Rear Axle Nut Alternative - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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Rear Axle Nut Alternative

hi all,

by the way: the yamaha FJR for at least 2011 has a self-locking axle nut that perfectly fits the rear axle of the versys 1000. i bought one and have it on my 2018 versys....

it is about half the width, so you might need a deep socket to take it on/off...

jim
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 03:55 PM
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brock29609 - I understand your point, but as this Forum is to help other 'inmates', I think that post about the 'lock-nut' has merit, so I figure it stays. In addition I don't believe it will screw-up the sales of those "cotter-pins".

Thanks for your concerns.

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 04:33 PM
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Rear Axle Nut Alternative

You need to ask the OP for more detail, I was too hasty and didn't read the V1000 , thought about the 650 Versys, now that I am putting more thought into this, some things to think about, there are several versions of self locking nuts, some distort the threads, keep in mind this is going to throw the torque value off, may also damage the axle thread. I am just pointing this out.

Last edited by onewizard; 04-23-2019 at 04:39 PM.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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thanks onewizard. didnt realize i posted it where i did. hope it helps here...
jim
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
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i upped the torque when i tightened it. only made sense.

as far as damaging threads, it hasnt on the 2011 JFR so far after quite a few removals, although i acknowledge its likely to be removed more for chain tightening on the versys that various maint on the FJR, over time... i dont believe yamaha would allow a removable item to do damage to a part as important as the rear axle... they're supposed to last the life of the cycle.... (i hope !!)
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 05:58 PM
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New Thread V1000 Technical

Quote:
Originally Posted by brock29609 View Post
brock29609 has reported a post.

Reason:
Post: FOR SALE: Stainless R-clips for rear axle nut (cotter pin alternative)
Forum: For Sale
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Posted by: funflyingguy
Original Content:
All is good, it was a mistake as to post #20 since it was doable & went unnoticed by the poster. Rather than wait, I started a new V1000 technical thread, moved post #20 and then sent PM to Brock and funflyingguy. The PM took about 3 minutes, the move post about 30 seconds.
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 09:07 PM
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they're supposed to last the life of the cycle.... (i hope !!)
Are you sure??

Most selflocking fastenerss are for one time use. Check your fjr manual and if it tells you to replace the nut or reinstall the nut. It should give you a min. Run on torque. If it is less than that torque the selflocking is worn out and needs to be replaced. If you can ever turn it on by hand it is toast, get a new one.

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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 09:12 PM
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Are you sure??

Most selflocking fastenerss are for one time use. Check your fjr manual and if it tells you to replace the nut or reinstall the nut. It should give you a min. Run on torque. If it is less than that torque the selflocking is worn out and needs to be replaced. If you can ever turn it on by hand it is toast, get a new one.
I owned 3 generations of FJRs...'04, '08, and '13, put nearly a quarter million combined miles on them, and changed tires numerous times...never had the nut go bad on any of them.
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 06:15 AM Thread Starter
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no mention of replacing the axle nut in the FJR user's manual. it is permanent.

FYI: nylocs are reuseable also until they no longer hold.

additional note: as a precaution when i initially installed the FJR locking nut, i left the cotter pin in place. i also marked the nut against the axle thread. i'll be watching but it it holds for years on the FJR i dont expect an issue on the versys.

appreciate all the feedback...
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by funflyingguy View Post
hi all,

by the way: the yamaha FJR for at least 2011 has a self-locking axle nut that perfectly fits the rear axle of the versys 1000. i bought one and have it on my 2018 versys....

it is about half the width, so you might need a deep socket to take it on/off...

jim
IMHO that is a good mod. More than a few motorcycles use these locking axle nuts.

I have been using a DR650 (1996 to current) rear axle nut on my 2015 Versys 650 for a whole riding season without any negative effects.
Note: I had marked the nut to be able to verify if it moved. It hasn't.






BTW copper anti-seize was used and the axle nut torqued at 58 lb-ft.


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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
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hi quexpress...

how did you come up with the 58 ft-lbs; just curious... ?
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by funflyingguy View Post
hi quexpress...

how did you come up with the 58 ft-lbs; just curious... ?

For the Gen 3 650, the recommended rear axle nut dry torque is 79.7 lb-ft ... (80 +/-).
Since I used anti-seize, it is now a lubricated thread. 75% of 80 lb-ft is 60 lb-ft. I said 58 but it could very well have been 60.
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I still have a full deck.
I just shuffle slower.

Note: I have no time to waste because Iím older at this moment than Iíve ever been before,
Ö and itís the youngest Iím ever going to get.
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
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sounds reasonable to me; thanks.

by the way; the FJR self-locking not that i used cost me about $10. not bad at all!
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 05:30 PM
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When I had a KLR someone came up w/ a nut that holds the countershaft sprocket ON, called a "prevailing torque" nut (IF I recall correctly).

I installed it, then headed N to meet a friend in Northern BC, to ride with to Inuvik and Alaska. When I stopped for gas I saw oil all over the bike, so my heart about STOPPED.

I went over to a shop and asked IF I could use a breaker-bar and a socket, then retightened the nut, re-filled the sump, and never had another problem w/ it, over that 30 day ride and until I sold the KLR.

-
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fasteddiecopeman View Post
When I had a KLR someone came up w/ a nut that holds the countershaft sprocket ON, called a "prevailing torque" nut (IF I recall correctly).

I installed it, then headed N to meet a friend in Northern BC, to ride with to Inuvik and Alaska. When I stopped for gas I saw oil all over the bike, so my heart about STOPPED.

I went over to a shop and asked IF I could use a breaker-bar and a socket, then retightened the nut, re-filled the sump, and never had another problem w/ it, over that 30 day ride and until I sold the KLR.

-

The rear axle lock nuts are called "Fuji-lock axle nuts".

I still have a full deck.
I just shuffle slower.

Note: I have no time to waste because Iím older at this moment than Iíve ever been before,
Ö and itís the youngest Iím ever going to get.
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 06:32 PM
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IMHO that is a good mod. More than a few motorcycles use these locking axle nuts.

I have been using a DR650 (1996 to current) rear axle nut on my 2015 Versys 650 for a whole riding season without any negative effects.
Note: I had marked the nut to be able to verify if it moved. It hasn't.






BTW copper anti-seize was used and the axle nut torqued at 58 lb-ft.


FYI that is very similar to Kopr Kote https://www.jetlube.com/pages/kopr-koteIND.html, I used it extensively made for T&B at 3 times the price of permatex , ( much finer copper ), used for copper to aluminum and copper to copper high current copper buss connections / applications , it also acts as a corrosion inhibitor. I also use that on all my frame and engine grounds , clean oxide with scotch brite or similar, apply and forget about it. Just a little technical as to how it works, the more expensive has more copper strands, which actually penetrate into the copper and aluminum buss, when you tighten the fastener.
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by onewizard View Post
FYI that is very similar to Kopr Kote https://www.jetlube.com/pages/kopr-koteIND.html, I used it extensively made for T&B at 3 times the price of permatex , ( much finer copper ), used for copper to aluminum and copper to copper high current copper buss connections / applications , it also acts as a corrosion inhibitor. I also use that on all my frame and engine grounds , clean oxide with scotch brite or similar, apply and forget about it. Just a little technical as to how it works, the more expensive has more copper strands, which actually penetrate into the copper and aluminum buss, when you tighten the fastener.
I have been using Permatex, etc. copper anti-seize quite a bit on most of my bikes for many fasteners and grounds (frame and engine).
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Note: I have no time to waste because Iím older at this moment than Iíve ever been before,
Ö and itís the youngest Iím ever going to get.
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old Today, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
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food for thought (not to cause trouble.. LOL)....

if an anti-seize (or perhaps a thread protectant) is used, making the threads 'lubricated', does it make sense to perhaps torque them even more, say an additional 20% over spec, or, perhaps to still use the original spec torque figure? if the goal is to make it a certain difficulty (expressed as torque) for the nut to work its way loose, might one of these do the trick?

hhmmmmmm.......
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old Today, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by funflyingguy View Post
food for thought (not to cause trouble.. LOL)....

if an anti-seize (or perhaps a thread protectant) is used, making the threads 'lubricated', does it make sense to perhaps torque them even more, say an additional 20% over spec, or, perhaps to still use the original spec torque figure? if the goal is to make it a certain difficulty (expressed as torque) for the nut to work its way loose, might one of these do the trick?

hhmmmmmm.......

IMHO that is the BEST GARANTEED WAY to risk stripping the threads. This has been explained previously by engineers in a PDF document that Onewizard posted a while back.


BTW did you notice in my first pic that the axle nut has not moved from its original position for a whole riding season.


Just my 2 Canadian cents ...
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Ö and itís the youngest Iím ever going to get.
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old Today, 12:09 PM Thread Starter
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certainly over-torquing could cause that.

but what about following the book spec torquing as was my second thought?

after more thought:
book torquing lubricated threads might be the same as over-torquing. maybe thats your point, quexpress? i wasnt aware of the PDF document posted by Onewizard.

what i like is that this whole discussion might benefit some not only for axle nut tightening, but for tightening any nut on the bike. some things you can read about, some things you know from experience. sure would rather read about it than break something.....
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Last edited by funflyingguy; Today at 12:37 PM.
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