V 1000 / Bike wont turn over, dead after a day - Page 3 - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #41 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by JackImpact View Post
I have a V1000, I just accidentally posted in the V650 section.

I honestly do not care about the clock. I would prefer it worked correctly but if all I were to lose is a clock I never check thats ok.
And yes I looked at the V1000 service manual, the simple solution would be to mount a relay up front where the accessory relay is mounted, cut the 7.5 amp wire and connect to those wires to #30 and #87 , connect the 85 to your auxiliary positive output wire and 86 to ground.When your bike is running everything will be powered, key off and same thing.This is provided you don't have the immobilizer.
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post #42 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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Could I not just pull the fuse so the display doesnt work?
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post #43 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 11:44 AM
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Could I not just pull the fuse so the display doesnt work?
Yes you could, however you would need to install it on every ride. And remember to remove it after every ride.
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post #44 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by JackImpact View Post
the new battery that tested good at the store I have left unhooked from the bike so that it does not get ran dead.
Understood. Just trying to understand the details of whether the bike really has a draw (you said you never noticed it with the old battery) or if the presence of the new, bad battery is being indicative of some newly occurring draw. Not unheard of to see a "new" battery bad out of the box. We used to see a particular brand once a week that was bad! Personally, I'd install the new battery and check voltage every few hours. Again, sorry if I missed a detail where more than the "new" battery going bad indicating a deeper problem.

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'09 V650, several others too!
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post #45 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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I just want someone to clarify for me, as I am currently ignorant.

Is this meter reading .17 mA?

Which would be 0.00017 ampere?

If so, then is that not inside the safe range we spoke about earlier?
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post #46 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by JackImpact View Post
I just want someone to clarify for me, as I am currently ignorant.

Is this meter reading .17 mA?

Which would be 0.00017 ampere?

If so, then is that not inside the safe range we spoke about earlier?
You have two ranges, 10 amp,and 200 mA. I took a closer look, you have a 200 mA range, use that and measure again. The original photo is 170 to 200 milliamp. On the 200mA range it may show overload, but is far more accurate. When you measure this, wait a couple hours with the fuse in, that way when you measure it should be within the 200 mA range, if you measure immediately after the bike has been run or after the battery tender has been removed, you will hit peak current, which may exceed your 200 mA range.
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post #47 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackImpact View Post
I just want someone to clarify for me, as I am currently ignorant.

Is this meter reading .17 mA?

Which would be 0.00017 ampere?

If so, then is that not inside the safe range we spoke about earlier?
You have two ranges, 10 amp,and 200 mA. I took a closer look, you have a 200 mA range, use that and measure again. The original photo is 170 to 200 milliamp. On the 200mA range it may show overload, but is far more accurate. When you measure this, wait a couple hours with the fuse in, that way when you measure it should be within the 200 mA range, if you measure immediately after the bike has been run or after the battery tender has been removed, you will hit peak current, which may exceed your 200 mA range.
On 200m it reads between 00.1 and 00.2
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post #48 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackImpact View Post
I just want someone to clarify for me, as I am currently ignorant.

Is this meter reading .17 mA?

Which would be 0.00017 ampere?

If so, then is that not inside the safe range we spoke about earlier?
They say a picture is worth a 1000 words, how true, that photo of the meter helped me, FYI the minus symbol only means it was discharging, if you had it on the 10 amp range, and started the bike ( short your connection that is momentarily connect the battery clamp to the top of the battery while starting, once running you would see the charge current going into the battery and the symbol would show +, expect the charge current to be around 6 to 8 amp on the beginning of the warm up at idle, it should drop to about 1.2 to 2 amp after warm up ( 10 minutes), this is approximate.

The reason to short out the meter leads/ the battery cable to positive battery post is your meter can't handle the inrush current needed to start the bike, at the same time, disconnecting the battery post while running, chances are pretty good that the bike will quite as there is what is called ripple in the charge current from the regulator ( AC component ) .

A alternate method would be to have a cheap motorcycle battery charger ( one that outputs 1 to 2 amp irregardless if there is a battery connected to it, that is if you took a signal light bulb and connected to the charger alligators and the bulb would illuminate ) hooked up to the battery positive and negative connection while attached to the battery, start the bike and then with the charger still connected remove the positive post wire connection from the battery, next connect the meter positive on the positive terminal and meter negative to the wire connection of the positive post that has the positive charger connected to it.

Unplug the charger, the current read on the 10 amp range is the charge current going into the battery, make sure you are at idle, pay attention, while at idle turn on your high beam , continue until the fan comes on, at some point you will be going minus - , normally with low beam on and the fan off you should be positive i.e. charging the battery, as you only have what I call base load ( high beam off and Fan NOT running), if you are discharging the battery, i.e. minus on the meter at idle, your idle RPM is too low, My 2015 650 Versys idles at 1500 RPM, the V1000 has a higher output stator but also has a much higher base load due to 2 more stick coils.

Last edited by onewizard; 09-28-2019 at 12:43 PM.
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post #49 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, so we are now on the same page that this is only drawing 0.0001-0.0002 amps on the meter. And not some crazy amount that's killing the battery?

And next I should check what the current is going into the battery at idle?
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post #50 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 01:54 PM
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Manual Tenma 72-4025 / 10 A / 20 mA Range

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Ok, so we are now on the same page that this is only drawing 0.0001-0.0002 amps on the meter. And not some crazy amount that's killing the battery?

And next I should check what the current is going into the battery at idle?
Well when I looked a third time at you first photos, enlarged the photo on my laptop I noticed the 10 amp is also 20 milliamp auto ranging, so using your 200 mA range that shows 10 to 20 mA , which is high!


Spent the last 15 minutes trying to find a manual on that meter, it is what is described as a 3 1/2 digit meter, what I don't know is if that 0.1 is 10 milliamp or 1 milliamp, same with the 0.2 on the 200 mA range.A photo of the manual pages for current measuring would be helpful. One way would be to use the 10 amp range, use the method I described about starting and running the bike, take a photo showing the charge current , watch the meter while keying off, the display should change to minus and the meter may have had a decimal place before or not.


https://www.edn.com/electronics-news...-digit-anyway-

The problem I am having is your meter is a 3.5 digit meter, the very first digit is a 1 or zero, so for 200 mA it would show 199.9 mA , however all your photos show 3 digits plus the minus symbol. What I don't know is if that meter has a auto range on the 200 mA range , 200 mA might be 19.9 on your display, the confusing part is the first photos showing 0.17 using the 10 / 20mA range. To go any further , the only way would be to use another known load such as a fixed resistor , a 600 to 650 ohm at 1/4 watt should read 20 mA @ 12.6 VDC , a 1200 to 1260 ohm at 1/4 watt should read 10 mA at 12.6 VDC.
( , a led bulb with a known wattage)
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post #51 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
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When I had it on 20m/10a the red lead was plugged into mA and not 10A
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post #52 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
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I jumped it on and with fan and high beam on I'm about -0.73. this is on the 20m/10A with the lead on 10A. Positive battery terminal to negative multimeter lead, and positive multimeter lead to positive bike wire.
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post #53 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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It idle it was a bit higher in charging.
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post #54 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 02:00 PM
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Electrical / Very Little escapes me/ This One Does

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On 200m it reads between 00.1 and 00.2
That meter defies all logic for a 3.5 digit meter, I have tried finding a manual, so have many others without luck, without knowing how to interpret that dsiplay, it could be as originally posted , 170 to 200 mA, one question I have, does the display change on the 200 mA range from 00.1 when you disconnect the leads?
I am suggesting the 200 mA range may have a blown fuse.
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post #55 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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That meter defies all logic for a 3.5 digit meter, I have tried finding a manual, so have many others without luck, without knowing how to interpret that dsiplay, it could be as originally posted , 170 to 200 mA, one question I have, does the display change on the 200 mA range from 00.1 when you disconnect the leads?
I am suggesting the 200 mA range may have a blown fuse.
The fuse looked good to me.

I have a theory, since I dont have the manual.

When the red lead is plugged into mA, and you set it to 20m/10A, it reads a max of 20mA.

If you plug the red lead into 10A, and set it to 20m/10A, it reads a max of 10A.

That would make sense considering my reading, on 20m/10 of .17-.20 was done with the red lead in the mA.

Because then on the 200m, with red lead in mA, I got this reading.
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post #56 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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That meter defies all logic for a 3.5 digit meter, I have tried finding a manual, so have many others without luck, without knowing how to interpret that dsiplay, it could be as originally posted , 170 to 200 mA, one question I have, does the display change on the 200 mA range from 00.1 when you disconnect the leads?
I am suggesting the 200 mA range may have a blown fuse.
Do you mean when I unhook the leads from the battery/wire or when I unplug them from the multimeter?
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post #57 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 04:42 PM
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Do you mean when I unhook the leads from the battery/wire or when I unplug them from the multimeter?
unhook from battery. Put it this way, leave the 7.5 amp fuse out except when riding, in 3 days or more of sitting try starting it.If it starts you have proven that meter reading is 170 milliamp not 1.7 milliamp. I have been trouble shooting for over 45 years, if you look at my posts on Polaris 4016868 , you will see multiple meters. I still own a minimum of 12 digital meters, all mainly Fluke, calibrators, megger, the old 8060 A , 8020, 189. various amp clamps, both 1000 amp AC/DC and 600 amp AC/DC. To be honest I have absolutely no sure way of saying what your meter is displaying, saying that after 95% of my work was break downs. I have used many other meters, including 3 1/2 digit meters, the very first digit can be a 1 or zero, between the 10amp / 20 mA and 200 mA setting , comparing the display's says two things , one there is a auto range,secondly the values don't compute in my brain which is why I asked about the leads connected.

One step further to prove the Tenma digital meter fuse is good, select 10 amp range and key on, do not press start

Show the results. to protect the meter, short out the positive lead to the battery post for a minimum of 5 seconds , ( this is key on in run position without starting!!)after 3 seconds the fuel pump shuts off and the stick coils turns off

Last edited by onewizard; 09-28-2019 at 04:46 PM.
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post #58 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 04:43 PM
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I believe he's referring to one of the two internal fuses in your meter being open.



Oops... Posted just after onewizard
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post #59 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 04:49 PM
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I believe he's referring to one of the two internal fuses in your meter being open.



Oops... Posted just after onewizard
As in the title, this has got to be one of the most frustrating posts I have dealt with in quite a while.Someone else wants to step in your welcome
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post #60 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 04:55 PM
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After you pointed out the issues with the meter, I'm at a complete loss as well. Everything we've seen has now been called into question.

I'm thinking starting from scratch with a known good meter is the next step. Even an analog meter.
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