Chain life discussion

[390beretta]

Well, the original owner of her bike had put about 6000 miles on it....don't know if he lubed the chain or cleaned it for that matter. It now has 12000 miles on it and we've never lubed the chain, just cleaned it. When we need to replace chain/sprockets, I'll try to report back with the mileage when that becomes necessary. She just had the chain inspected at the dealer a couple hundred miles ago and they said it looked good and was in adjustment. Cheers everyone!

[Mursili]

Originally Posted by 390beretta

This shop believes that a modern o-ring chain should never be oiled; cleaned, yes, oiled, never.

I think that this is one way to think of what fasteddiecopeman and watt-man do with their chains. They have shown that they can get great lifetimes from chains that are "lubed" frequently with WD-40. Since so many will point out that WD-40 is not a lubricant then perhaps they can be said to be cleaning their chain.

[Baron650]

Originally Posted by Vin

My 2 cents...

Versys 2011 ridden under any weather (UK). Scottoiler installed from new, set to drip one full reservoir of oil per 400 miles in the winter and half that in the summer.

Chain has been cleaned with WD-40 once.

Subjective assessment after riding 8500 miles:

Front sprocket: 80-90% worn.
Rear sprocket: 40-50% worn.
Chain: 30-40% worn.

So, question for you then: Assuming the front sprocket is 90% worn, doesn't that mean that the chain and sprocket set is 90% worn? 8500 miles doesn't seem that great.
Or would you consider just replacing the individual components as they wear out? Front sprocket now, rear one in another 8k, chain after that. I would think that a 50-70% worn chain would wear the new sprockets pretty fast. Also, it seems strange that the front sprocket is wearing that much faster, usually the rear starts to show some hooking while the front is still pretty good.

[fasteddiecopeman]

Originally Posted by crow

...If there doesn't need to be lubrication inside the links because its "already there" then why do chains wear out prematurely. It has nothing to do with the chain roller on the sprockets. They wear out from the inside out not the other way.

What I BELIEVE most people get 'wrong', is that, you DON'T lube your chain (the lube is already packed inside it), you lube the O-rings so that they DON'T gall to the side-plates which will tear them, letting lube OUT and grunge IN!

Originally Posted by Mursili

I think that this is one way to think of what fasteddiecopeman and watt-man do with their chains. They have shown that they can get great lifetimes from chains that are "lubed" frequently with WD-40. Since so many will point out that WD-40 is not a lubricant then perhaps they can be said to be cleaning their chain.

You GOT it!

[Time]

Originally Posted by fasteddiecopeman

What I BELIEVE most people get 'wrong', is that, you DON'T lube your chain (the lube is already packed inside it), you lube the O-rings so that they DON'T gall to the side-plates which will tear them, letting lube OUT and grunge IN!

All to true. I mean HOW do you get oil inside a sealed chain? And a sloppy mess will just attract dirt that WILL wear the chain and sprockets out post haste. One reason I use chain wax and NOT oil. I keep the drive line clean and adjusted. I do know a sign that things are wearing out is having to frequently adjust the chain.

For all the faults chains have I'd rather have a chain than a belt, break a belt and you're out of luck unless you have a spare with you. And on a mid size bike a shaft sucks too much power and adds more pork than I'd like. A chain is light, sucks very little power and if you do break one they are easy to find, even in a small town on the road.

[crow]

Originally Posted by Mursili

I think that this is one way to think of what fasteddiecopeman and watt-man do with their chains. They have shown that they can get great lifetimes from chains that are "lubed" frequently with WD-40. Since so many will point out that WD-40 is not a lubricant then perhaps they can be said to be cleaning their chain.

Who ever said WD 40 doesn't lubricate? Their website seems to use the word "lubricates"alot in the 2000+ listed uses for it.
Fantastic stuff lubricates, cleans, protects all manner of things and moving parts- chains included.
It could well be that WD-40 is the ultimate chain cleaner/ lubricator all in one can that can be bought at a ratio of 4-1 vs most dedicated waxes or lubricants..
If it only degreased then what stops the links and seals drying out from a lack of lubricant and perishing?

[Mursili]

Originally Posted by crow

Who ever said WD 40 doesn't lubricate?

Let's see...

scaryfast777 said it in 2008.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...read.php?t=796

Mawson said it in 2010.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ead.php?t=8469

twowheels said it in 2012.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...t=20897&page=2

This was from a very quick search on the forum. I am sure that there are others. The cleaning angle may very well be important for chain life.

[BLACK DOG]

Originally Posted by Mursili

Let's see...

scaryfast777 said it in 2008.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...read.php?t=796

Mawson said it in 2010.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ead.php?t=8469

twowheels said it in 2012.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...t=20897&page=2

This was from a very quick search on the forum. I am sure that there are others. The cleaning angle may very well be important for chain life.

My guess would be that the only group more polarized on the virtues & terrors of WD-40 would be the shooting community

[crow]

Originally Posted by Mursili

Let's see...

scaryfast777 said it in 2008.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...read.php?t=796

Mawson said it in 2010.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ead.php?t=8469

twowheels said it in 2012.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...t=20897&page=2

This was from a very quick search on the forum. I am sure that there are others. The cleaning angle may very well be important for chain life.

Try actual researching your not getting any facts to give you any credible argument... if you'd read the beginning post of one of your quotes.. not telling which one, you'd be getting a hint as to what WD40 was originally designed for..
try getting that angle right first.. Facts need to be right before a method can be correctly applied to something as mundane as cleaning a bloody chain mate...

What rubbish!! miss quoting to be right no matter how off track your determined not be.. This is quickly descending into the kind of forum bull**** that has to be finely filtered through to find the fair advice.. Not fair to anyone least of all the people your unfairly involving. Stop putting words in mouths..

[stlee29]

Longest chain lasted about 30K km. Only using DID with scottoiler. Usually change them out about 20K-25K now.
Front sprocket go first than the rear. Happy with 15/44 combo.

[jqueen]

Originally Posted by crow

Try actual researching your not getting any facts to give you any credible argument... if you'd read the beginning post of one of your quotes.. not telling which one, you'd be getting a hint as to what WD40 was originally designed for..
try getting that angle right first.. Facts need to be right before a method can be correctly applied to something as mundane as cleaning a bloody chain mate...

What rubbish!! miss quoting to be right no matter how off track your determined not be.. This is quickly descending into the kind of forum bull**** that has to be finely filtered through to find the fair advice.. Not fair to anyone least of all the people your unfairly involving. Stop putting words in mouths..

Wow. You're making a counterpoint to an argument that wasn't made in the first place. You know that, right?

He said that lots of people will point out that wd40 isn't a lubricant. That is correct. It is a water displacement agent that is used as a lubricant (sand will lubricate in some applications, does that make it a lubricant?(although I don't recommend it for chains)).

You asked who said it doesn't lubricate, he gave examples. You then go off on him for not researching and giving facts to support his argument? Seems you forgot that he just made a side comment that lots of people will say that wd40 isn't a lubricant. He didn't make any argument one way or the other. I don't know what he actually thinks. I don't consider wd40 to be a lubricant, but I use it to lubricate things all the time. I have also used a pipe wrench to hammer a nail, but it was still a pipe wrench.


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[fasteddiecopeman]

Originally Posted by Time

...For all the faults chains have I'd rather have a chain than a belt, break a belt and you're out of luck unless you have a spare with you....

What you didn't mention - break a belt and you HAVE to remove the swingarm to install a new one.

I replaced an O-ring chain on my KLR in a campground north of Whitehorse in '09, in about 45 minutes, with a chain-tool (AND a few "choice" words...) after I caused its failure when I failed to notice it was TOO TIGHT after adjusting it in Watson Lake the night before. That was after 54,000 kms on WD40....

[Mursili]

As jqueen points out, someone asked "Who says that WD-40 is not a lubricant?" and I gave a few examples. I was not commenting on whether or not WD-40 can be used as a lubricant. In fact, I am the last person to say that anything cannot be used in any application - things just need to meet certain (important) specifications. In fact, as I have stated in an earlier post, I intend to go about lubing (er...cleaning) my chain with WD-40 once I run through the case of DuPont Teflon spray that I purchased.

Originally Posted by BLACK DOG

My guess would be that the only group more polarized on the virtues & terrors of WD-40 would be the shooting community

Please note my statement above. I am quite ambivalent about WD-40 except that it seems to be used on very long-lived chains associated with fasteddiecopeman and watt-man. (Of course, having lived in New Mexico my entire life except for a 6-year stint in San Diego, I should appreciate WD-40. It is a genuine San Diego product.)

Originally Posted by crow

Try actual researching your not getting any facts to give you any credible argument...

I was not making an argument. I was answering your question. My family hates the fact that I take most statements literally. In this case, I was really just kidding. It is amazing how the interwebs can take statements and increase them all out of proportion.

Take care my antipodean friend.

[crow]

Originally Posted by Mursili

I was not making an argument. I was answering your question. My family hates the fact that I take most statements literally. In this case, I was really just kidding. It is amazing how the interwebs can take statements and increase them all out of proportion.

Take care my antipodean friend.

No worries mate she'll be right.
I read on another on another thread about a chain oiler called Tutorro. Looked pretty cheap with the goodies you get in the deluxe kit so I ordered one. I need a postman parcel fix. http://www.tutorochainoiler.com/inde...duct/view/1/15

[tripper]

I asked a Tsubaki factory chain rep what lube he recommended for an O ring chain and he said, and I quote, "don't use anything that says chain lube on the can." He hated Chain Wax. He said that all those lubes do is attract dirt. A year or so later he and I had the same discussion and he had come to appreciate dry lubes, like Bel Ray Super Clean chain lube.

I tried a simple test on a sheet of aluminum that I left out in the Texas sun for a while. I sprayed a dab of each of the lubes I had in my cabinet,( Silkolene, Chain Wax, PJ1, WD40, Permatex, and others) and Bel Ray Super Clean. I gave the samples plenty of time let the carriers evaporate and then I took a hand full of dirt and sand and threw it on the aluminum. The Bel Ray collected the least amount of grit by a lot.

So, I have used the Bel Ray ever since and I usually change chain a sprockets at about 15,000 miles.

[invader]

http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/motorcycle-chain-lube/

http://www.belray.com/how-apply-bel-ray-chain-lube

I still like my Maxima synthetic Chain Guard (not Chain Wax).

http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/motor...a-chain-guard/

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Baron650

So, question for you then: Assuming the front sprocket is 90% worn, doesn't that mean that the chain and sprocket set is 90% worn? 8500 miles doesn't seem that great.
Or would you consider just replacing the individual components as they wear out? Front sprocket now, rear one in another 8k, chain after that. I would think that a 50-70% worn chain would wear the new sprockets pretty fast. Also, it seems strange that the front sprocket is wearing that much faster, usually the rear starts to show some hooking while the front is still pretty good.

The chain and rear sproket are in good shape. I agree 8.5k miles is not much and I was also surprised.

I don't usually change just one component of the kit, it will indeed make the new sproket wear quicker. But due to the low mileage and condition of the other components I will give it a go.