables any circuit that has an overload. It also gives a warning message on the dash for anything such as a tail light that isnít working properly. This is great except that you canít just willy nilly start splicing things into the wiring harness any place you choose as the CPU will then think something is amiss. I had to add a couple of small relays into the brake light and tail light circuits to prevent this. The spice into the brake light is needed to turn the cruise control off when you hit the brakes and the splice into the tail light circuit was required so that the cruise control would not be drawing any power when the bike wasnít running. All together this mod took me a couple of weeks to make the brackets, install, and get it working properly. It sure is great though, it keeps the set speed well within 1 MPH no matter what the conditions are.

My bike came with both the stock exhaust and an aftermarket one (no name). I hate the sound of the stocker; love the sounds from the aftermarket one. Itís fine for a couple of hours but on long trips itís too loud and starts to bother me so I keep switching back and forth.

The bike also came with both the stock seat (BMW probably makes the best stock seats of any manufacturer) and a Sargent. The Sargent seat is the best quality seat that I have ever owned and I have had many as well as made quite a few myself. Itís beautiful and even includes a clear plastic tube about 4 inches in diameter and 10 inches long that fits in a recess where the seat humps up beginning the passenger portion. Makes me wonder why they all arenít made that way. I have short arms and when trying out the Sargent it had me setting on a little hump so I took it apart and did some grinding and re-installed the cover. This helped considerable. I rode it to Jacksonville Florida and had to get a new front tire while I was there. I had replaced the rear before I left but wanted to get all the mileage I could out of the front. When looking online for a local bike shop to get a tire I came across Sargent. I had no idea they were located there but decided to give them a call and see if they could do my seat the right way. I had an appointment the next morning. They were very prompt, listened to my concerns and took the cover off for some more grinding and told me to take it for a test spin. All I could say when I came back was, ďWonderfulĒ. When I replaced the seat cover I pulled a little too hard at one place and ripped it a little. It didnít show though as it was underneath. Sargent asked if I would like a new cover installed. I had them do that also and the entire bill was only $70.00 for everything. Great people, canít recommend them and their product enough.

I have also added a beautiful Rizoma stainless steel front brake reservoir replacing the large ugly plastic stocker.

The bike came with the stock BMW expandable panniers. I would rather they were larger without expanding them though as when you do the bike is quite wide. They work great though and are keyed to the ignition so they are a keeper.

I have also added a top trunk. That was both necessary for more luggage capacity and also because my wife is scared she will fall off without a back restÖin fact I donít blame her. I wonder how many males have ridden as a passenger without one. Itís scary.

My bike came with risers but I wanted an even more upright riding position. (Old age you know) I was able to find just the bars I wanted at a local shop for $42.00. It took some very creative re-routing of the throttle cable, brake hose, and wiring to get the bars installed without having to resort to getting longer cables but I succeeded and am very happy with the results..

I also made a set of hand guards just like the ones that I made for the V out of cast aluminum grain scoops. I got them for 6 bucks each, cut off the handles and reshaped them, then made some brackets to attach them. Between these and the heated grips, no more freezing fingers.

One of my biggest complaints with the bike was the extreme heat on my thighs. I solved this by constructing a sandwich made from an old plastic waste basket, some left over water heater insulation, and some black vinyl. I cut the plastic shaped to slide under the fairing, then glued the insulation to it and covered it with the vinyl. I attacked it to the frame with standoffs I made. It sure helped, in fact, now even in extreme conditions (wreck on the freeway going walking pace or less for 45 minutes in 92 degree heat slipping the clutch all the way) the heat is not a problem.

The only other issue that I have with this bike is the vibration. I have had singles that were not as bad. It vibrates enough that it shakes the power plug out of my GPS. Grip puppies and the cruise control helped keeping my hands from falling asleep and a rubber band keeps the power plug in the GPS now but I sure wish it were a much smother motor.

Other little changes have been to add an HID low beam and a taller windscreen. Thatís about all I can think of right now. I know this was kind of long winded but I hope that you found it interesting.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-01-2012, 11:36 PM
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-01-2012, 11:53 PM Thread Starter
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Sure why not.
Don't have too many right now though.

Here is the heat shield and my highway pegs I wrote about.


New handlebars


In the driveway...hadn't done too much to it yet.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-02-2012, 09:19 AM
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-02-2012, 09:22 AM
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Hey Charles, interesting to find you over here on this forum; I've seen you on the F800 forum.

I'm a new-to-me V owner working to get the bike set up to ride the dirt roads where I don't want to risk the F belt.

George
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-02-2012, 09:43 AM
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Nice job on the heat ducting and highway pegs!

Is engine vibration a common problem on the F800ST?
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-02-2012, 09:44 AM Thread Starter
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What a coincidence! Yup, I am still semi-active here even though I traded my V. It was a good-un. Hope you enjoy yours George.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-02-2012, 10:40 AM
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Beautiful bike. What is in place of the gas tank?
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-02-2012, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by trialsguy View Post
Nice job on the heat ducting and highway pegs!

Is engine vibration a common problem on the F800ST?
You will find some that deny the F800 vibrates at all. They either have no nerves at all or are in denial. It shakes the **** out of the bars and I tried several methods to minimize it. Finally I went back to the stock 433 pound handlebar weights with grip puppies. This helps but not enough.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-02-2012, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
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Beautiful bike. What is in place of the gas tank?
All those other little thingies that we don't want to look at. Battery, CPU, air box, etc. Actually it makes getting to things easier. I had to strip mine down to it's underwear several times when hooking up the cruise control. With the advent of fuel injection removing the gas tank got a lot harder and more complicated. Oh for the days when you had 1 hose and 2 bolts.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-02-2012, 12:22 PM
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The F800 was a bike on my short list when I wanted a second, lighter bike to complement my ST1300. I was bidding on a BMW factory rep's bike when the numbers were within my budget and it ended up selling for thousands more after I dropped out. In retrospect I'm glad because I found a used Versys for less than my budget and subsequently have read several reviews citing engine vibration on F bikes.

Interesting, then, your experience with vibration. The last few magazine tests I've read on F bikes mentioned annoying vibration in detail, not just as a passing observation.

Motorcycle Consumer News, 3/2011, says vibration is an issue above 7,000 rpm: "However, engine vibrations (like a Boxer at high rpm, or those lovable British twins) become noticeable in the handgrips above 70 mph, which might make you think twice about maintaining such high cruising speeds."

"All that's left for BMW to iron out is the buzz that puts my hands to sleep at constant speeds over 70 mph..."

Vibration is also noted in the test notes "Picks and Pans" along with a hard to read speedo.

Rider, 6/2011, thinks it's an issue above 5,000 rpm: "To mimic the sound and feel of a boxer twin, the F 800 R has an even firing sequence. Both pistons move up and down together, with one combustion cycle for each rotation of the crankshaft. BMW uses a unique system to address primary and secondary imbalances. Instead of a chain or gear-driven balance shaft, which can be noisy, a compensation rod is attached to the center of the crankshaft. Connected to the rod is a horizontal balance arm, and together their mass matches that of the pistons and rocker arms. By moving up and down opposite the pistons, the compensation rod offsets untoward vibration. Despite the claimed advantages of this setup, the F 800 R is quite buzzy, not unlike its siblings, the F 800 GS (Rider, January 2009) and F 650 GS (which I rode for a week on the Edelweiss Alps Extreme Tour; Rider, October 2010). The F 800 R is smooth at low revs, but once the tach needle sweeps past 5,000 rpm it begins to feel frenetic, like a teenager hopped up on Red Bull. Vibration is felt in the grips, seat, tank and pegs all the way up to the 9,000-rpm redline. Tiresome and annoying, I sometimes ran a gear high to keep engine speed low. Fortunately, in sixth gear the engine spins just below 5,000 rpm at 75 mph, which allows cruising in harmonious bliss rather than harmonic dissonance."

This is a photo caption in the same story: "BMW's F-series parallel twin makes good power, but above 5,000 rpm vibration is excessive."

[Full disclosure: I am a Rider contributor, although not as a bike tester.]

(Interesting that BMW seems to have tried to mimic the feel of a boxer. The "character" of the boxer mill is what has kept me from buying an RT. I have friends who love their boxers, ride what you like. I will be curious to see if BMW's water cooled version of the boxer somehow addresses the buzz.)


Kevin Ash (http://www.ashonbikes.com/content/bmw-f800gs): "The engine isn’t as eager as I was expecting on the road (compared with the F800S), but it pulls taller gears well from low revs and is relaxed when loaded at touring speeds. Rev it hard and it does reward with decent pace despite feeling more flat at the top than the F800S, but an old BMW bugbear, vibration, does become an issue at steady motorway speeds, when the motor buzzes harshly through the seat and handlebars. As this is exactly the sort of use the bike will get it is disappointing, especially as the unique engine balancing system is clever and interesting: a third conrod driven by the crankshaft points underneath the engine where it drives a lever arm with a bobweight at one end. BMW says this is more effective than conventional rotating balance shafts and saps less power too – maybe so, but the engine still tingles."

"But with a bigger fuel tank and less vibration, it’d sell better."


All that said, I like the concept of the F800, especially in the ST setup. Your side covers look nicely executed, well done. You seem to have fallen in to a good deal dollars and sense wise. Enjoy the bike and don't be a stranger.


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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-02-2012, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for confirmation. It’s sort of funny in a way. When I first joined the F800 site and mentioned the vibration I caught all kinds of crap. What vibration, BMW’s never vibrate. Maybe they just bought them to decorate their living rooms and never ride them. I will have to say though that this is my favorite bike of all time despite some niggles. One thing that I noticed about owning this bike is the sudden pride I have in having something considered to be sort of an expensive exotic bike and I get quite a few complementary comments about it. I always considered myself not overly prideful and very pragmatic too. Just goes to show that I maybe human after all despite some nay sayers.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-02-2012, 03:17 PM
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No machine is perfect and all of us have our preferences. Having put so many miles on an ST1300 I've gotten used to turbine-like smoothness and Honda reliability. My Versys is a lot lighter and much more tossable, and it's also a simpler machine so it’s not as refined. They’re both very well suited to the way I ride them.

It's too bad you caught some crap on the F800 site when you brought up a negative topic (vibration). Recently I've been lurking on the K1600 sites (one US, one UK) as I'm intrigued by the GT. I found both sites through Google searches for "BMW K1600 problems," for whatever that’s worth. The new K bikes appear to be incredible machines with power, handling and technology galore. More than a few riders from the ST site have already bought them and reports are all favorable. I spoke this week to one BMW dealer service manager in Mass and one in Rhode Island about their experience and they report only minor issues with new K’s, but go to the user forums and there are many reports of problems with the new model. Not searching the site but just looking at lists of active topics I read reports of excessive oil consumption (the moto magazines have reported that), failed starter, leaking transmission and engine oil, failed transmission, leaking water pump, headlamp lenses distorting from the inside, condensation inside the instrument cluster, driveline lash, failed alternator, and problems with body parts lining up. A software upgrade appears to have solved problems with cold starting, the power windshield not going up and down, a heated seat that can't be turned off, and iPod/Bluetooth connectivity.

There was one guy from Florida who was enjoying a long trip on his K1600GTL when it started leaking from both sides. He was in Canada. That was October 5th. He took it to the BMW dealer in New Market, Ontario and was informed that he needed a coolant pump and a transmission. Ouch! When the guy posted up about it on the owner forum he got pounced upon by people who accused him of being a “troll” who was just trying to stir up trouble. Poor guy was left having to defend himself, posting personal information to prove to the doubters that he was indeed a K bike owner and was indeed having problems. He began posting his email correspondence with BMW to share his progress. Warranty service was made difficult because BMW’s Canadian operation is separate from its US operation, plus all the parts had to be provided under warranty from BMW in Germany. Two and a half months later, on December 15, the guy finally got a call in Florida from the dealer in Canada that his bike was ready. Of course it was ready in Ontario. In December. I expect this guy's situation is unusual, but the way he was pegged as a troll bothered me. I doubt that kind of treatment would happen here or on the ST forum.


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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-02-2012, 07:43 PM
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BMW's quality has gone straight to hell. They used to be really well put together machines using top quality suppliers. That's no longer the case. They spec low quality bearings, don't put enough grease in them and don't assemble the bikes well. I know of a guy who had his throttle jam wide open. When he took it to the dealer, they found some parts packing material stuck in the throttle body. It must have been floating around in the airbox when the bike was assembled. His post prompted another guy to have a look at his new bike and he discovered that it had been shipped with no air filter.

Apart from the quality problems, BMW uses its customers as beta testers. As they have problems with new models, BMW makes running changes in the bikes without making the info public. After about 3 years, they've fixed most of the issues and it's fairly safe to buy the 4th year model. Those K1600s are phenomenally complex motorcycles. I can't imagine the problems that are going to crop up in them.

After nearly 40 years of BMW ownership, I won't be buying a new one. I've gotta say, though, that the F800 is a fantastic bike to ride on a mountain road. I've been to 49 states on mine.

George
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-02-2012, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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I have heard it said before that you should never buy a new car, truck, or motorcycle in the first year they are produced. I think these experiences back that up.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-03-2012, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Pegasus View Post
Sure why not.
Don't have too many right now though.

Here is the heat shield and my highway pegs I wrote about.


New handlebars


In the driveway...hadn't done too much to it yet.
Sweet looking Ride ) I have always had a eye for that bike ....enjoy the ride and keep us posted with your reviews .
OX......


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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-03-2012, 10:38 AM
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Sweet looking Ride
Ox is right, the F800ST is a nice looking bike. BMW's design aesthetic does not often work for me, but the F800ST is sharp. That color suits it well, too. The two people I know who have them enjoy them. One went from an 883 Sportster to the F bike...she couldn't be happier with the change. The other has a garage full of bikes and cars and both of his homes...just another toy for him.

So, Pegasus, congrats on a new set of wings...enjoy the ride!


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