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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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Abs?

Hi all -

Having spent some time the last few days on the bike in rainy weather - every once in a while the thought came through my head saying - "if the guy in front of me hits the breaks hard - there is no way I can keep the bike up"

Anyway = has anyone had a bike with ABS and does it work as advertisted on a cycle. I am considering a Tiger or Vstrom (god forbid) just for this reason - although I would prefer to keep the Versys - can't understand why they won't bring over their euro model...

Thanks.


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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 03:38 PM
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Hi all -

Having spent some time the last few days on the bike in rainy weather - every once in a while the thought came through my head saying - "if the guy in front of me hits the breaks hard - there is no way I can keep the bike up"

Thanks.

.... so the answer is ABS is it?


..NO the answer is to ride leaving a sufficient gap such that you CAN brake in time, or you have an exit route elsewhere in case someone does slam on the anchors in front of you
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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.... so the answer is ABS is it?


..NO the answer is to ride leaving a sufficient gap such that you CAN brake in time, or you have an exit route elsewhere in case someone does slam on the anchors in front of you


Not asking about the gap or about driving expertise - I am asking about emergency stopping that happens regardless of driving protocal - Does it work, is it worth the $$ and does anyone have experience with ABS on a cycle?


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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 08:22 PM
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.... so the answer is ABS is it?


..NO the answer is to ride leaving a sufficient gap such that you CAN brake in time, or you have an exit route elsewhere in case someone does slam on the anchors in front of you
+1

CSA, No need to get your dander up, you started the thread and it's fair game to advance the thought that in most situations, the thinking man has a distinct advantage over one who has ABS, expecting it to save his ass. Many old school riders (myself included) are hesitant to endorse technology that frees people from the need to fully develop their riding skills. What happens when the ABS fuse blows?

To very specifically answer your last questions.......Not necessarily, to both. Regardless of technology, your individual skill is still the most important factor.

But, aside all of that, what about Traction Control??

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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 08:49 PM
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Yes ABS works, at least on the BMW I had. But...it still won't keep you from hitting the guy in front of you if you are following too close.....but at least the wheels wouldn't be locked up when you hit him.......! I don't miss the ABS a bit. I never trusted it anyway.


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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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+1

CSA, No need to get your dander up, you started the thread and it's fair game to advance the thought that in most situations, the thinking man has a distinct advantage over one who has ABS, expecting it to save his ass. Many old school riders (myself included) are hesitant to endorse technology that frees people from the need to fully develop their riding skills. What happens when the ABS fuse blows?

To very specifically answer your last questions.......Not necessarily, to both. Regardless of technology, your individual skill is still the most important factor.

But, aside all of that, what about Traction Control??

V-Zee
Agreed - good skills trump - but in the case of a lapse, or some other idiot that does something crazy and you have to apply maximum braking...what I am looking for is if the ABS system will keep you stable enough to keep the bike in order, or are you just as likely to lay it down? My car has it - but 4 wheels - and the dynamic of ABS and traction control on two wheels has me curios - is it worth it? A nay from you...tnx...that is what i am looking for.

Apologies if I was a bit gruff - putting ego aside we all make mistakes and I am simply wondering if in anyone's experience ABS saved their butt!...or otherwise? tnx


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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 09:08 PM
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ABS doesn't make you stop faster.



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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 09:21 PM
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Generally, when it comes to quick stopping, I find that quads and calves are more useful...
Seriously though; my previous ride (Scarabeo 500 GT) had ABS, and it can be helpful; anything that can produce a quicker, more stable stop is a Good Thing, IMO. You just need to know what you've got to stop with, and respond accordingly.

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 10:36 PM
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Question is would you do what to do when the abs engages?
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 11:59 PM
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ABS or no ABS you are still on 2 WHEELS, so the rider is more in control of situations than ABS is.

Of cause it will add a bit of confidence at the same time take some away. depends on what angle you are looking at.


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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 05:06 AM
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there are examples of where ABS on a bike has meant the rider stops in a shorter distance
that clip indicates that an experienced rider well used to modulating the brakes doesn't see much of an improvement using ABS, the normal everyday rider saw a significant improvement, even t the racer saw a significant improvement both around 17m shorter from 70MPH. SO ABS can and does reduce stopping distance.

so ABS may help you stop in a shorter time, but don't rely on it.
theres another youtube clip of honda demonstrating using ABS on sand which showed impressive improvements in braking ability.. but it only helps in a straight line. so ABS can help you brake on trickier surfaces

for me when I buy my next bike if there is an ABS option and its not stupidly expensive then I would buy one with ABS, its not a "must have" its a "nice to have". after all bikes have been around 100+ years without ABS so they are not some recently invented uber tool. ABS on cars is a different matter there ABS works in straigh tlines, on corners wherever. I wouldn't have a car without ABS (or traction control/Electronic Stability program)

however I make the same observation if there are several times when you are thinking can I stop in time then you are riding to close or don't fully know the braking capability of your bike. I suspect that like safety belts in cars, introduced to reduce injuries in a car crash had the unforeseen side effect of making people feel safer and therefore go faster. the same may be true of ABS (I can stop faster therefore I can go closer)... thats why I saying get to grips with your braking capability and plan the distance accordingly. it doesn't matter if you have ABS or not whatever is the braking capability (of you on the bike) is the minimum distance between you and the object in front.

t
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 09:34 AM Thread Starter
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there are examples of where ABS on a bike has meant the rider stops in a shorter distance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kO6ltk3a0
that clip indicates that an experienced rider well used to modulating the brakes doesn't see much of an improvement using ABS, the normal everyday rider saw a significant improvement, even t the racer saw a significant improvement both around 17m shorter from 70MPH. SO ABS can and does reduce stopping distance.

so ABS may help you stop in a shorter time, but don't rely on it.
theres another youtube clip of honda demonstrating using ABS on sand which showed impressive improvements in braking ability.. but it only helps in a straight line. so ABS can help you brake on trickier surfaces

for me when I buy my next bike if there is an ABS option and its not stupidly expensive then I would buy one with ABS, its not a "must have" its a "nice to have". after all bikes have been around 100+ years without ABS so they are not some recently invented uber tool. ABS on cars is a different matter there ABS works in straigh tlines, on corners wherever. I wouldn't have a car without ABS (or traction control/Electronic Stability program)

however I make the same observation if there are several times when you are thinking can I stop in time then you are riding to close or don't fully know the braking capability of your bike. I suspect that like safety belts in cars, introduced to reduce injuries in a car crash had the unforeseen side effect of making people feel safer and therefore go faster. the same may be true of ABS (I can stop faster therefore I can go closer)... thats why I saying get to grips with your braking capability and plan the distance accordingly. it doesn't matter if you have ABS or not whatever is the braking capability (of you on the bike) is the minimum distance between you and the object in front.

t
Tnx - agree with your assessment - I am a pretty cautious rider (and have the chicken strips to prove it) but would spring for a new V in an instant with ABS, even if it only marginally helps (as that may be the difference between a small problem and a big problem). Most bikes we are talking $1000 to $1500 add on, IMHO a small price to pay for a safer bike in an emergency.

I would put myself in the dedicated hobbyist mode - about 5k per year on the bike and I don't kid myself that I have close to professional skills - Been riding for 3 years on the street - hence the thread.

Scott


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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 10:25 AM
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CSA,
Wasn't trying to give you hard time. I am always concerned about giving advice on items that could affect anyone's safety. In those terms, I truly believe that training, education, and experience should first be gained, then enhanced by technology. I worry about people seeking a crutch prematurely (not to say you are), and then being unable to deal with the actual situation in an emergency, regardless of the technology.

In the clip, it was noted that the rider who does most of the brake tests showed only a 4-5 meter difference which they attributed to experience. I would have to say that learning to ride and gaining experience has a greater impact upon the result than the technology, overall. The consensus is that ABS does help and I agree. I just don't consider it something designed to save you from imprudence.

In fairness, I will be getting my new bike in May of next year and it will have both ABS as well as, traction control. I look forward to it because as much as I may feel my reaction times haven't increased, good sense tells me perhaps a 62 year old could use a little help. In other words, I couldn't come up with that 5 meter difference of a 35 year old (duh). A man's got to know(and compensate for) his limitations, and I do.

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 10:54 AM
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My take on ABS is it's a safety device in an emergency.
ABS (Anti Braking System) prevent the wheels from locking up. But most importantly, in a panic situation, anymore may/can jam the brakes HARD.
NO one can predict emergencies.

I ridden BMW for a long time and ABS had saved my bacon once or twice. Get it if it comes with the bike. My V is non-ABS and I know it's limitations.

If I had to choose between a bike with or without ABS, I'll choose the ABS one.

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 11:04 AM
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I would like to know how the hell those guys managed to break so hard at 80mph, keep the bike straight, and not fall over ???

Even if I managed to not topple in the first 5 metres, Im sure it would take me a lot more than 80 metres to stop at that speed
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 12:24 PM
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I would like to know how the hell those guys managed to break so hard at 80mph, keep the bike straight, and not fall over ???

Even if I managed to not topple in the first 5 metres, Im sure it would take me a lot more than 80 metres to stop at that speed
simples
the guys who stopped in the sub 50m distance are professional or semi professional riders. one even test rides bikes at Bruntingthorpe (testing brakes amongst other things) there regularly. it like those who questioned Gary Plamer about his luck, his response "the more he practised the luckier he got"

the regular joe rider was braking in nearly twice the distance.. perhaps that what we should bear in mind when judging braking distance, not the minimum achieved by an expert but the average joe, after adding on perhaps a second or two for additional reaction time
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 03:19 AM
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Even the average Joe kept the bike up and straight, do you think he is really that average?
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