Z1000SX 2017 Engine Running Hot - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 11:06 AM Thread Starter
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Z1000SX 2017 Engine Running Hot

Kawasaki Brothers & Sisters

I do not ride a Versys (but maybe I should? :-)
I do however ride a 2017 Ninja 1000 (Z1000SX) that I am having cooling issues with.
I found a thread on this forum (Engine running too hot too quickly) by a member (Kawabunga) who is having a very similar issue with his Versys 300 (no one on the Ninja forum is seeing this issue).
I'd really like to get in touch with him and contribute to his thread, but I need to post in here first (totally understand - we all need to fight the bots and spammers!).

So - my name is Rob and I live in Cambridge, Ontario and I am a Kawa-holic.
My riding season has been pretty frustrating so far, so I'm hoping Kawabunga and I can help each other.

Hope all of you are enjoying the riding season so far.

Cheers,

Rob
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silviefox View Post
have you checked to make sure your fan is spinning freely and turning on ? i had a fan fail on my 650 and once replaced worked just fine and never over heated again
Thanks Silviefox

The day it overheated, I can't recall 100% if the fan came on as it was:
1. a total and utter surprise (it never happened last season - which was my first with this specific bike after owning many, many bikes)
2. as I wear ear plugs and shut the bike off immediately I couldn't tell

My guess is that it didn't come on.

That being said, it has come on and run each time the bike reaches 100 C (212 F) as it is designed to do (stopped at a light etc.)
I still feel like the bike is running hotter than it did last season, but can't prove it.
The folks on the Ninja 1000 forum say that these bikes run hot and that if the fan is coming on, it's normal behaviour.

The Kawi tech did mention in his notes that at idle, the fan took a long time to dissipate the heat and shut off.
The fan sounds like it is working correctly, but I wonder if it is running 100% efficiently...

Rob
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silviefox View Post
i would check your fan and also check your rad to make sure the fins are not packed full of stuff. i know on my shadow i hit a few june bugs (huge beetles) and noticed it was getting really hot and the fan was on for long points of time and when i looked it over the rad fins were packed full of guts and bodies. once i cleaned it out it ran like normal again
Rad is clean/clear.
I do have an R&G rad guard on the bike, but put this on right after I got the bike and had no issues all last season.
I also ran the same guard on my 2013 Ninja 1000 and rode for 3 seasons without issue.

I will take a closer look at the fan.

Cheers,

Rob
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aboyandhisversys View Post
check your thermostat. if it's not opening or closing properly you can get similar issues.

When is the last time you changed/cleaned your coolant?

Check your reservoir bottle for junk in the bottom. it may be plugging your radiator system.

Check hoses to see if one of them is collapsing under pressure (unlikely, but you never know..)
Thanks.
The bike is a 2017 with just over 3500 miles on it.
Dealer checked the coolant levels and specific gravity and all were fine.

I may need to check the thermostat - but I need to empty the cooling system to remove it (according to the shop manual)...I think I will focus on the fan first.

Does anyone know if Kawabunga got his issue resolved?

Rob
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twowheels View Post
Start your bike and let it idle until fan starts at operating temp or above and see if fan comes on which it should if temp rises past center. Make sure fan spins freely first. Also check coolant level is OK. Next remove thermostat and check in hot water of correct temp to see if it works.
Thanks.
The fan does come on once the bike hits one bar from the top which is where the Kawi tech thought it should.
The fan comes on at 100C or 216F - I haven't used a thermal gun to confirm that this is what the temp is when the gauge is at this level.
This is the same symptom that Kawabunga was experiencing - hence why I'm curious to see if his issue got resolved or not.
Would just save me time guessing.

I am going to make sure the fan spins freely.
Coolant level is good.

Appreciate all the thoughts/feedback folks!

Rob
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 05:17 PM
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Kitchener Ont

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Lambke View Post
Kawasaki Brothers & Sisters

I do not ride a Versys (but maybe I should? :-)
I do however ride a 2017 Ninja 1000 (Z1000SX) that I am having cooling issues with.
I found a thread on this forum (Engine running too hot too quickly) by a member (Kawabunga) who is having a very similar issue with his Versys 300 (no one on the Ninja forum is seeing this issue).
I'd really like to get in touch with him and contribute to his thread, but I need to post in here first (totally understand - we all need to fight the bots and spammers!).

So - my name is Rob and I live in Cambridge, Ontario and I am a Kawa-holic.
My riding season has been pretty frustrating so far, so I'm hoping Kawabunga and I can help each other.

Hope all of you are enjoying the riding season so far.

Cheers,

Rob
I sent a PM and copied his original posts from member introduction, supposedly the forum is back to normal this afternoon as to permissions/ spammers / posts going everywhere but new members

I have all the test equipment and the experience to easily resolve this. Even though I own a 650, the cooling is identical. If you need proof, check out http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ight=thermobob and start at post 52 , I have had my system apart at least 8 times. Leaving it alone for 2018.

Last edited by onewizard; 06-11-2018 at 08:22 PM.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 08:03 PM
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Fan Cycling / Sort of Wrong Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Lambke View Post
Thanks.
The fan does come on once the bike hits one bar from the top which is where the Kawi tech thought it should.
The fan comes on at 100C or 216F - I haven't used a thermal gun to confirm that this is what the temp is when the gauge is at this level.
This is the same symptom that Kawabunga was experiencing - hence why I'm curious to see if his issue got resolved or not.
Would just save me time guessing.

I am going to make sure the fan spins freely.
Coolant level is good.

Appreciate all the thoughts/feedback folks!

Rob
This really belongs in the V1000 forum, once resolved I will copy the appropriate posts to a new V1000 thread and How To Forum. First the design of the cooling system isn't very well suited to our climate. Normally I ride right down to 0C provided the temperature was never below 0C in the previous 24 hours, preferable is 6C or better, just saying. I have a Thermo-Bob #4 designed for snow bikes, my bypass line has a T in it with a capillary temperature gauge, basically it reads engine temperature even though the T Bob is on the discharge side of the motor, the path back to the water pump is shorter through the bypass than the rad, so always some flow.So it is not clear if your over-temp light came on as it is designed to come on at 115'C or 239'F. The fan comes on at 214'F and cuts out at 210'F. Just keep in mind that below 60 KM/HR very little cooling, according to Thermo-Bob the speed is 80KM/HR when cooling starts to take over from the fan.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/1559329-post8.html


http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/1559329-post8.html

Last edited by onewizard; 06-11-2018 at 08:09 PM.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-21-2018, 10:55 AM
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flush and refill cooling system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawabunga View Post
There is no switch for the fan. I only know the location of the fuse, and don't know where the aluminum t-stat is according to your advice, I'd have to do some homework on that. However, I do have a thermometer gun and will take the temperature when the fan clicks on and off. Its hard for me to tell if the fan is running or not because it seems fairly quiet at least, to me...

I had to lightly touch the belt with the tip of an allen wrench to see if it was moving since it runs so fast and smoothly, it was hard to tell if it was indeed running, like I said, for me the fan runs quietly, compared to say.... my car.

Other people don't seem to have a problem telling when their fan clicks on so I guess it's just me...

I'll test out the temps in relation to the fan the minute I got free time. Right now it isn't hyper critical since it's not hot yet and I'm not taking any crazy trips at the moment, but I do want to get this issue resolved because I hate seeing the bars hit 6 out of 6 and then having the fan kick it down to 5/6 bars. I almost never see 4 bars unless on the freeway going 45mph or above, that or I'm riding around the neighborhood at night with no traffic lights, just stops signs.
Hi,
The day I picked up my Versys-X 250 from the dealership I also noticed that the coolant temperature raised some how quickly! this was a bit annoying because 5 bars out of 6 seemed abnormal especially compared to my previous bike. But I have experienced something. it happens that the radiator and cooling system is not filled correctly by dealers. I bought my first bike from the same dealer and the bike ran really hot! I found out the coolant in radiator was close to nothing! still, don't judge the level of coolant only based on what you see on the reservoir tank. if there is air in the system, there won't be enough vacuum in the radiator to suck water in from the reservoir tank.
So this is what I did with my versys with only 12km on it. I flushed the cooling system completely. according to manual there must be around 1500cc of coolant liquid in the system, when I drained it, it was around 800cc and it was filled with Blue coolant. I bought organic green ethylene glycol anti-freeze and added to it radiator water 50-50 . I then refilled the system, made sure it is filled with no air trapped in the system, this time it took around 1200cc of coolant liquid and then ran the bike in idle. it took around 10minutes of running idle (the manual says don't idle for more than 4 mins) for the temperature to rise again and when it went up to 5 bars, temp dropped to 4 bars again. problem solved.
whole process shouldn't take more than an hour.
I hope this helps.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-21-2018, 11:35 AM
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Have the dealer check it out, you may have a bad thermostat or blocked radiator or a bad fan relay, or a bad fan.
Or you may have normal cooling system performance.

I'll be willing to bet many, many $$$$ that Kawasaki isn't knowingly going to put a bad design out there, the warranty claims would kill the bike. Not only that but if anybody knows the performance envelope it would be Kawasaki. They've been making liquid cooled high perf motorcycles for, oh, 30 or so years.

There are many, many Versys in 3x sizes out there on the planet. If the design was bad, the motorcycle press would be full of articles and warnings. There currently are no such warnings.

I've noticed on all my Kaws (3x liquid cooled) that they tend to run up the temp very quickly. If you think about it, Kawasaki has to balance weight and performance versus engine protection. They chose a point that protects the bike, and doesn't result in warranty claims (i.e. product costs.)

My ZX14 zooms up in temp in stopped traffic, and tends to roast my legs. It's normal. My Versys is a bit less toasty, but still zooms up the scale when stopped. I ignore it.

YMMV of course, and this is only my opinion (before I get incoming hate...)

Last edited by aboyandhisversys; 06-21-2018 at 01:14 PM.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-21-2018, 02:05 PM
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Update 2017 Z1000SX

Just to fill in what I found, I did some extensive testing, what I found was the VDC was around 13.3 to 13.6 VDC at the battery at idle, this is after a 20 minute ride to my place. I hooked up temperature probes to both inlet and outlet of rad, one a fluke clamp on K temp sensore and the other a different make K temp sensor . FYI for those backyard mechanics that think InfraRed is the be all and end all to testing, you couldn't be more wrong. Whenever possible a J or K sensor along with a proper meter is far superior, I will leave it at that as I also worked with infrared thermography checking switch gear and bus duct and main power distribution, like anything there is a right tool specific to the process you are doing.
So we found the fan came on at 214'F but kept running even when the outgoing temperature was 200'F. Revving the motor above 1125 idle RPM ended in a drop from 13.6 to 13.3 VDC. The owner contacted the dealer mechanic which claimed the voltage would rise to 14.3 to 14.7 VDC above 3500 RPM.
Regulator is a SH868AA also used on a Vulcan.
Below is some of the things I researched and sent.

What can be done is disconnect the regulator if it is the one in the photo, I can access the 3 phase input there and measure AC volts, I have done this so many times on so many bikes, I have a bench mark of VAC expected @ 2000 RPM, I think on your bike it may be a identical stator to the versys, klr and 650 Ninja, as that manual listed 24 amp at 14 V.
So since the idle is 400 RPM lower, I would use 1600 instead of 2000 RPM. Some key tests , also I could bring my OEM Versys regulator along, it should be a identical pin configuration, could simply plug it in ( I would consider that provided all 3 phases checked within 26 to 28 VAC and within 0.2 VAC between phases). In fact if I come I would bring two meters, check both the DC current and the DC voltage . I could also bring my polaris regulator and wiring harness.
Let me know if you are interested, I may need to make a harness extension for the OEM regulator to bring with me ( I need about 3 inches of the positive output or negative output to measure current, don't want to cut the heat shrink for access), as my 2015 Versys the wiring is about 10% short everywhere, I actually spliced in a 8 inch extension for my right front signal light / headlight as I needed two needle nose pliers to put the plug together or take it apart, it was so tight it was rubbing on the front brace for the headlight fairing.

************************************************** ************************************************** ******************************************
Yes, that is a good number, also used on the Vulcan. I forgot to mention about the temperature sensor, it is directly related to your volts DC. As you know most devices out now use a USB port for charging, this is a 5 VDC regulated power source, I have one on the Versys for charging my phone, and can also use it for the GPS, my point is that the ECU has it's own regulated source within, this is used for feedback, unfortunately the way the temperature sensor works is, the resistance drops on temperature rise. To find this info you need to be part detective,in section 3 it states that at 20'C the output voltage should be 2.80 to 2.97 VDC , going to section 16-104 they have :
-20'C =18,800 ohms*****0'C=6540 ohms*****40'C=1136 ohms*****100'C=155.3 ohms . FYI this sensor is non linear and no value of resistance is given for 20'C.
Where I am going with this is I feel that replacing the sensor will have no effect, that the problem is your voltage regulator. A very simple test would be for me to follow through with my original proposal, hook my regulator up, check the voltage, if it is 14.3 to 14.7

************************************************** ************************************************** *********************************************
My feeling is both the sensor and the regulator. How I have switched from the ECU to the sensor is the ECU is a fixed setting, it doesn’t change , the sensor on the other hand could be part of the cause, several Versys 650 owners have had problems, one was going to ground, one was a corroded connection. I looked at the manual, one common problem, and I have no idea where you store your bike, but some of the ECU ground connections go directly to the frame, on my 2015 I found several poor ground connections, FYI these are not tied in in any way with the negative wiring, if you read the manual section 3-60 and 3-61, mentions checking ECU ground. The sensor drops in resistance on temperature rise, so a poor connection would show a high resistance lower temperature, so this can become a PITA finding, although that is what I have done for over 40 years

There are additional messages sent however I feel this summarizes what I have found, no further contact since Monday, and as you know, very few mechanics have the electrical knowledge to go this far, I did a few quick tests while at my house, turning on high beam and increasing idle ( 2000 RPM brief blip) had no effect , voltage dropped from 13.6 to 13.3 VDC, my take is it is a shunt regulator that is defective, as there are numerous referrals in the manual about 14.3 to 14.7 VDC range.
Last for those 650 owners reading this thread, the magic 1500 to 1550 idle RPM makes a huge difference in stop and go traffic, as a difference of 13.6 VDC ( under 1500 RPM) as opposed to 14.2 VDC ( @ or above 1500 RPM)@ 14.2 VDC the fan speed is about 40% faster with the higher voltage, which means the cycle time to cool down is faster.

I hope this explains the original post, and possibly helps others on this forum.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-21-2018, 02:12 PM
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Z1000SX 2017 Engine Running Hot

Like promised this information is now in the V1000 forum

Last edited by onewizard; 06-21-2018 at 02:14 PM.
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