Are older riders less safe than younger? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
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Are older riders less safe than younger?

Although this article pertains specifically to Oregon, I suspect the statistics in other states might be the similar. The article is basically about how older riders (returning after many years of not riding) are buying large machines and killing themselves at a rather high rate. Given that many Versys riders have "shades of grey", I thought this might be an interesting read.

http://www.oregonlive.com/clark-coun...ules_help.html
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post #2 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 04:10 PM
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I read that last night. First thing that I thought of is that motorcycles are so expensive now that a lot of younger people can't afford them. You throw an older rider on a high powered bike with little/no experience and it will be trouble.

No idea if it is accurate but I would think that a younger rider would be more likely to take the MSF course also which I know has saved my life multiple times.

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post #3 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 04:15 PM
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No idea if it is accurate but I would think that a younger rider would be more likely to take the MSF course also which I know has saved my life multiple times.
Ditto!!
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post #4 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 04:37 PM
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I think the condition of an old person's body has something to do with it. In general a youngster could take a fall and walk away from it and an oldster has a higher chance of breaking a hip or worse.


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post #5 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 05:46 PM
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I think age is irrelevant.

I am 23 now. Started riding in March (at 22). I took the MSF, got a Ninja 250, and religiously follow ATGATT.

Did I get made fun of relentlessly for my choices by others my age on their Gixxers and R6/R1s? Abso-freaking-lutely.

Did I care? Nope

Guess who can smoke em in the twisties?

That being said, if a person is an aggressive person that likes to push the limits, their age won't matter. I realize that feeling of invincibility wears off with age, but it never goes away if you ask me.

As for me? I don't care about the speed, I'm all about the riiiiide!

Pick up my V tomorrow. WIN!
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post #6 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 06:00 PM
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Reading that article, they mention the new law going into effect. It seems a little backward to me, if what they're saying is true about older bikers dying more often, why require the younger guys to take the MSF? Why not make EVERYBODY take it? And why graduate it like that? It doesn't make sense to me to do it that way.



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post #7 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 06:02 PM
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That being said, if a person is an aggressive person that likes to push the limits, their age won't matter. I realize that feeling of invincibility wears off with age, but it never goes away if you ask me.
Totally agree - (riding since 17 and 49 today )

Think a clue is riding with other people? as trying to keeping up with faster riders is an age old problemm not to mention the danger of group riding anyway. I also wonder what type of bikes a lot of these peope were riding? Cruisers and particualry Harleys are dangerous unless well in their limits in my experince. I suspect cruiser riders in general arent used to pushing on so it all gets out of shape quickly.

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post #8 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 07:53 PM
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My opinion, backed up by some statistics, is that there's alcohol involved in roughly half those fatal crashes too. http://seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Senior...09-02Bikes.htm One factor IMO may be that older drivers who are used to getting away with a couple of beers when driving a car find out the hard way it's a different story on a moto.

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post #9 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 08:24 PM
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My opinion, backed up by some statistics, is that there's alcohol involved in roughly half those fatal crashes too. http://seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Senior...09-02Bikes.htm One factor IMO may be that older drivers who are used to getting away with a couple of beers when driving a car find out the hard way it's a different story on a moto.

Ah, very good!



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post #10 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 08:25 PM
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I was going to pipe in with, well there are many more 'older' riders nowadays living the dream that they couldn't afford in their younger years and the stats. were likely skewed.

After reading the story though none of the other factors really matter much. The fact remains us older farts need to be a little more conservative when we ride, realizing our days of pushing the envelope are over. Even with a small bike(Versys) too much heat in the corners(that you can't always see around going in) can be a recipe for disaster....add in a dash of beautiful scenery and spectators and tired outta shape old farts(GRANDPAS)...deadly recipe.
Good eye-opening story...terrible stats.

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post #11 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 08:29 PM
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So, we, as a society now have to hold the hands of ignorant motorcyclists and force them to do what is right? If they die from ignorance, oh well! Natural selection, I guess.

Yeah, I know, pretty cold, but think about it. All the resources to help with this "problem" are currently widely available and inexpensive. It's not my fault they die or my responsibility to educate those who choose to be stupid, or worse yet, have to pay for their irresponsibility. It's not my job to tell them "it's time to step off the bike, Grampa".

This is simply a clever bureaucratic mechanism designed to redistribute the public wealth to protect morons who won't even wear helmets, much less take an MSF course. Next step in Oregon's plan will likely be to have MSF refresher courses every two years (or one!). The cost of the MSF courses will go up exponentially (gotta have it, why not charge more?), as well as raise your taxes (even if you don't ride a bike) to cover the Guvmint administrative costs, including hiring additional public employees (with the associated wages, pension plans and health insurance expenses required) to implement the plan. All this for yet more inane, parasitic, useless government interference in your life. I PASS. Sounds like a "jobs" plan to me. Do they do this in the UK?

This is moronic. Apparently the "sheeple" in Oregon approved this(Easy now, I used to live there, I was your neighbor). They should have paid more attention and now have to pay the price

My Personal Plan:
I'm 62 and I take the MSF about every 3 years, "voluntarily and at my own expense", and plan to take a sportbike course next year (maybe Code's). Nobody has to tell me to do it. I can't learn and practice enough. I know how critical this is. As a matter of fact, every ride combines enjoyment along with practicing some aspect of riding that I feel I need to brush up on (which oddly enough, is also enjoyable to me because there's always room to improve). I have always lived for the challenge to hone my skills, whatever I do. That's how I stay alive, stay young, AND have fun. (I can testify that cornering well at speed is my drug, but I know when, where, how to do it safely, and I practice it every chance I get.)

Conclusion: I'm so tired of how Americans have dumbed down and have to have bureaucrats run every little detail of their lives (and pick their pockets as they do). Just do the right thing on your own, it's simple. Everything and everyone else will sort themselves out eventually.

My View/Rant

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post #12 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 08:33 PM
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Why not make EVERYBODY take it? And why graduate it like that? It doesn't make sense to me to do it that way.
That is the new law in Texas. You want a scooter license, you have to take the MSF.

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My opinion, backed up by some statistics, is that there's alcohol involved in roughly half those fatal crashes too.
I want to say that I've read recently it is closer to 80%, but I don't recall where I read it. It may have been AMA.

Quote:
Cruisers and particualry Harleys are dangerous unless well in their limits in my experince. I suspect cruiser riders in general arent used to pushing on so it all gets out of shape quickly.
Ever notice how many Harley's you see for sale with only a few thousand miles on them? Many of these are the machines that folks bought so they could look cool at the bar. I know quite a few of these guys and that's all they do. They ride bar to bar. None of them actually ride any distance. I suspect, like many of you I think, that the average fatality is either a cruiser rider or a rice rocket rider and both of them are relatively close to home and either involve alcohol or speed combined with inexperience and/or the group dynamic.




...and Verst...I couldn't agree more. We're going to bureaucracy ourselves into the abyss of communism.

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post #13 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 08:47 PM
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So, we, as a society now have to hold the hands of ignorant motorcyclists and force them to do what is right? If they die from ignorance, oh well! Natural selection, I guess.

Yeah, I know, pretty cold, but think about it. All the resources to help with this "problem" are currently widely available and inexpensive. It's not my fault they die or my responsibility to educate those who choose to be stupid, or worse yet, have to pay for their irresponsibility. It's not my job to tell them "it's time to step off the bike, Grampa".

This is simply a clever bureaucratic mechanism designed to redistribute the public wealth to protect morons who won't even wear helmets, much less take an MSF course. Next step in Oregon's plan will likely be to have MSF refresher courses every two years (or one!). The cost of the MSF courses will go up exponentially (gotta have it, why not charge more?), as well as raise your taxes (even if you don't ride a bike) to cover the Guvmint administrative costs, including hiring additional public employees (with the associated wages, pension plans and health insurance expenses required) to implement the plan. All this for yet more inane, parasitic, useless government interference in your life. I PASS. Sounds like a "jobs" plan to me. Do they do this in the UK?

This is moronic. Apparently the "sheeple" in Oregon approved this(Easy now, I used to live there, I was your neighbor). They should have paid more attention and now have to pay the price

My Personal Plan:
I'm 62 and I take the MSF about every 3 years, "voluntarily and at my own expense", and plan to take a sportbike course next year (maybe Code's). Nobody has to tell me to do it. I can't learn and practice enough. I know how critical this is. As a matter of fact, every ride combines enjoyment along with practicing some aspect of riding that I feel I need to brush up on (which oddly enough, is also enjoyable to me because there's always room to improve). I have always lived for the challenge to hone my skills, whatever I do. That's how I stay alive, stay young, AND have fun. (I can testify that cornering well at speed is my drug, but I know when, where, how to do it safely, and I practice it every chance I get.)

Conclusion: I'm so tired of how Americans have dumbed down and have to have bureaucrats run every little detail of their lives (and pick their pockets as they do). Just do the right thing on your own, it's simple. Everything and everyone else will sort themselves out eventually.

My View/Rant

V-Zee
As cold as it may sound, I agree with you to an extent, we're grown adults who SHOULD be able to think for ourselves, which is why I'm against helmet laws. But I have no problem with the MSF being required before getting a license. They passed that law here in Tx recently. I'm ALL for education. And like some have said before, there will always be people who make poor choices, no matter how educated or how much gear they have. You just CAN'T prevent every bad scenario.



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That is the new law in Texas. You want a scooter license, you have to take the MSF.



I want to say that I've read recently it is closer to 80%, but I don't recall where I read it. It may have been AMA.



Ever notice how many Harley's you see for sale with only a few thousand miles on them? Many of these are the machines that folks bought so they could look cool at the bar. I know quite a few of these guys and that's all they do. They ride bar to bar. None of them actually ride any distance. I suspect, like many of you I think, that the average fatality is either a cruiser rider or a rice rocket rider and both of them are relatively close to home and either involve alcohol or speed combined with inexperience and/or the group dynamic.
Yep, new law here in Tx. Gotta have the MSF before getting your license. Just went through this with Bear Cub daughter. She is licensed, and I STILL won't let her ride by herself yet. Which brings a good point (to further throw this thread off track), the MSF course does teach a little safety & theory, but after all is said & done, you now know how to ride around in circles in a parking lot at slow speeds. My baby girl is in NO WAY ready for the big open road. We're riding together, but it will take time.



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post #14 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 08:51 PM
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I think the condition of an old person's body has something to do with it. In general a youngster could take a fall and walk away from it and an oldster has a higher chance of breaking a hip or worse.
God, do I ever feel old now!

Oldster??? What the Hell is that? Like...a 1918 Oldsmobile Roadster??

Where DO the children come up with these things, Mary?

HAHAHAHA! So Funny!

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post #15 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 09:16 PM
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I think the condition of an old person's body has something to do with it. In general a youngster could take a fall and walk away from it and an oldster has a higher chance of breaking a hip or worse.

HAhahaha!!! That's funny! I missed it the first time around!! Thanks Vee!!





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post #16 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 09:35 PM
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I suspect it has a lot to do with what age you really learn to ride. I am a new rider at age 46. I mostly stay pretty conservative. I drove all manner of trucks and trailers my whole life, run snowmobiles, have taken performance driving courses, all of which I think made me observant, better aware of the physics, and much more of a 'plan ahead' driver.

But that said, I simply do not learn as fast as when I was younger, whether it's riding or language or software or whatever. I did pilot's training a few years back and decided it wasn't for me and dropped it. My pilot friends said I would do fine, but there's something about learning the deep seated feel of an athletic and intellectual pursuit like flying and riding that is easier done young.

(Personally, I hope to keep my attitude in the right place to stay safe. I was taking flying lessons in a pretty hot little plane. Their forum was active like this one. In general, the tone of the board was one of safety, but you could tell underneath that it was a bunch of very successful, hard charging, rich guys who thought themselves invincible. More power to the riders on this board whose safety attitudes are sincere, not covers for some sense of superiority. It was one reason I quit flying. I didn't like the company.)
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post #17 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 10:08 PM
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I was the youngest guy when I took the msf course. I stop by every once in a while to see my instructor and see mostly older folks taking the course.

It seems that most older people that I see at the msf class lack basic balance. They have their "outriggers" out most of the time. I've seen a couple show up to class on big beautiful harleys but they can barely handle the little 250 in the parking lot. Grabbing too much front brake and just not being smooth.

Also, it seems like it's the older crowd who don't wear helmets. Or any protective gear for that matter. I don't understand why they are so stubborn.
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post #18 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 10:11 PM
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My Personal Plan:
I'm 62 and I take the MSF about every 3 years, "voluntarily and at my own expense", and plan to take a sportbike course next year (maybe Code's).
Just an idea....if it's the same instructor he will probably let you sit in on the class without registering or paying for it. If you have any kind of relationship with the instructor. I stop by and see my instructor every couple months or when I have some free time.
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post #19 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 11:27 PM
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I'm an older rider.. I took the MSF course.. not taking it makes no sense.. take the course.. what you learn could save your life.. as we get older we just don't have the reflexes we did when we were younger.. gotta take it easy... I don't believe the power of the bikes is the problem... it's judgement... taking the course helps... I've lobbied for MSF to make an over 50 course availiable... heck make it mandatory... and wear hi viz green so you can be seen and get your eyes where you want the bike to go..
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post #20 of 56 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 11:54 PM
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Just an idea....if it's the same instructor he will probably let you sit in on the class without registering or paying for it. If you have any kind of relationship with the instructor. I stop by and see my instructor every couple months or when I have some free time.
Good tip! Next time around I'll give it a shot.

I do know the instructors and was asked if I was interested in teaching last time. I couldn't do then, but may next year.

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