went down today due to ABS malfunction + video - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
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went down today due to ABS malfunction + video

Had to suddenly stop but ABS kicked in and the bike kept moving forward. I am not sure anymore I like the idea of ABS on motorcycles.
No damage to the bike except the rear brake lever bent a little bit, luckily i have crash bars that took the hit.


here is the video:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw...nUwN0Yxdm1VZ0E

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Thread closed last Edited by onewizard
If the OP has something to update please PM me, otherwise it remains closed.

About 1 year ago I posted a alert about the wiring harness on the 2015 650 ABS, some thought it a knee jerk reaction, I felt it was of importance not so much as to safety but reliability, many of the outer wires in the harness at that location were 18 gauge or smaller and went to the ECU , something that could fail over time and be unaware of it until you were left stranded. It turns out that my lowered 2015 was a combination of possible manipulation of the harness by me and the dealership, it turns out that everyone that posted had sufficient clearance at the top of the rear shock.
So initially I was trying to give a heads up on a possible problem. And that is exactly what I thought of when this thread started, unfortunately I feel there is misinformation and a lack of willingness to either investigate further by using a professional Kawasaki mechanic , or come forward with information that has been missing in previous posts, with a logical explanation of what happened. As it stands right now, this thread would be a good thread for Triumph to use for negative feedback in advertising against buying a Versys.

Last edited by onewizard; 12-08-2017 at 06:51 PM. Reason: Added reason for closing
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post #2 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 02:16 PM
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That's an odd video. Going down that street it feels like you were swaying back and forth but maybe that's a side effect of the mounting position or something.

It LOOKS to me like you you must have hit your back brake almost exclusively, I don't see the front dive at all, is that the case? Learning to rely more heavily on my front brake, especially in emergency braking situations, was hard for me but is invaluable.

Typically with ABS your stopping distance is still shorter than with a locked tire, if you can't stop in the gap you have (or evade), you're travelling too closely or too fast. Looks like you probably could have evaded right, too.

No blame in any of that, but I don't see this is a failure of ABS, personally. I wish my Gen II had it.
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post #3 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
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I didn't touch the rear brake at all. I didn't sway right because I was sure I had enough distance to come to a stop. ABS didn't give me a chance, kicked in too early, I felt like I was so far from locking the front wheel.
I've been riding for 16 years and not only on weekend, I put about 10k miles a year but the Versys is my first bike with a ABS... so I'm a new rider when it comes to ABS.
Is there a way to deactivate ABS on the versys?

Last edited by vaulter; 10-17-2016 at 02:41 PM.
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post #4 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 02:59 PM
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Wow that is scary - the idea that you grab your brakes when you need them and the antilock kicks in and doesn't let you stop! That's a subtle fear I have about ABS also. Some motorcycles are known to have this problem, especially on gravel.

It does seem like a malfunction to me.
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post #5 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 03:06 PM
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Well that sucks. Seemed like you should have stopped by the time you met his bumper. Maybe you should practice some hard braking to see just what it takes to trip it into action. It could be engaging prematurely as you suspect.
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post #6 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaulter View Post
Had to suddenly stop but ABS kicked in and the bike kept moving forward. I am not sure anymore I like the idea of ABS on motorcycles.
No damage to the bike except the rear brake lever bent a little bit, luckily i have crash bars that took the hit.


here is the video:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw...nUwN0Yxdm1VZ0E
I had the same sort of thing happen yesterday on my Thruxton. Was trail braking into a corner and felt the brakes let go. Instinctively, I stood the bike up preferring to ride straight up into the grass than low side the bike. The brakes eventually kicked in and I was able to proceed without showcasing any mad motocross skillz to my fellow riders.
Nice thing about the Thruxton is both ABS and TC can be cancelled with the press of a button. If it becomes a regular issue, I might have to disable it, but it's got 2k of spirited riding on the clock now and that's its first hiccup.
Do feel bad that it bit you like that, but it's a good lesson that you shouldn't be following so close.
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post #7 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 03:26 PM
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Are you kidding me, vaulter? Blaming the ABS? Did you not see the vehicle in front of you? It's obviously your complete lack of riding skills that's to blame. It's pretty damn obvious, even with no audio.... Seriously. WTF, vaulter? How much alcohol did you have in your blood? You're so lucky you didn't get busted.

Last edited by invader; 10-17-2016 at 03:32 PM.
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post #8 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 03:48 PM
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Abs / 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by vaulter View Post
Had to suddenly stop but ABS kicked in and the bike kept moving forward. I am not sure anymore I like the idea of ABS on motorcycles.
No damage to the bike except the rear brake lever bent a little bit, luckily i have crash bars that took the hit.


here is the video:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw...nUwN0Yxdm1VZ0E
I have looked at that video about 7 times, two times you closed in on the truck, first was the fire hydrant than the street light, at no time did I see the angle of the front of the bike change. I can tell you that I can get my front brake grabbing to the point I am almost going over the bars, back brake will only fire if I lock up the rear wheel. So it has been suggested to try emergency braking in a parking lot, from what I saw in the video, if you hadn't said so, I would have suggested that the back brake was the only brake activated and too late. The other factor is what is your front tire and what pressure are you running, also I am not trying to judge but be helpful, I am just through my rear tire at 9000 KM , do a lot of engine braking and now have a Michelin PR4, no question the Dunlop isn't as good a tire. I changed my rear adjustment to 12 turns in, and front preload to 15 turns in, rebound to 2.0 out. One thing also to remember, if you grab the brake suddenly before weight shift occurs, you have a lightly loaded front tire, it will lock up , hence the ABS, increasing force would have slowed you down when that happened.
If you find the front ABS firing every time under normal and aggressive braking, you need to take it in to the dealer
, I can say even on gravel my front brake is effective enough to have weight shift to the front tire, personally I wouldn't ever disable it, some have suggested that it should be a option for off road, my take is this isn't a off road bike , second thing is , similar to a car, letting off on the brake is the opposite of what you should do when it fires, also you should have been in a lower gear, releasing the throttle provides engine braking and weight shift to the front tire, which in my opinion provides 85 to 90% of the braking.

FYI within the first 3000KM of ownership I had a similar incident, except it was a advanced green during rush hour with pedestrians ready to cross the second the light allowed them, person/ car in front of me could have turned into a parking lot/ business on my left while in the left hand turn lane but chose instead to use the light , this was a very short advanced green turn signal, one car length into the turn she slams on the brakes, I have one hand on the clutch, one on the throttle, no time to grab the front brake and used the rear brake and steered around her while on my horn, never hit any pedestrians or the car, the ABS did fire and gave me the extra 3 feet to get around her. FYI she couldn't complete the turn because it was rush hour and the entrance to the parking lot was blocked by through traffic.

Would I disable my ABS if it was a option---Never ABS isn't a substitute for riding skill, just like skid control and hill start technology in a car isn't a substitute for learning skid control and starting on a hill.

Last edited by onewizard; 10-17-2016 at 03:56 PM.
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post #9 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 03:58 PM
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.... at no time did I see the angle of the front of the bike change. I can tell you that I can get my front brake grabbing to the point I am almost going over the bars, back brake will only fire if I lock up the rear wheel....
Are you suggesting he didn't brake? That he just forgot to pull the lever or something, and posted this video & post to troll us?

If there was a brake malfunction, as he suggests, then the front wouldn't dive. That's why you don't see the angle of the front of the bike change.

I've felt something similar, trying to slow down but the bike wasn't cooperating. This is my first bike with ABS also so I'm not sure what to expect... It only happened once and I chalked it up to human error. It happened so fast and then was working, I wasn't sure if it even happened. Because how could that happen, right? That would be so dangerous if you pulled the brake the the antilock just decided not to stop!?

Last edited by zirconx; 10-17-2016 at 04:02 PM.
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post #10 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 04:15 PM
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Abs / 2015

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Originally Posted by zirconx View Post
Are you suggesting he didn't brake? That he just forgot to pull the lever or something, and posted this video & post to troll us?

If there was a brake malfunction, as he suggests, then the front wouldn't dive. That's why you don't see the angle of the front of the bike change.

I've felt something similar, trying to slow down but the bike wasn't cooperating. This is my first bike with ABS also so I'm not sure what to expect... It only happened once and I chalked it up to human error. It happened so fast and then was working, I wasn't sure if it even happened. Because how could that happen, right? That would be so dangerous if you pulled the brake the the antilock just decided not to stop!?
I can only refer to 2015/16, two things happen, the very first turning of the wheels from a start resets the ABS, two circuits, two fuses, one is control one is the pump, disconnecting the pump fuse will disable the circuit, removing / disconnecting the sensor will disable that particular brake.The rotation of the front/back wheel and speed sensor decides which brake to fire, that is , locking up the back brake does not fire the ABS on the front brake. So if you are panic stopping, the greater the force on the front brake = shorter stopping time, as the ABS only prevents the wheel from locking up.
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post #11 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 04:35 PM
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Are you suggesting he didn't brake? That he just forgot to pull the lever or something, and posted this video & post to troll us?

If there was a brake malfunction, as he suggests, then the front wouldn't dive. That's why you don't see the angle of the front of the bike change.
I somewhat agree, however I will tell you a short story. My female travel agent took the safety course, one of the maneuvers is to do a panic stop grabbing the front brake, she did just that and went over the bars, scraps and bruises, I had a hard time not to laugh, the instructor failed to explain the weight transfer during braking, she was lucky to have passed the course and only scrapes and bruises.
If in fact the OP did use the front brake, last minute panic stop, and the very first thing was a lightly weighted front tire, would have locked up, next instant the ABS fires, if he didn't increase pressure but backed off, what happened would happen. Without the ABS he would have gone into a skid and probably ended under the truck. What I and others have suggested is to go to a parking lot and see if he can duplicate this, a loose connection or corroded connection may simulate what happened, and indeed it may be faulty.

However, ABS isn't a substitute for inexperience , if you watch the video, he made a rolling stop, near the fire hydrant he closed in on the truck, that very instant I would have increased my distance by one car length, downshifted into a lower gear, had my revs up around 6000 RPM, at the light standard it was already too late, for myself all that would have been needed is back off on the throttle and brake, and that is why my Dunlop tire got 8950 KM on it and was down to the cord ( I was lucky, no tire failure , my last Dunlop was constructed differently, in reality, after seeing the tire once off the rim, it should have been changed 2000 KM earlier, PR4 is a huge improvement, front may go in the garbage long before the tread is worn, the PR4 for the front)
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Last edited by onewizard; 10-17-2016 at 09:21 PM.
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post #12 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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Are you kidding me, vaulter? Blaming the ABS? Did you not see the vehicle in front of you? It's obviously your complete lack of riding skills that's to blame. It's pretty damn obvious, even with no audio.... Seriously. WTF, vaulter? How much alcohol did you have in your blood? You're so lucky you didn't get busted.
In that particular situation it was my fault because i didnt keep distance from the car in front of me. I was counting on my front brakes, I was pulling the lever hard and was helpless when the bike kept moving forward. I wasn't drunk and I was moving relatively slowly, the SUV in the front just surprised me by sudden stopping. I can guarantee you that if my versys hadn't had ABS i'd have stopped without hitting him.

I must say, it's a very scary feeling when you pull the lever in full strength and the bike just ignores it.
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post #14 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 05:58 PM
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Wow that is scary - the idea that you grab your brakes when you need them and the antilock kicks in and doesn't let you stop! That's a subtle fear I have about ABS also. Some motorcycles are known to have this problem, especially on gravel.

It does seem like a malfunction to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zirconx View Post
Are you suggesting he didn't brake? That he just forgot to pull the lever or something, and posted this video & post to troll us?

If there was a brake malfunction, as he suggests, then the front wouldn't dive. That's why you don't see the angle of the front of the bike change.

I've felt something similar, trying to slow down but the bike wasn't cooperating. This is my first bike with ABS also so I'm not sure what to expect... It only happened once and I chalked it up to human error. It happened so fast and then was working, I wasn't sure if it even happened. Because how could that happen, right? That would be so dangerous if you pulled the brake the the antilock just decided not to stop!?
I have to say, after viewing your video:
FIRST - I saw NO evidence that you came to a STOP before the left turn, and at NO time did I see your front 'dive' which would happen w/ use of the front brakes; and
SECOND - at NO time up to your "collision" did I see your front end 'dive'. Appears to me that you failed to use any front brakes.

I have 'tested' my ABS (2015 650ABS) on BOTH dirt and pavement, by getting to speed, then grabbing a "hand-full" (or right foot-full...) till it cycled. There's a LOT of front-end dive when I did that.

HOPE you figure out what happened....
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post #15 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by zirconx View Post
Wow that is scary - the idea that you grab your brakes when you need them and the antilock kicks in and doesn't let you stop! That's a subtle fear I have about ABS also. Some motorcycles are known to have this problem, especially on gravel.

It does seem like a malfunction to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zirconx View Post
Are you suggesting he didn't brake? That he just forgot to pull the lever or something, and posted this video & post to troll us?

If there was a brake malfunction, as he suggests, then the front wouldn't dive. That's why you don't see the angle of the front of the bike change.

I've felt something similar, trying to slow down but the bike wasn't cooperating. This is my first bike with ABS also so I'm not sure what to expect... It only happened once and I chalked it up to human error. It happened so fast and then was working, I wasn't sure if it even happened. Because how could that happen, right? That would be so dangerous if you pulled the brake the the antilock just decided not to stop!?
I have to say, after viewing your video:
FIRST - I saw NO evidence that you came to a STOP before the left turn, and at NO time did I see your front 'dive' which would happen w/ use of the front brakes; and
SECOND - at NO time up to your "collision" did I see your front end 'dive'. Appears to me that you failed to use any front brakes.

I have 'tested' my ABS (2015 650ABS) on BOTH dirt and pavement, by getting to speed, then grabbing a "hand-full" (or right foot-full...) till it cycled. There's a LOT of front-end dive when I did that. I've also used the brakes (on dirt) going downhill on loose surfaces, and it NEVER failed to brake for me....

HOPE you figure out what happened so you don't repeat it....

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post #16 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 06:37 PM
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Has the video been deleted???

I still have a full deck.
I just shuffle slower.
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post #17 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by fasteddiecopeman View Post
I have to say, after viewing your video:
FIRST - I saw NO evidence that you came to a STOP before the left turn, and at NO time did I see your front 'dive' which would happen w/ use of the front brakes; and
SECOND - at NO time up to your "collision" did I see your front end 'dive'. Appears to me that you failed to use any front brakes.

I have 'tested' my ABS (2015 650ABS) on BOTH dirt and pavement, by getting to speed, then grabbing a "hand-full" (or right foot-full...) till it cycled. There's a LOT of front-end dive when I did that.

HOPE you figure out what happened....
I disagree. I saw his front end dip initially and then the brakes let go. It's not a fault of the ABS, it's how they work. If there had been additional space, they would have surely come back on.
The issue to me doesn't seem to be that they let go, but for how long they let go. I went out and did intentional hard braking; causing my Thruxy's brakes to scream today. Never did I even get the ABS to even kick on. Whatever was in the road yesterday sure caused them to let go. And it seemed like a loooong time before they re-engaged.
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post #18 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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I have to say, after viewing your video:
FIRST - I saw NO evidence that you came to a STOP before the left turn, and at NO time did I see your front 'dive' which would happen w/ use of the front brakes; and
SECOND - at NO time up to your "collision" did I see your front end 'dive'. Appears to me that you failed to use any front brakes.

I have 'tested' my ABS (2015 650ABS) on BOTH dirt and pavement, by getting to speed, then grabbing a "hand-full" (or right foot-full...) till it cycled. There's a LOT of front-end dive when I did that. I've also used the brakes (on dirt) going downhill on loose surfaces, and it NEVER failed to brake for me....

HOPE you figure out what happened so you don't repeat it....
First - I am not interested to hear you criticizing me for how i ride or how i abide (or not) the law. I am here to hear your opinion on the bike's behavior and whether you think there is a problem with its ABS. With that being said, I know im not saint and sometimes i don't fully stop at a stop sign, but in this case it's absolutely irrelevant.
Second - I said earlier but I will repeat; I DIDN'T use the rear brake at all. I only used the FRONT brake. You must be blind if you can't see the initial dive.
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post #19 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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Has the video been deleted???
The video works, i just checked. The link is on top.
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post #20 of 76 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 08:27 PM
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I have to say, after viewing your video:
...
SECOND - at NO time up to your "collision" did I see your front end 'dive'. Appears to me that you failed to use any front brakes.
..
You can see the nose dive about 1:02 into the video (or 13:08:51 using the on-screen time code), it's most noticeable if you watch the upper right corner of the frame.

I don't know why you are coming on here accusing people of lying, if you have nothing positive to contribute, why not just stay silent? Your critical post does not contribute to this community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
Are you kidding me, vaulter? Blaming the ABS? Did you not see the vehicle in front of you? It's obviously your complete lack of riding skills that's to blame. It's pretty damn obvious, even with no audio.... Seriously. WTF, vaulter? How much alcohol did you have in your blood? You're so lucky you didn't get busted.
Do you know the poster and are kidding with him or something? I hope you don't really speak to people this way.

It's an odd phenomenon that when someone has the courage to post their mistakes (yes this poster has some fault in this and has admitted to it), the community is so quick to demonize them. I've seen it on other motorcycle forums too, and I'm sad to find it here.
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Last edited by zirconx; 10-17-2016 at 08:40 PM.
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