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Burnt Stator / Versys 650 / Stator Testing/ Stator Failure Series Regulator

129K views 601 replies 90 participants last post by  Gerinemo 
#1 ·
I checked the manual before posting, not very informative if you don't know anything about it. The most accurate test is what you have already done, and it sounds like you have shorted turns, however it wouldn't hurt to try this again. What you need to realize is this is a 3 phase power source, the white wires need to be identified as white A, white B and white C. , make a drawing of the quick connector and designate on the drawing, and mark the readings down in accordance to your drawing.Measure A to B , B to C and C to A. You should have three readings all very close, like within a couple volts, and as a side note, idle RPM is fine since this is the AC output open circuit voltage, manual says something like 42 volts at 4000 rpm. If one reading is considerably lower then the stator is screwed, you can test this with a ohm meter with the motor off, check the same three and mark down the ohm readings, IMO this is a very inaccurate test. The manual says 0.18 to 0.27 ohms, most test leads of meters are greater than this, only advantage would be to prove that it is open.
:cheers:
 
#3 ·
Ok, I just took more presise measurements with my Fluke 115 multimeter.

Battery was fully charged using Battery Tender Junior before starting bike. Engine was fully warm at time these measurements were taken. Idle set at 1300rpm.

Resistance measurements taken with engine turned off.

A-B -> Idle=19.7V....4000rpm=54.5V....5000rpm=64.0V....resistance=0.5 ohm

B-C -> Idle=8.8V......4000rpm=18.7V....5000rpm=22.0V....resistance=0.3 ohm

C-A -> Idle=16.4V....4000rpm=49.0V....5000rpm=60.0V....resistance=0.4 ohm

The B-C circuit seems to be the one that is significantly below spec, with the manual calling for "greater than 42V at 4000rpm".

Anyone know where I can find a salvaged stator coil?

I also performed a diode check on the rectifier/regulator using the Fluke 115 diode checking function, and all pathways checked out.
 
#4 ·
I had the same problem in Colombia, checked everything, then finally pulled the stator, it was obviously burned up. I'd pull it, if that is the problem maybe you could find a shop to rewind it .
I hope you get it sorted out.



Gary
This picture is a original equipment stator, if you look closely the outer turns / last turns are near the top of the pole piece.
 
#5 ·
If you go to Rick's and have a look at the stator posted, that is the very best place for that stator, I would never install that unless I was in Alaska and had no other way home. That is a rewound, by hand stator, several poles have the magnet wire cross over and some of the poles show loose turns. The problem is the magnet wire has a coating of .0015 to .003 of a inch, this is a high frequency alternator, so under load that magnet wire will try to vibrate at the same frequency as the motor RPM.It doesn't take long and all you need is one crossover turn to short and it is downhill from there. Not very many places set up to machine wind a stator like this.If you can get it rewound for $69, I would ask that they give it several extra dips of epoxy varnish, this prevents the magnet wire from vibrating, and if possible use a class h magnet wire, and maybe increase it one size larger.
 
#6 ·
And here's a pic of Rick's Motorsport Electrics $140.00 new Versys stator:

This stator has been wound by hand, the only way I would install that is if I encapsulated the magnet wire, or several dips and bakes using a epoxy varnish .
 
#7 ·
[

A-B -> Idle=19.7V....4000rpm=54.5V....5000rpm=64.0V....resistance=0.5 ohm

B-C -> Idle=8.8V......4000rpm=18.7V....5000rpm=22.0V....resistance=0.3 ohm

C-A -> Idle=16.4V....4000rpm=49.0V....5000rpm=60.0V....resistance=0.4 ohm

The B-C circuit seems to be the one that is significantly below spec, with the manual calling for "greater than 42V at 4000rpm".

Yes, you have shorted and possibly grounded turns, that is something you could check to see if it is grounded, using the ohmeter from any wire to ground, motor not running.Another test that would be more accurate would be to use a LCR meter, this puts out a test frequency , 100HZ or 1KHZ, much like your fluke ohmmeter puts out DC. You would see a huge difference in values.Bottom line is you need another stator.
 
#8 ·
#9 ·
The decision as to were to go and what to do is ultimately up to the end user. If Invader has used them reliably , I haven't. I am speaking from what I did for a living some 30 years ago, worked in a rewind shop.The last picture posted by Invader looks a lot better, but I still see cross-over turns, which is typically the first place it breaks down.
As to my statement about Rick's , he should change the picture on his website to the one Invader posted, the one existing on his website sucks, but to someone that doesn't know any better--------It is a picture.:closed:
 
#10 ·
Well, I ordered the $140 unit from Rick's Electric before I read some of the not-so-favorable words on their products. It comes with a one-year warranty, so I'm good for a year, at least. I will probably send the stock unit (pictured) off to be rewound for $70, just to have a spare.

You took some really good pictures. Did you check from phase "B" -"C" to ground? My concern is that the pole piece is chared more to the connection side and more to the top of the laminations. You could have shorted laminations, if that is the case, the stator is junk. If it blew to ground you would need to re-insulate the pole piece and it is possible to just re-wind that pole by hand ( local electric motor shop should be able to help)----there is also a chance that if the laminations are shorted that the rewind will go the same way, this can be tested by a motor shop that has a small armature growler. :huh:
 
#11 ·
Burnt Stator/ Stator Testing

is burned out after 12K miles on the wifes Versys. We would like to know how this can happen with an '08 bike and is there something she can do to prevent this $300.00 disastor from repeting itself at another 12K miles ??
 
#12 ·
Sorry for the dumb question.... what is a stator and what does it do?
Not Dumb at all !!!!!!! Only dumb questions are NOT asked
The stator is part of the generator under the left engine cover. I have done some research, the magnets seem to be a tad delicate, so dropping the bike may contribute to our burned out stator.
Wikipedia has a nice explanation as well. Our mechanic says he can get one for $312.00 But we said let us look first. I have found some at $258 and $277. Now here comes the fun part, they can be rebuilt for as little as $70.00, and I think I found a NEW Stator for $140.00 at
http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/index.php?pmc=MDhLYXdLTEU2NTBWZXJzeXM

I stumbled on a Thread that I found thru Google search, read on
http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7682

Hope this helps a little,
 
#14 ·
1. Best to test the rectifier/regulator.
Bad regulator/rectifier could cause the stator to overcharge and burn up.
Refer to service manual page 520.

2. Do a battery load test to check cells are fine.

:goodluck:
check the regulator first - this might have taken out the windings of the stator?
The Mechanic said he cant check the regulator / rectifier until the stator is working properly. The guys we bring the bike to are really good, and we are paying for quality work as well.

Thanks everybody for the input,
 
#15 ·
http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7682
Best advice is check this previous thread, there are pictures. To explain what happens, and whether to look at the regulator or not worry, largely depends on what the stator looks like. Shorted turn or turns on one pole will cause the stator to burn out, with no damage to the regulator. You know you have a problem when the battery gradually discharges and the bike won't start anymore.The way it works is the total magnetic field of the permanent magnets is shorted out across the shorted turns.Second thing that happens is one of the 3 phase windings goes to ground, this will cause a reduced output and eventually burn up the grounded phase.When two of the three windings burns up, it is best to check the regulator/ rectifier, as it is likely shorted.
Again the service manual is good, also a properly rewound stator is as good as new, again read my post in regards to a poorly wound stator http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7682
:goodluck:
 
#16 ·
I picked up the bike from the mechanic yesterday. Didn't do any work upon the wife request. As I was loading the bike the mechanic admited to being limited at what he could do with this bike. I told him that the rectifier and stator usually are both to go at the same time, and if this isn't corrected the whole electrical system could fry. He was going to replace the stator and then see how things go.
Monday I'll bring the bike to a Kawasaki dealer the wife talked to. He was able to explain to her exactly what's going on and what needs to be done. What really helped is the input from this Forum and his words - they were very similar. The Stator is on back-order nation wide so we are told. A loosely hand wound stator from Ricks will not go into the bike.

On another forum I read about a Mosfet Rectifier/regulator. Bit pricey but I think we'll invest in two of these this winter. It is supposed to help keep the stator a little cooler but not drawing more energy than actually needed ( if i understood it right ).
 
#17 ·
Best to change the R/R at the same time as the stator (did you add any powered farkles?).
The R/R is very exposed on the Versys as well, did you get a hugger to protect it?
You also might want to start looking at lowering the electrical load on her Versys. Good Luck.
Hey Potus2012 !!
The Kawasaki dealer will replace both stator and r/r. I will then later this winter replace the R/R with one from Mofet. We are keeping the old Stator and having it fixed for the you never know's
Guess it's time to look at huggers, never really gave this farkle much thought , but now I will again
The only electrical Farkles are extra LED lights that take no energy, and extra fuse block that has nothing attached yet. Any auxiliary lights will be LED's only, I have the same rule for my bike.
Lowering the load lower than stock can be done, but pricey.
 
#18 ·
stator DIY

first find out why the stator crapped out.....as in take it off and give it a good look see to begin with. If it's got a burnt spot, there's the trouble.

#2- find a good local electric motor rewinding shop and ask if they will re-wrap it. if they want more than $50 labour , do it yourself. I have and it's not hard to do.

#3- The biggie is to keep track of the direction and number of windings while taking it apart(unwrapping). The motor shop will sell you the magnet wire (take in an old piece for them to match) for cheap, they go through pallets of the stuff. And when it's wrapped , have them test it ( they love to prove they could have fixed it better than you) and if it's good, have them do the dip in varnish neccesary when it's done. (a case of beer settled my account for the dip and the wire)

#4- the thing to keep in mind is, they probably don't think it's worth their time to fix it for what you'll pay for a new one. But your time (maybe a couple of hours) is probably worth the $300....I did mine sitting in front of the TV.....lol
 
#19 ·
Stator & R/R

So we got the bike back, jude rode it today finally. $560.00 and it still cut's out on her.

The technician is giving her tips on what we should do and try before we bring it back. I'll be doing an oil change, and she needs to pay attention to when it stalls like that. ahifting and clutch and braking.

The Tech also said that the old R/R was not regulating the flow of electricity to the rest of the Bike. It was overcharging and sending more juice out. So now my thoughts are what if other delicate componants are fried ??
Does this bike have a computer brain like a car?? I know there are relays, I'm just thinking outside of the Box, worse case here...
 
#20 ·
Was the original stator definitely burnt, shorted or faulty in any way? Was the R/R determined to be bad? Does steering position have any effect on the cutting out symptom?
The tech said that the stator was burned out, the R/R was also ruined. Exactly how or what happened to the R/R I do not know, but I guess it was not regulating the power flow. The old Battery had a dead cell.
Before we brought the bike in ( about 3 weeks ago ) I looked in my mirror and noticed the V's light dim, this was on a straight away. So I would have to say the engine cutting out is while riding straight.
Just really frusteratin, 12K miles on an '08 bike and we habe these problems. Worse of all we were lucky to get this Stator, they said that nationwaide was a shortage. KLR's have been having problems..
 
#21 ·
Beside the charging system (stator, R/R, battery), there are relays, fuses, wiring, grounds, and an ECU to control the DFI (fuel injection) and ignition timing... How and when is it 'still cutting out' exactly? Is the battery properly charging and keeping its charge now?
Hey Invader !! Thanks for your input and help. I'm waiting for our Volt Meters, we'll then know about the charging or lack of. For now the bike starts as if the battery is fully charged.
Jude thinks it might have to do with weather change, I don't think so. She's still doing her suggested test this, test that rides.
She is also letting the bike idle a minute longer after initial startup.

After the initial warm up, she'll ride down the road, shift into second, that's when it cuts out.
 
#22 ·
Burnt Stator/ Stator Testing

Just finished replacing the burned out stator in my 09 Versys. The installation was a success and it is once again charging the battery! The service manual has a good guide for the whole process, but here are a few supplementary tips...

1. Make sure you have a torque wrench that does in-lbs

2. Gears might fall out when you take the generator cover off, just be aware. Fried stator anyone? :devil:



3. They don't mention the little triangular metal piece bolted to 3 bolts on the generator cover that provides one of the three mount points for the lower fairing. Not mentioned in the '07 SM.

4. Rotor is magnetized which makes it tough to line up the holes when you replace the cover. Took me 3 times, so be patient. Also make sure the idler gear, torque limiter, and shafts are pushed all the way in before putting the cover on.

Installing the stator in the cover was the hardest part. The rubber gasket that seals the area where the wires exit the generator housing is too close to the stator. I barely managed to get it into the slot.

Looks kinda sloppy, but couldn't think of anything short of cutting some of the rubber off. But that could possibly cause a leak.

I'm fairly new to working on motorcycles, so this was definitely a test of my skills. It was fun, but hope I don't have to repeat it.

Hope you have success too!

:goodluck:
 

Attachments

#23 ·
You can order a replacement unit online for about $100. I see no reason a rebuilt unit would not be as good as new. I would also be concerned or at least check the rectifier and voltage regulator. The manual should tell you how. It may be one or the other or sometimes both if one caused the other to fail. It should never fail normally unless it is a manufacturing defect as there are no moving parts.

https://www.rmstator.com/en/motorcycles/kawasaki/kle_650_versys/stator.htm
http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/2008-2009-Kawasaki-KLE650-KLE-650-Versys-Stator
http://www.electrosport.com/street-...r=asc&order=position&part_type=21&price=10,10
 
#24 ·
I did all the tests on both the R/R and the stator per the manual, stator needs to be replaced (at 4K rpm it needs to be sending about 42 V AC, it was only sending 24) and the R/R gave anomalous readings (open loop (0.L) in one direction and 1.34 M Ohms in the other), and since it generally is what causes the stator to fail, I am replacing it alongside the stator. I ordered an new OEM R/R, and looking at buying a rebuilt stator. :usa:
The information for checking the stator is incorrect, mark the three wires coming from the stator, say 1,2,3. At idle check the VAC of 1 to 2, then 2 to 3, and last 3 to 1. the voltages should all be within 1 VAC. If you get something like 1 to 2 @ 24 VAC and 2 to 3 @ 32 VAC and 3 to 1 @ 16 VAC, then the stator needs replacing, and the imballance is a indication of shorted turns. One last test with the motor off, check with a ohm meter from any of the 3 phase wires to ground, should be open circuit or infinity, anything else and you need to replace the stator.
 
#25 ·
The information for checking the stator is incorrect, mark the three wires coming from the stator, say 1,2,3. At idle check the VAC of 1 to 2, then 2 to 3, and last 3 to 1. the voltages should all be within 1 VAC. If you get something like 1 to 2 @ 24 VAC and 2 to 3 @ 32 VAC and 3 to 1 @ 16 VAC, then the stator needs replacing, and the imballance is a indication of shorted turns. One last test with the motor off, check with a ohm meter from any of the 3 phase wires to ground, should be open circuit or infinity, anything else and you need to replace the stator.
Well, if what they have is the manual is incorrect, I nonetheless had three unequal reading from each of the pairing of wires. I pulled the cover yester day and discovered a burnt/blackend post. :(

I have what is called a heads up voltage tri colour led, green is good,don't get distracted trying to read what the voltage is, very simple idiot light that is very accurate. I found that at normal idle, the cooling fan actually discharges the battery.
Where did you get the the "heads up voltage tir colour led"?
 
#26 ·
Well, if what they have is the manual is incorrect, I nonetheless had three unequal reading from each of the pairing of wires. I pulled the cover yester day and discovered a burnt/blackend post. :(



Where did you get the the "heads up voltage tir colour led"?
This is a product of signal - dynamics, several people have various prices, and some have copied the design. I did a quick search, this is were I got it from;
http://www.chrischrome.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=65610
 
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