Am I my Shop's ATM? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-07-2011, 10:38 PM Thread Starter
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Am I my Shop's ATM?

OK, so it's a long story, but I will sum it up

About 3 months ago, I had both sprockets and a new chain put on by my local (3 year history) shop as I have had multiple issues with chains in the past. I wanted to pay the premium to get it done right.

Fast forward 1000 miles (a month) took it into the shop because I was having to tighten it WAY too often. Told them something was wrong with the chain and they proceeded to take links out, move the wheel back to the first mark on the swingarm and start anew.

Took it in three weeks ago and 2500 miles (total distance) later to show them how i have moved it all the way back out again. They rubbed their chins and told me that the chain was having a problem and that it would be fixed right. Order new chain and rear sprocket.
-parts arrive-
drop my bike off at the end of the week for a quick one hour job, come back later to find no work done, but talked to the guys and they told me that my front sprocket needed to replaced (of which i had expressed concern) and that this would need to be ordered... along with a sprocket that actually fit my bike. recommended no riding as all where in poor condition.
-fast forward to today (2 weeks, 1 holiday weekend later)-
Went in to find new sprockets and chain on in perfect working order... and a bill for over $300. new sprockets, chain, and 100 bucks labor. Censors get out your red pens.... WTF!!!

...now
- I told my shop guy that I paid him for a warranty or so that I would have a fighter in the ring with parts suppliers in just such instances.
- That it should not be different than a defective Metzler he warrantied for me THIS year.

Needless to say, I am in disbelief that he has pulled this on me. I have spent over 3000 there this year on various projects... I just don't get it.

Am I out of line here? Can my people give me some feedback/ammunition for when I go back in to settle this?

The bike is in my garage before you guys ask but it is a small town

Thanks
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-07-2011, 11:13 PM
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Just a silly question sir:-

How often do you oil your chain or does your bike has a chain oiler.

I am doing 20k on the original chain and still looks good.

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-07-2011, 11:22 PM
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using OEM or better how can that happen?

"Respect the Ride if you don't you Won't"
"A man's got to know his limitations"
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-07-2011, 11:30 PM
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Let me see if i got this right, 3 month's ago brand new chain and both sprockets, now a 2nd brand new chain and sprockets, somthing wrong with that picture. I am a bit slack on chain maint but my chain at 24,000km still has a bit of life in it and guessing by 30,000 a complete change. Hmmm I wonder if they fitted wrong type of sprocket 3 months ago that stretched and stuffed chain or a faulty chain that ruined the sprockets?
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 01:05 AM
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What brand and model of chain and sprockets were fitted the first time at what mileage (if they even did replace them), and this time? What did they say when you reminded them of the paid warranty? What warranty is it exactly, what is the coverage and duration, and when did you get it?
Removing links to regain adjustment is absolutely ridiculous and way past the chain's acceptable service limits, especially at 1000 miles... Sounds like they've found themselves a good milk cow.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 06:04 AM
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I work in the car repair business, they are absolutely out of line. If you've spent that much money there they need to eat this one. We always take care of our regular customers. We had a guy hit our service lane door in his truck and he happened to be a guy that has bought a few cars from us and spends a good amount of change in service. We put it and his vehicle repair on our insurance premium and told him not to worry about it. We "internal" repairs all the time for good customers, and if it's actually our fault there's no question, we're covering it. Hope this helps

Mike
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 07:35 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Fastoman View Post
Just a silly question sir:-

How often do you oil your chain or does your bike has a chain oiler.

I am doing 20k on the original chain and still looks good.

I'm an avid chain oiler, every fill up, it gets at least a little squirt. (in the past when i was less experienced, I got 15,000 miles on OEM) I should be able to oil it with sand and it last longer than 2500 miles.
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 08:07 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cmoreride View Post
using OEM or better how can that happen?
My point exactly... It was a Parts Unlimited Brand chain (o-ring)

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Originally Posted by kiwi 41 View Post
Let me see if i got this right, 3 month's ago brand new chain and both sprockets, now a 2nd brand new chain and sprockets, somthing wrong with that picture. I am a bit slack on chain maint but my chain at 24,000km still has a bit of life in it and guessing by 30,000 a complete change. Hmmm I wonder if they fitted wrong type of sprocket 3 months ago that stretched and stuffed chain or a faulty chain that ruined the sprockets?
You've got it exactly right kiwi. I am replacing everything AGAIN! The chain was defective and stretched prematurely causing excessive wear on the sprockets. I agree something is not right. This is why I brought it in and expected a new set early.

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Originally Posted by invader View Post
What brand and model of chain and sprockets were fitted the first time at what mileage (if they even did replace them), and this time? What did they say when you reminded them of the paid warranty? What warranty is it exactly, what is the coverage and duration, and when did you get it?
Removing links to regain adjustment is absolutely ridiculous and way past the chain's acceptable service limits, especially at 1000 miles... Sounds like they've found themselves a good milk cow.
Invader, I went with a rubber dampened 15t Kawasaki front sprocket (OEM), a Parts Unlimited Chain (their sugestion), Sunstar 44t Rear steel sprocket and have now gotten the OEM chain, OEM front SProcket and maybe a Renthal 44t sprocket rear. I told them that I didn't mind paying the difference in parts price from the first setup to the second.
When I explained that I had them put everything on for a warranty potential, they said that they couldn't eat that big of a ticket. The paid warranty is not written down, but a gentlemen's notion of what is acceptable wear and lifespan on billed labor. NO ONE (i don't believe) would consider this acceptable wear for new sprockets, chain and $100 labor billed three months ago.

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Originally Posted by KawiVA76 View Post
I work in the car repair business, they are absolutely out of line. If you've spent that much money there they need to eat this one. We always take care of our regular customers. We had a guy hit our service lane door in his truck and he happened to be a guy that has bought a few cars from us and spends a good amount of change in service. We put it and his vehicle repair on our insurance premium and told him not to worry about it. We "internal" repairs all the time for good customers, and if it's actually our fault there's no question, we're covering it. Hope this helps

Mike
True, true. They've done good by me in the past, but alot is based upon this notion that if something goes wrong with thier work, they will fix it.... do I keep taking it back there if they don't honor this? I had them rebuild a yz450 engine recently and if something they did wrong goes poorly and wrecks the motor... will they cover that? Ha. I doubt it if I'm having problems with a $300 invoice.

Thanks all for the input
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 08:55 AM
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Unhappy Bottom of Class

Your Kentucky mechanics must have graduated at the bottom of the class as the Motorcycle Mechanics Institute????
Or not even graduated!

ďDonít bother me with DETAILS!Ē
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 09:40 AM
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one of the strongest things you can do in today's society is to "vote with your dollar". I wouldn't have let him work on the bike without giving a quote or some indication of the price but anyways; you need to politely let them know that because of this frustration you will be finding a new shop to bring your business too.

my pet peeve is when someone at a kawasaki dealership doesnt know more then me about the bike and I end up having to explain how to adjust preload. It so unprofessional. Learn your product, and if you dont know then dont just babble about what you THINK it is. sorry rant.

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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 10:06 AM
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How many miles were on the original chain when they replaced it for excessive stretching/wear?

It sounds like there is a serious issue if 2 chains have experienced excessive wear.
What are the chances that the original chain & the replacement were both faulty?
Pretty slim I would guess.

Not to offend, but are you sure you are not over tightening them?
If not, I would be more concerned with what is wrong with the bike that 2 chains have worn out.

Last edited by Ogre_fl; 07-08-2011 at 11:36 AM.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty_h View Post
... I had both sprockets and a new chain put on by my local (3 year history) shop as I have had multiple issues with chains in the past. ...

Fast forward 1000 miles (a month) took it into the shop because I was having to tighten it WAY too often....
Are you sure youíre not over tightening them? Iíve got over 28,000 miles on my original OEM chain and itís still within spec, in fact Iíve only adjusted it a total of 2.5 mm (at the axle) since I bought it.

At any rate, Iíd take a good look at that first chain and sprockets.

The only things I can think of that would stretch it out that fast would be insufficient slack ó and that could possibly be caused by an eccentrically cut (out of round) sprocket (but you would/should have seen that if you were checking the slack in several places)...

Or a chain that was assembled without lube (your lubing it wouldnít get past the o-rings in to the bearings where it needs to be)...

And if you can identify a provable defect, show it to your dealer (who sounds like a D**k!) and/or contact the manufacturer of the part.

Good luck
.

~~ Live Like You're Dying ~~
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 10:49 AM
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i bet he is tightening it too tight while it is unloaded and then when he sits on it, he stretches the chain out, god forbid he has a passenger on there too and hits a bump. SUPER STRETCH

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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 12:00 PM
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Check your swing arm alignment and by any change did you drop you V.

Getting this much wear on the chain at such low Km is unbelievable. something is not right here sir. Get a second opinion.

and keep us posted.
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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Take it easy everybody on pointing the finger at me over tightening.

I've got 40,000 miles on this bike from when I bought it new. I got 15K out of the OEM setup (wasn't the best oiler... I've since learned my lesson) since then I've gotten 15 and 14k (based up on needed changes in sprockets and chains) out of subsequent aftermarket setups. I went in to pay to get it all done and done right with a shop's name on the work and to go to bat for me in case of a faulty part. I know what to look for when tightening the chain.

In fact... The chain was stretching SO fast during a trip that I was pulling off to tighten the chain to keep it from falling off the bike (which it had tried to do).

Fasto-
I have had a couple of low speed tips while in mud in MT last year... but since had put 14K on the setup since.

Does no one believe that they could have just sold me a crap chain or wrong tensil strength?

Not only this, but I did take it back to the shop within 1000 miles to have THEM retension where they decided to take out the links.
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 01:05 PM Thread Starter
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i bet he is tightening it too tight while it is unloaded and then when he sits on it, he stretches the chain out, god forbid he has a passenger on there too and hits a bump. SUPER STRETCH
Pssst... I can hear you
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 01:33 PM
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the short answer to your original question is:
Yes you are that shop's ATM

Because you are probably a good person that gave that shop the benefit of the doubt, you got bent over and taken.

The reason that no one believes it could just be a bad chain is, you said it happened to two different chains. Also, if it was just a bad chain I think you would have had more serious probelms like it coming apart or breaking under a load.

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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 01:51 PM
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Do you have ALL of the receipts for all chain and sprocket changes, time lines and miles on the repair orders ? Did they give you the old parts when they replaced them with new parts? They should have unless they are B.S.ing you.
If you do have them MAKE COPIES of all your receipts and keep old parts.
This may hurt.... GO TO ANOTHER DEALER get an estimate and description of what they think is causing the problem ...DON'T TELL THEM ANYTHING OF THE PREVIOUS DEALER OR PROBLEM!!! Have the repairs made, when the problem is corrected by them have them document what they found wrong .
Take your COPY of the new repair, not the original, to the original dealer, tell them you want all your money back or you are going to take them to small claims court. Be persistent and tough, if they were wrong they owe you. Been there done that. Documentation is what the judge needs.

Last edited by Nick; 07-08-2011 at 02:06 PM.
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not sure where the 2 chains came from. There is only 1 chain that this has happened to. I took it in at 1000 miles and they readjusted it and told me to ride it. I then went back 1500 miles later with a completely worn out set of sprockets and chain that they had put on and then adjusted for a total of 2500 miles.

1 chain.

This is really a customer service question. I've already taken the shop "meat stick" three months ago when I had it done the first time.... Now they want a tuggy while trying it again when I'm trying to get them to fix it right from the first go-round.

(I thought about posting a link to the word "tuggy" just to see how many of you sicko's would click on it)
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
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Do you have ALL of the receipts for all chain and sprocket changes, time lines and miles on the repair orders ? Did they give you the old parts when they replaced them with new parts? They should have unless they are BSing you.
If you do MAKE COPIES of all your receipts and keep old parts.
This may hurt.... GO TO ANOTHER DEALER have the repairs made again, have them document what they found wrong if the problem is corrected by them.
Take your COPY, not the original of the new repair to your original dealer, tell them you want all your money back or you are going to take them to small claims court. Be persistent and tough, if they were wrong they owe you.
Yikes, repairs have been made. I would just switch shops if i were court pissed off. I'm just looking for some verification that I'm not out of line in expecting a full set of chain and sprockets for free.
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