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Battery Replacement - Which brand?

59K views 60 replies 33 participants last post by  silviefox 
#1 ·
Hey everyone,

I need to replace my battery. Suffice it to say, it was accidentally fully drained twice in the past year and now it simply will not remain charged. I was curious, does anyone have advice on which brand or should I just rebuy the original Yuasa battery? I can save as much as 50% by going with another off brand, but I'm worried about the quality compared to yuasa. Thanks for any advice!
 
#36 ·
Get one of the new lithium ion batteries. You can completely discharge and recharge them with no harm and no winter charging is required as they will hold a charge for a year with no maintenance. They also weight about half that of a lead acid battery. (That should be good for about another second in the quarter mile and about 20 MPH on top end.)
 
#38 · (Edited)
Original AGM 180 CCA battery is Yuasa (made in China) YTX12-BS

Interstate (Yuasa) CYTX12-BS, FAYTX12
Motocross (Yuasa) YTX12-BS http://www.tristatebattery.com/produ...roducts_id=731
Batteries Plus (USA) XTAX12-BS, X2-12 http://www.batteriesplus.com/product...to-2010/1.aspx
Big Crank (USA) ETX12 http://www.batterymart.com/p-Big-Cra...2-Battery.html
Deka- East Penn International (USA/China) ETX112, YTX12-BS http://www.dekacatalog.com/#
Energizer (Johnson Controls, USA) 02078210 (Walmart)
EverStart MAXX (Johnson Controls, USA) ES12BS (Walmart)
Power Max (China) GTX12-BS http://www.apexbattery.com/kawasaki-...batteries.html
Scorpion (China) YTX12BS http://www.batterystuff.com/batterie...sYTX12-BS.html
WestCo (Vietnam) 12V12-B http://www.westcobattery.com/battery...&vid=1&mid=761
Champion 12BS
Delco GTX12-BS
NAPA 740-1866
Powersonic PTX-12BS
PowerStar PM12-BS
Sears 44016
Yacht CTX12-BS

BikeMaster (Taiwan) (Gel) MG12-BS (230 CCA) http://www.bikemaster.com/bmstrv2.ns...F?opendocument
http://www.powersportsuperstore.com/...Search=MG12-BS
Yucell (China) (Gel) YG12-BS (140 CCA) http://www.yucell.com/gel.html

Shorai (Japan/China) (Lithium Ion) LFX12A1-BS12 (155 CCA), LFX14A1-BS12 (210 CCA), LFX18A1-BS12 (270 CCA), LFX09A2-BS12 (135 CCA).
http://www.shoraipower.com/s-43180-KLE650-Versys.aspx
https://www.motomummy.com/store/prod...cat=255&page=1


Thanks invader, you come through as always. That TPS adjustment last year took care of any popping I had.
 
#42 ·
#44 ·
If you go with the Shorai can use use a typical charger or will this be necessary.

http://www.shoraipower.com/p-184-sho-bms01.aspx
Q. Can I use Lead-Acid battery chargers or charger/tenders with Shorai's Li-Ion battery?

A. Yes. HOWEVER, you may NOT use a charger/tender if it has an automatic "desulfation mode", which cannot be turned off. We have confirmed with Deltran, makers of the "Battery Tender" brand, that their products do NOT have a desulfation mode, and are therefore OK for use with Shorai LFX, for example. But the best possible charger/tender for Shorai LFX is the SHO-BMS01, which will be released on about March 15th 2011, we expect. It uses the 5-pin BMS port in the LFX batteries, in order to monitor, diagnose, and balance the individual cells during charge. And it also has an optimized storage mode that will give the longest possible service life to your LFX.

If you are storing your vehicle and want to check the remaining capacity, or you're a racer with a constant-loss system, you'll want to know how resting voltage (i.e. with no load or load under 200mA) maps to remaining capacity. LFX batteries should be maintained such that 20% capacity remains at minimum, as best practice. Use a good-quality voltmeter to check remaining capacity, and consider recharge whenever the battery capacity falls to about 50% remaining. Of course, if you get the Shorai dedicated BMS01 charger, you can just hit the "Store Mode" button and leave it to do the work for you.

* Do not allow resting voltage to fall below 12.86 volts!.

Q. Should I use a battery tender with a Li-Ion battery?

A. The short answer is "only if you really need to". Most powersports enthusiasts have gotten used to hooking up a tender to their lead-acid batteries, all the time. Shorai LFX have much slower self-discharge than the best lead acid do (1/6 to 1/7, on average), they do not sulfate as capacity drops, and they are the ultimate "deep cycle" battery, which means that they can still crank your vehicle even if the remaining capacity is quite low. Therefore most riders will not need to use a tender at all. Even a charger or tender uses energy you have to pay for, and there is always the possibility that a charger or tender can fail in some way, so if not really needed the best practice is to not use one.
A fully charged LFX can sit for a year or more and still retain adequate starting capacity, without damaging the battery. As such, any vehicle which has no current flowing when the key is OFF should never need a tender. At most it should be charged every 6 to 12 months, depending on the average storage temperature (cool storage is much better for any battery). Many older vehicles and most dirtbike/atv fall into this category.
Newer vehicles may have a significant draw even when the key is OFF, to maintain clocks and computers, etc. In this case we expect that a few hours of riding per month will be all that is needed to avoid tending. If you know that you will go a number of weeks or months without riding, you can either attach a tender, or disconnect the negative cable from the battery. In any case, during storage you may use the voltage chart above and an accurate voltmeter, and consider recharging when the battery is around the 50% capacity remaining mark, or above.

http://www.shoraipower.com/t-faq.aspx

Li-Ion Battery Cell life-
Charging forms deposits inside the electrolyte that inhibit ion transport. Over time, the cell's capacity diminishes. The increase in internal resistance reduces the cell's ability to deliver current. This problem is more pronounced in high-current applications. The decrease means that older batteries do not charge as much as new ones (charging time required decreases proportionally).
High charge levels and elevated temperatures (whether from charging or ambient air) hasten capacity loss. Charging heat is caused by the carbon anode (typically replaced with lithium titanate which drastically reduces damage from charging, including expansion and other factors).
A Standard (Cobalt) Li-Ion cell that is full most of the time at 25 °C (77 °F) irreversibly loses approximately 20% capacity per year. Poor ventilation may increase temperatures, further shortening battery life. Loss rates vary by temperature: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%–60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, and 15%, respectively.In contrast, the calendar life of LiFePO4 cells is not affected by being kept at a high state of charge.

Internal resistance-
The internal resistance of standard (Cobalt) lithium-ion batteries is high compared to both other rechargeable chemistries such as nickel-metal hydride and nickel-cadmium, and LiFePO4 and lithium-polymer cells. Internal resistance increases with both cycling and age. Rising internal resistance causes the voltage at the terminals to drop under load, which reduces the maximum current draw. Eventually increasing resistance means that the battery can no longer operate for an adequate period.
To power larger devices, such as electric cars, connecting many small batteries in a parallel circuit is more effective and efficient than connecting a single large battery.

Safety requirements-
If overheated or overcharged Li-ion batteries may suffer thermal runaway and cell rupture. In extreme cases this can lead to combustion. Deep discharge may short-circuit the cell, in which case recharging would be unsafe. To reduce these risks, Lithium-ion battery packs contain fail-safe circuity that shuts down the battery when its voltage is outside the safe range of 3–4.2 V per cell. When stored for long periods the small current draw of the protection circuitry itself may drain the battery below its shut down voltage; normal chargers are then ineffective. Many types of lithium-ion cell cannot be charged safely below 0°C.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
 
#45 · (Edited)
Thanks Invader. :thumb::thumb: I'll be going with the gel battery you posted. like the weight savings of the lithium but i already have a battery charger connection on the bike and the gel seems to be the way to go on performance price wise.
 
#46 ·
Timely review from WbW:

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-battery/li-ion-motorcycle-battery/shorai-vs-ballistic-li-ion-motorcycle-battery.htm


So when you get right down to it, what are the benefits of going to a Li-Ion battery? Probably the most significant and certainly the most tangible benefit is the weight savings. But really -- is a few pounds going to make that much of a difference in a street bike? Let's take a look and see if there's anything else that justifies the 300% to 400% cost increase of a Li-Ion motorcycle battery.
 
#47 ·
#48 ·
Odd Battery Failure

In all my years I have never seen a battery do this. Before you remove all your electrics and starter trying to troubleshoot a failure, make sure it's not just the battery gone defunct. Ask me how I know....:cool:

Our Yamaha WR250 has about 20 hours on it, a left over 2008 model I bought new a year ago. The starter quit a couple of weeks ago. The ignition switch lights up, the relays click, but no starter, nada. I was cursing Yamaha, brand new bike with a dead starter. :mad:

Yesterday I had some free time so thought I would see if I could figure out what was wrong with it. Battery measured full charge, 12.9 to 13.0 volts. The manual shows how to troubleshoot the relays by removing them, applying power, and measure conductivity. Tested the wiring to the starter, seems fine, but the relay was not connecting power to the starter, per manual test - says replace. Okay, must be a failed starter relay.

Jumpered the battery direct to the starter motor lead - nada, nothing. Hmmm...bad starter too? Drain coolant, remove tank, remove hoses and exhaust so I can get at the starter, remove starter, disassemble, check out commutator, brushes. Crap, thing looks like new inside (it should!). How could both the starter and relay fail at the same time????? Got online to locate a starter, price them out....$200 freakin dollars!!!! Oh crap. No way, gotta figure out what's wrong with this starter. Disassemble again, close inspection of everything. Hmmm...nothing wrong with it. Okay, just for giggles, hook a lead to it and try it out on the car battery....ZING away it goes, spins like a top. Daham, just saved myself $200 and another $40 for a relay. But the whole bike is now pieces strewn across the garage floor. :mad:

Took the battery out, put a light bulb on it, glows warm with about the light a candle would put out. Tried it out on the car battery and it glows like the sun.

In all my years I have NEVER seen a battery that measures full charge with a multi-meter but has no power.

Gonna get one of those Tru-Gel batteries, 2 of 'em, one for each dirtbike. Not going thru this crap again. :D

Beware the battery... :dgi:
 
#49 ·
Batteries (car, bike or flashlight...) can only be accurately tested with an adequate load on them, either with an actual “battery tester” (which is internally `loaded’) or with a voltmeter in conjunction with an appropriate separate load, e.g., if you had hit the starter button your voltmeter probably would have dropped to 0v.
.
 
#50 ·
Uh, yeah, evidently. ;)

I think I cooked this one by running too much charging amps. I have a 2/6 and it got started on 6 one time, oops. Dead'r than a doornail.

I just have never seen a dead battery show full charge with a meter. Must have fried the plates together.

Got one of those AGM's from wallyfart for $30. Did not realize they were AGM's. Actually not a bad looking battery, the way it's setup. For a dirtbike with a kickstart backup it should be fine if it goes out a few years. I dunno if I would put one in the versys. Will see how this one goes.

Gotta get me a tender for sure. The weather has been so bad this year the bikes haven't been out for 6 months.
 
#51 ·
Best replacement battery for hot climates?

I've read through this thread with great interest, but haven't really seen an answer to this potential question: if you live in a hot climate (NM, AZ, TX, all the states along the southern edge of the US, basically), what would be a better replacement battery: Gel, AGM, or the LiFePO battery?

All of them probably wouldn't last as long here in the desert SW as they would in cooler places, but is there a good reason for or against any of these types?
 
#52 ·
I've read through this thread with great interest, but haven't really seen an answer to this potential question: if you live in a hot climate (NM, AZ, TX, all the states along the southern edge of the US, basically), what would be a better replacement battery: Gel, AGM, or the LiFePO battery?

All of them probably wouldn't last as long here in the desert SW as they would in cooler places, but is there a good reason for or against any of these types?
I'm for inexpensive AGM batteries. The ones from walfart are Johnson Controls AGM and run about $40.

While lipo's are nice - light weight, good power, etc., they can be dangerous, fussy to maintain, and we won't even go into cost.

From wind-sun on battery types, this on the AGM:

AGM, or Absorbed Glass Mat Batteries
A newer type of sealed battery uses "Absorbed Glass Mats", or AGM between the plates. This is a very fine fiber Boron-Silicate glass mat. These type of batteries have all the advantages of gelled, but can take much more abuse. We sell the Concorde (and Lifeline, made by Concorde) AGM batteries. These are also called "starved electrolyte", as the mat is about 95% saturated rather than fully soaked. That also means that they will not leak acid even if broken.

AGM batteries have several advantages over both gelled and flooded, at about the same cost as gelled:
Since all the electrolyte (acid) is contained in the glass mats, they cannot spill, even if broken. This also means that since they are non-hazardous, the shipping costs are lower. In addition, since there is no liquid to freeze and expand, they are practically immune from freezing damage.

Nearly all AGM batteries are "recombinant" - what that means is that the Oxygen and Hydrogen recombine INSIDE the battery. These use gas phase transfer of oxygen to the negative plates to recombine them back into water while charging and prevent the loss of water through electrolysis. The recombining is typically 99+% efficient, so almost no water is lost.

The charging voltages are the same as for any standard battery - no need for any special adjustments or problems with incompatible chargers or charge controls. And, since the internal resistance is extremely low, there is almost no heating of the battery even under heavy charge and discharge currents. The Concorde (and most AGM) batteries have no charge or discharge current limits.

AGM's have a very low self-discharge - from 1% to 3% per month is usual. This means that they can sit in storage for much longer periods without charging than standard batteries. The Concorde batteries can be almost fully recharged (95% or better) even after 30 days of being totally discharged.

AGM's do not have any liquid to spill, and even under severe overcharge conditions hydrogen emission is far below the 4% max specified for aircraft and enclosed spaces. The plates in AGM's are tightly packed and rigidly mounted, and will withstand shock and vibration better than any standard battery.​
 
#53 ·
I have to recommend against the Big Crank battery. I got one for my 09 and the posts are twice as wide as stock so I had to modify my battery leads and the rubber caps that cover the posts are not big enough so I had to make a foam cover to keep the battery leads safe. I do not consider this battery compatible as a 5 minute install and a ride was replaced by an hour of frustration and no ride until the weekend. The physical size was right and it was US made but I wished I bought something else. The battery was also not delivered fully charged as advertised, only had 12.5 volts.
 
#54 ·
Just my 2 cents: When I worked in the bike businesses, the most popular seller was Shorai. They produce a really nice battery and I never heard a bad thing about them but the warranty is a nice reassurance for the consumer. Another big seller was the Ballistic Performance batteries. Most of the people who purchased them were interested in shaving as much weight as possible. Having said all this, I am still using the stock battery and it has never let me down, even when it is below freezing. I do not have a tender on it. I have been considering a solar charger which I have used in the past on cars with the desired effect but haven't got around to it yet.
 
#56 ·
I had a near dead battery a few days ago and I already had a 9-bs (agm)diehard series I had never even put the acid in, so I used it. the dimensions are the same except the height is about 1 " shorter so I put a couple of foam shims under it. it is much lighter, though I don't care about that so much. it is working fine. turns out I had unknowingly bumped the 6v/12v switch on the little float charger I keep the bike plugged up to is the reason I had a problem. didn't know it until after I changed batteries of course. I recharged the yuasa and it came back to life o.k. cant see any reason to put it back in though. I don't know if this is the original battery or not. 6 years seems like a long time for those batteries to hold up. (bike is an 08 model)
 
#57 ·
This original post on this topic is a few years old, but that won't stop me from giving my 2 cents. I used to work a parts counter at a bike shop, and no doubt the Yuasa batteries had a much lower fail rate than some of the off-brand, or distributor brands. When a battery drains down, it usually builds up sulfates. If you take it to your local dealer, he may be able to de-sulfate it for you. Or he may rather sell you a new battery. De-sulfation isn't a cure-all, but it may get you another season out of it.
 
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