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Burnt Stator / Versys 650 / Stator Testing/ Stator Failure Series Regulator

129K views 601 replies 90 participants last post by  Gerinemo 
#1 ·
I checked the manual before posting, not very informative if you don't know anything about it. The most accurate test is what you have already done, and it sounds like you have shorted turns, however it wouldn't hurt to try this again. What you need to realize is this is a 3 phase power source, the white wires need to be identified as white A, white B and white C. , make a drawing of the quick connector and designate on the drawing, and mark the readings down in accordance to your drawing.Measure A to B , B to C and C to A. You should have three readings all very close, like within a couple volts, and as a side note, idle RPM is fine since this is the AC output open circuit voltage, manual says something like 42 volts at 4000 rpm. If one reading is considerably lower then the stator is screwed, you can test this with a ohm meter with the motor off, check the same three and mark down the ohm readings, IMO this is a very inaccurate test. The manual says 0.18 to 0.27 ohms, most test leads of meters are greater than this, only advantage would be to prove that it is open.
:cheers:
 
#554 ·
Hi,

Sorry for the delay, I’ve just finished nights.
Tested the stator and got the following results:


Has anyone used bikebandit.com? They have a new Polaris 4012941 and triumph lead for $200, delivered to the UK for $300. Sound reasonable?

Cheers

Vaiders
The price is good as to a 4012941, However the 4016868 is half that almost and has a higher current rating , unfortunately it is much more difficult to install. If interested I can find a legit used one off Ebay, so far I have purchased around 5 used ones all were 100% OK. I will send a PM to you.
 
#555 ·
Copy To How To

Hi,

Sorry for the delay, I’ve just finished nights.
Tested the stator and got the following results:

3phases all balanced at 0.18 ohms and all IR >1000Ms

Engine warmed up and then tested at:

1350 RPM - ~25v (ph to ph), ~13.5v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

2000 RPM - ~34v (ph to ph), ~18.5v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

3000 RPM - ~48.5v (ph to ph), ~27.5v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

4000 RPM - ~68v (ph to ph), ~38v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

Oddly, when the stator lead was disconnected the headlight came back on....

Just tested the rectifier as per the manual and no light coming on during final test....

New R/R then!?!

Has anyone used bikebandit.com? They have a new Polaris 4012941 and triumph lead for $200, delivered to the UK for $300. Sound reasonable?

Cheers

Vaiders
FYI you have just provided some base values at various RPM , open circuit , I should add the reference to ground is just that, all the phase voltages are common with other bikes I have tested , the 2000 RPM is within 1 volt, what my 2000 RPM may be over or under your 2000 RPM. Excellent post.
 
#556 ·
Hi,

Sorry for the delay, I’ve just finished nights.
Tested the stator and got the following results:


Oddly, when the stator lead was disconnected the headlight came back on....

Just tested the rectifier as per the manual and no light coming on during final test....

New R/R then!?!


Cheers

Vaiders

OK I am not clear if you used the service manual regulator test , or if you plugged everything back in and ran the bike?? So a quick test to prove the headlight relay works properly , with 3 phase plug disconnected , take a wire from the positive post of the battery or you can use the horn wire ( one side goes to the horn button which is ground and the other is positive when keyed on) Take the positive wire, key on but bike not running , the socket end that goes to the regulator , touch one pin at a time, one of those goes to a diode inside the relay box and should bring on the headlight, once on, a quick bump of the starter switch ( 1 second or less) wil kick the headlight off again, you can then try a second time on that pin of the 3 phase socket. The second instance of the headlight coming on while disconnecting the regulator is a flaw in the wiring, on a well charged battery caused by a induced voltage from the release of the start solenoid. ( I describe this about triggering for the Polaris adding a diode at the main fuse /start solenoid ).
 
#558 ·
The price is a good example of overpriced fake China regulator, notice it says replaces.
 
#562 ·
Burnt Stator/ Stator Testing

Had my Versys a month or more and have run into a few instances where, after a decent ride of an hour or more, I stopped to take in a view or whatever. 2 or 3 minutes with the engine off and go to start it..... Click click click... everything goes dead, clock resets. Weird. Bump start, made it home. So, replaced the battery for a start, seems better, but then after a couple of rides the same thing happens. Reading up and found a lot of folks replacing the stator to fix charging issues. Got a replacement from Ricks Motorsports, along with a cover gasket, and tackled it tonight.

Holy engine oil! Probably poured a quart onto my driveway before it slowed to a dribble.

Is this normal??? I only have a side stand, so if that side of the motor is supposed to be wet then it might explain it, but I was certainly not expecting it.

Stator smelled like burned arse, and a couple of the coils look really bad (see pics), so maybe I was onto something. But the oil.....
 

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#565 ·
...Holy engine oil! Probably poured a quart onto my driveway before it slowed to a dribble....Is this normal??? I only have a side stand, so if that side of the motor is supposed to be wet then it might explain it, but I was certainly not expecting it....Stator smelled like burned arse, and a couple of the coils look really bad (see pics), so maybe I was onto something. But the oil.....
IF I remember correctly - I laid my V onto its right side so the oil wouldn't leak out, then replaced the stator. Of course I asked a buddy to help me get it DOWN, then to get it back UP!
 
#563 ·
It's a 2008, 12,500 miles. I did load up the stator connector with dielectric grease before snapping it together so maybe that will help with longevity. The replacement stator doesn't have the same quality feel as the original, but even if I have to replace it every few years it's not the end of the world.
 
#564 ·
Polaris Regulator

It's a 2008, 12,500 miles. I did load up the stator connector with dielectric grease before snapping it together so maybe that will help with longevity. The replacement stator doesn't have the same quality feel as the original, but even if I have to replace it every few years it's not the end of the world.
You want to make a big improvement, install a series regulator. Yes I have a thread on Ricks, you would have been better off getting a china stator and a 4012941 Polaris regulator .And there are several threads about keeping your oil level near the top mark, as it helps to cool the stator.

https://www.kawasakiversys.com/foru...oem-vs-ricks-stator-china-star-connected.html
 
#567 · (Edited)
Versys 650 All years

I'm new to the Versys forum and have a hard time figuring out which model you are discussing (300 / 650/ 1000 cc) ?
Are the stators on a 300 (model of my interest) a problem ?

Thanks
Thanks for pointing that out, this forum started before either the V1000 or X300 ever existed, I edited the Title

As in the title, if you are familiar with electrics and have a manual, find out what the stator output is rated at, also check the manual for testing the regulator, if it is a shunt regulator there will be a test for it, if it is a series regulator, no means of testing except for actual output.
 
#568 ·
Hi everyone, I just got my stator replaced on my Versys, its a 2014 model, here is a pic of the burnt stator but going through the post I have not seen a burnt stator like mine, do you have any ideas? I made an error and replaced mine with a Rick's stator and planing on moving to the polaris/rm stator.
 

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#569 · (Edited)
Hi everyone, I just got my stator replaced on my Versys, its a 2014 model, here is a pic of the burnt stator but going through the post I have not seen a burnt stator like mine, do you have any ideas? I made an error and replaced mine with a Rick's stator and planing on moving to the polaris/rm stator.
Very common, close up photos would help, front and back and near the leads. Common failure is around the Delta connection, older stators had all the cross over connections on the same side as the Delta connections, usually one or more phases would short out, this is due to the constant heating and cooling caused by the shunt regulator when going from below 2000 RPM to above 3500 RPM for short intervals , ( 10 to 15 minutes or less) .

Something you should read;


https://www.kawasakiversys.com/foru...related-those-converted-series-regulator.html
 
#570 · (Edited)
Battery Life / AGM Yuasa

I added this from another thread, as the relevance is a common problem being the Shunt Regulator,


Just doing some testing today on a addition led brake light I plan on installing with my Versys 650 intending to use the Gear Brake module with it.



Comments related
https://www.kawasakiversys.com/foru...ance-v-650/221049-sts-smart-brake-module.html

I was in the car with my Fluke meter at the store, right now a PITA to get there due to numerous road construction, so if the led module didn't meet my expectations I would walk back into the store and return it. I measured 0.100 amp and since voltage is part of the equation for watts I was surprised to see the Toyota charging system at 13.4 VDC at idle and 13.65 VDC above idle.

So there are many battery posts, fortunately today I thought I might enlighten some of the members lurking and glancing at new posts, the key to battery failure is improper charging, vibration, so I copied this ;
Approximately 50% of premature car battery failures is caused by the loss of water for normal recharging charging due to the lack of maintenance, evaporation from high under hood heat, or overcharging.Nov 20, 2018
What is that to do with my LED brake light and Toyota charging system?

One Phrase Series Regulator The Polaris and CompuFire run at 14.2 to 14.3 VDC the OEM Shunt between 14.5 and 15 VDC , so which battery do you think will fail first? the one with a series regulator or the Shunt ******************Yes Shunt is the correct answer. At one time the cost of the Polaris regulator was less than a new Yuasa battery. And now you know why my batteries last between 6 and 7 years, been running series regulators since 2009.
 
#572 ·
Chances are good the stator was a China Y connected , which will work fine provided you install the series regulator. OEM uses two 18 gauge copper wires per line out, the Y connected they cheat and use a single 18 gauge, when converting from delta to star you need to increase the wire gauge to 15 gauge, as the turns per phase decreases.
 
#573 ·
It was a used OEM stator the second time - and a new one the first.

I believe both instances it burnt out due to a combinations of NC summer heat and mountain riding - I was riding 45min: high speed highway to tight windy mountain roads, into a 5-10m/hr dirt road with a low speed hill at the end. Plus I was charging a phone, and with a probably inefficient 5v usb adpter (one of them had burnt out already).

I think all of those factors led to it failing with the shunt regulator on top of it all, even though it was an OEM stator.

Well... I'll get real good at this stator replacement anyhow...

Just gotta figure out the nuances of the various regulator mod options :)
 

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#574 ·
:clap::clap::clap::thumb::thumb::thumb::thanx:
 
#575 ·
It looks like the stator on my 2011 V650 is going. It's already the second one on this bike - first one was replaced under warranty by the previous owner at 18,000 miles. I'm now just north of 40,000 miles. A month ago, I replaced the original regulator with a Polaris 941 series regulator using the Triumph harness with all wires butt-spliced into the factory harness (stator connector still in place). I tested the stator and was seeing right at 24V on all three phases at 2000 rpm, so I believed that it was ok. After the regulator was installed, I measured 14.3V charging at 5000 rpm.

A couple of weeks after the regulator swap, my battery started dying regularly. Did some tests after a jump start and the charging voltage was lower, but figured it might be that the battery was so low. Was leaving town and didn't have a lot of time to trickle charge a battery overnight, plus the battery was the original one from 2011 - wouldn't be a bad thing to get a fresh one, so I did. Came back after 5 days away and it started up fine. After a few days of regular riding, it started dying again. I pulled accessories off and charged up the battery and still had the same issues and eventually the bike got to a point where it couldn't keep itself running, let alone charge the battery.

I'm now seeing 18.5/18.0/15.5 VAC between windings with the stator connector removed from the regulator, which is low, as is the DC charging voltage. I'm not sure my Fluke meter measures low resistance accurate enough but I'm seeing around 1 ohm between windings (higher than spec, if accurate) but also about 1.2 ohm between each winding and ground, which should be open circuit. Was in a hurry to run these tests, but I'm thinking one or more of the stator windings are shorting to the side cover. The bike did go down on its left side back in February.

A new stator from ElectroSport is on its way. Also ordering a new side cover gasket. Any other items I might need, besides a torque wrench with in-lb settings? I think I can just use standard gasket sealant (Permatex) for the mating sufaces, right? EDIT: I ordered ThreeBond TB1211 Silicone Gasket since I think the Kawasaki Bond stuff is just a faster-drying form of this as it's identified as TB1211F but sells for 3x the price of TB1211.

Also, what's the easiest way to lean the bike over to the right to remove the left side cover and keep everything (including excess oil) in place - maybe carefully propping it up against a wall?
 
#576 ·
It looks like the stator on my 2011 V650 is going. It's already the second one on this bike - first one was replaced under warranty by the previous owner at 18,000 miles. I'm now just north of 40,000 miles. A month ago, I replaced the original regulator with a Polaris 941 series regulator using the Triumph harness with all wires butt-spliced into the factory harness (stator connector still in place). I tested the stator and was seeing right at 24V on all three phases at 2000 rpm, so I believed that it was ok. After the regulator was installed, I measured 14.3V charging at 5000 rpm.

A couple of weeks after the regulator swap, my battery started dying regularly. Did some tests after a jump start and the charging voltage was lower, but figured it might be that the battery was so low. Was leaving town and didn't have a lot of time to trickle charge a battery overnight, plus the battery was the original one from 2011 - wouldn't be a bad thing to get a fresh one, so I did. Came back after 5 days away and it started up fine. After a few days of regular riding, it started dying again. I pulled accessories off and charged up the battery and still had the same issues and eventually the bike got to a point where it couldn't keep itself running, let alone charge the battery.

I'm now seeing 18.5/18.0/15.5 VAC between windings with the stator connector removed from the regulator, which is low, as is the DC charging voltage. I'm not sure my Fluke meter measures low resistance accurate enough but I'm seeing around 1 ohm between windings (higher than spec, if accurate) but also about 1.2 ohm between each winding and ground, which should be open circuit. Was in a hurry to run these tests, but I'm thinking one or more of the stator windings are shorting to the side cover. The bike did go down on its left side back in February.

A new stator from ElectroSport is on its way. Also ordering a new side cover gasket. Any other items I might need, besides a torque wrench with in-lb settings? I think I can just use standard gasket sealant (Permatex) for the mating sufaces, right? EDIT: I ordered ThreeBond TB1211 Silicone Gasket since I think the Kawasaki Bond stuff is just a faster-drying form of this as it's identified as TB1211F but sells for 3x the price of TB1211.

Also, what's the easiest way to lean the bike over to the right to remove the left side cover and keep everything (including excess oil) in place - maybe carefully propping it up against a wall?
A bit of advice; you will have difficulty in removing the side cover as the permanent magnet is pulling the stator lamination's inward, have a couple wooden wedges , Popsicle sticks, something to put in place in several locations that you don't get your finger pinched, in helping with 3 stator failures, never ever replaced the gasket, just use a silicone sealant around the rubber with the 3 phase wires. What I am saying is if you use a couple screw drivers and pry without caution chances are really good at damaging the gasket, I still have one hanging in my garage

Before you install the stator , measure the depth / thickness of the OEM stator and the replacement. FYI stators from places like RM Stator are thinner, be aware the mounting holes are blind holes, I found the depth of thread was insufficient with the RM stator, we used a 3/16 ID X 1/8 thick washer on all mounting screws. The mounting bracket for holding the 3 phase wire back is fastened into the aluminum and another member on here stripped that thread, aluminum it is easily done, this single mounting is critical to prevent the wire contacting the rotor. I recommend using brake cleaner on the mounting screw and blind hole thread, then use 242 loctite, when tightening just snug it up, be aware using any lube which is what the 242 is until it cures, is what I explain when using a torque wrench, dry torque and wet torque, wet torque should be roughly 65% that of dry torque, in other words when I say snug, just that, once that loctite cures, the only way out will be using heat first.
Going back in, the same way, use wooden wedges or some other means to protect you fingers, also get the mounting bolts all started, ensuring everything is lined up once the wedges are pulled.
Please take a close up of both sides of the new stator and a close up of the 3 phase connection area. I would also ask that you look closely on the back side of the stator, last time I was involved they were delta wound.
Y Delta 101
A Y connected stator will have less copper, a greater space between copper poles, and somewhere you will see 3 magnet wires joined in between poles. Also on Y connected staor there will be a single 18 gauge wire per phase. Electrically from my perspective if I was to hand wind a stator, it would be Y connected, less turns but a larger wire. Those China stators cheat, to convert to Y like I said, less turns but to be exactly equal to the delta, it should be a 15 gauge wire. Delta wound is designed for high current , Y connected is for higher voltage. So delta phase voltage and line voltage are the same, line current is 1.73 times that of phase current. Y connected the line voltage is 1.73 times that of the phase voltage, the line current and phase current are one and the same. The advantage of a Y connected is we have less turns, so less chance of a turn to turn short, the voltage per turn is less so less chance of voltage breakdown, a shorted turn will not be affected by the other phases. To explain about a shorted turn in a Delta wound stator, with shorted turns,say the third pole of A phase has shorted turns , phase B to C will actually cause current flow within that shorted turn as will C to A. The shorted turn itself will also cause distortion and shorting out of the magnetic field, this will reduce output. It gets even more complicated but that is all for tonight.
 
#577 ·
A bit of advice; you will have difficulty in removing the side cover as the permanent magnet is pulling the stator lamination's inward, have a couple wooden wedges , Popsicle sticks, something to put in place in several locations that you don't get your finger pinched, in helping with 3 stator failures, never ever replaced the gasket, just use a silicone sealant around the rubber with the 3 phase wires. What I am saying is if you use a couple screw drivers and pry without caution chances are really good at damaging the gasket, I still have one hanging in my garage

Before you install the stator , measure the depth / thickness of the OEM stator and the replacement. FYI stators from places like RM Stator are thinner, be aware the mounting holes are blind holes, I found the depth of thread was insufficient with the RM stator, we used a 3/16 ID X 1/8 thick washer on all mounting screws. The mounting bracket for holding the 3 phase wire back is fastened into the aluminum and another member on here stripped that thread, aluminum it is easily done, this single mounting is critical to prevent the wire contacting the rotor. I recommend using brake cleaner on the mounting screw and blind hole thread, then use 242 loctite, when tightening just snug it up, be aware using any lube which is what the 242 is until it cures, is what I explain when using a torque wrench, dry torque and wet torque, wet torque should be roughly 65% that of dry torque, in other words when I say snug, just that, once that loctite cures, the only way out will be using heat first.
Going back in, the same way, use wooden wedges or some other means to protect you fingers, also get the mounting bolts all started, ensuring everything is lined up once the wedges are pulled.
Please take a close up of both sides of the new stator and a close up of the 3 phase connection area. I would also ask that you look closely on the back side of the stator, last time I was involved they were delta wound.
Y Delta 101
A Y connected stator will have less copper, a greater space between copper poles, and somewhere you will see 3 magnet wires joined in between poles. Also on Y connected staor there will be a single 18 gauge wire per phase. Electrically from my perspective if I was to hand wind a stator, it would be Y connected, less turns but a larger wire. Those China stators cheat, to convert to Y like I said, less turns but to be exactly equal to the delta, it should be a 15 gauge wire. Delta wound is designed for high current , Y connected is for higher voltage. So delta phase voltage and line voltage are the same, line current is 1.73 times that of phase current. Y connected the line voltage is 1.73 times that of the phase voltage, the line current and phase current are one and the same. The advantage of a Y connected is we have less turns, so less chance of a turn to turn short, the voltage per turn is less so less chance of voltage breakdown, a shorted turn will not be affected by the other phases. To explain about a shorted turn in a Delta wound stator, with shorted turns,say the third pole of A phase has shorted turns , phase B to C will actually cause current flow within that shorted turn as will C to A. The shorted turn itself will also cause distortion and shorting out of the magnetic field, this will reduce output. It gets even more complicated but that is all for tonight.
Thanks for the suggestions on wedges. I did consider the difficulty in aligning the cover during reassembly and have some m6x80 threaded studs ready to help with sliding the cover back on. As for the gasket, since the stator cover has already been opened up once, and the gasket likely reused, I'll be interested to see how it looks and what they might have put on the mating surfaces. I have a new gasket just in case.

I have Loctite Blue 243, which is an "improved" variation of 242 with more oil resistance. It should still cure even if some oil residue is present, but I plan to clean up the stator coil mounting hardware and threads, anyway. But are you suggesting to torque all the the stator coil bolts to only 65% of what is recommended in the service manual or just the single bolt for the wire holding plate? Since the service manual instructs application of a non-permanent locking agent (which Loctite Blue 242/243 are), I would have thought the provided torque values are wet torque. Stripping threads inside the stator cover sucks, but so does a bolt inside the sealed up housing backing out and ruining another stator and also my flywheel, etc.

I plan on trying to get at this tonight as soon as the new stator arrives. It is delta-wound, but I will take pics and also pics of the old stator. And I really hope this puts my charging issues to rest.
 
#579 ·
This could have gone better. Sure enough my concerns about the previous stator replacement have proven to be somewhat well-founded. When removing the bolt holding the mounting bracket for the wire, some threads from the aluminum cover came with it. Not sure if it was over-torqued or cross-threaded. I plan to try re-tapping it, but it's definitely not clean as-is. This is why I avoid letting anyone else work on my vehicles.

The ElectroSport stator has the same mounting depth as the OEM one, so no washer/spacers needed, but the clip holding the 3-phase lead wires to the stator is in a slightly different position that makes it difficult to get the wiring out to the hole in the cover without some coaxing. The wiring is also a little too long. The result is I'm having to work it in some strange angles to get everything fitted correctly. Maybe not a big deal, but I do wish it were a better fit out of the box. We'll see how it goes.

The gasket is also toast, so I'm glad I ordered a new one. The cover came off very easily, but the paper gasket is flaking away and I can't justify reusing it in this state. Speaking of toast, the stator is quite crispy as well.
 
#580 ·
Yes , this is the latest winding configuration, all the delta jumpers on the back, epoxy encapsulated , just curious what $ with shipping? This stator is one of only a few I recommend , RMstator is only recommended if you have a Polaris regulator installed, as it is a cheap China stator with Y connected stator, the lamination's are less so spacers are required on the mounting bolts and they cheat and use 18 gauge wire instead of 15 gauge, so less copper and less lamination's , yes it will output 330 watts for a short time until it burns up.
The ElectroSport stator was US $165.17 including California sales tax.

My biggest concern is the clip that holds the wire leads to the stator body - it's not as robust as the OEM one and also has no rubber sheath that might help prevent damage to the wire insulation on the nearby windings if there is contact from excessive vibration or maybe if the the bike goes down. But time will tell.
 
#581 ·
Stator, slightly charred

It's burnt on 3 coils.



You can also see the condition of the gasket to some extent in this pic. A lot of it is stuck to the crankcase side, less to the cover, and a lot of little flakes coming off as well. I used a flat head screwdriver to gently remove the larger chunks and then a green Scotchbrite pad to get everything else off on both sides of the mating surface. That process worked very well.



MORE PICS HERE: https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/album.php?albumid=2967


.
 
#583 ·
The Stator burnt out on my 2014 650 last week at 14,500 miles. Having the local repair shop replace the stator and voltage regulator at a cost of 15% of the bike value :-(

It feels like low mileage but maybe commuting is harder recreational? Been riding 35 miles round trip (100 minutes) for the last 8 months. Maybe rush hour traffic summer heat?
 
#584 ·
Shunt Regulator 98% Cause


I am providing a link, I have numerous posts within this forum, every time you replace the stator and leave a shunt regulator in place, expect it to fail again. Does short rides or rides within the city attribute to early failure, YES with conditions, the root cause is the shunt regulator, I included the link below. Under identical riding conditions with the same stator and a Series Regulator, I would expect that stator to last 60,000 miles minimum , provided you keep your oil level on the top mark.


https://www.kawasakiversys.com/foru...067-batteries-charge-rate-loading-stator.html
 
#588 ·
This is how I mounted my Triumph regulator.The wiring was real tight against the centerframe rail when I tried to mount it in the original location.I was trying to find a better way and pulled the wiring over to the right side a viola everything wanted to go in that direction so I made a adapter plate and bolted it along with a rubber isolator to the tab that gets in the way when you try to get the valve cover off.
 
#589 · (Edited)
I see you have the ThermoBob, also figured out how to use BBcode:clap::clap: Time will tell but that might pickup some radiated heat from the engine and also the rad. On the plus side, convection air flow and no crap coming off the rear wheel. Yes I gather you found about 8 inches of slack tied up, near the air box.

It looks like it was meant to be there. And thanks for posting.
 
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