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  #181  
Old 01-03-2013, 09:53 PM
Mountain Man Mountain Man is offline
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Ok, the Install is finished. All three AC wires are spliced w/the headlight tap right here.

[IMG][/IMG]



Everything is shrink wrapped and sheathed in plastic conduit and zipped tied. There are no friction connectors anywhere on the install, just direct splicing.

The Positive wire is now equipped w/a sealed Mertir-pack style fuse holder that is loaded w/a 30 AMP fuse. You can see it on top of the battery. The one that came w/the Compufire was not as nice. It was not waterproof.

[IMG][/IMG]



The Neg wire is grounded on the other side of the sub frame ground location.




The original connector that connected to the original R/R is sealed off, pulled up into the cavity between the engine and air box and secured.

The 3 termanal connector that originally mated to the stator is cut off and 2 of the 3 wires are terminated w/these......



And the 3rd one is the headlight relay tap. It's extended and routed through a length of Hi temp vacuum line, and then it is covered w/plastic conduit. You can see it the center of the below pic.



Before I spliced any of the Stator leads I measured VAC at A-B, A-C, B-C. At 4000 RPM I measured just uround 48 VAC at each.

With everything completed I measured 14.37 VDC at the battery terminals at high idle. [apx 1500 RPM] I had no time to get a reading at low idle /operating temperature cause I didn't want to open my garage door to warm it up.

I'm happy w/that.

It's late so I'm done for tonight. Tomorrow I'll test for any parasitic draw and post up my findings. If I have any I'll prolly just fuse the ground as I mentioned.

BTW, what is a good "resting voltage" in a cold garage. I won't flinch to replace the battery if needed.
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  #182  
Old 01-04-2013, 04:12 PM
onewizard onewizard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
Ok, the Install is finished. All three AC wires are spliced w/the headlight tap right here.

[IMG][/IMG]



Everything is shrink wrapped and sheathed in plastic conduit and zipped tied. There are no friction connectors anywhere on the install, just direct splicing.

The Positive wire is now equipped w/a sealed Mertir-pack style fuse holder that is loaded w/a 30 AMP fuse. You can see it on top of the battery. The one that came w/the Compufire was not as nice. It was not waterproof.

[IMG][/IMG]



The Neg wire is grounded on the other side of the sub frame ground location.




The original connector that connected to the original R/R is sealed off, pulled up into the cavity between the engine and air box and secured.

The 3 termanal connector that originally mated to the stator is cut off and 2 of the 3 wires are terminated w/these......



And the 3rd one is the headlight relay tap. It's extended and routed through a length of Hi temp vacuum line, and then it is covered w/plastic conduit. You can see it the center of the below pic.



Before I spliced any of the Stator leads I measured VAC at A-B, A-C, B-C. At 4000 RPM I measured just uround 48 VAC at each.

With everything completed I measured 14.37 VDC at the battery terminals at high idle. [apx 1500 RPM] I had no time to get a reading at low idle /operating temperature cause I didn't want to open my garage door to warm it up.

I'm happy w/that.

It's late so I'm done for tonight. Tomorrow I'll test for any parasitic draw and post up my findings. If I have any I'll prolly just fuse the ground as I mentioned.

BTW, what is a good "resting voltage" in a cold garage. I won't flinch to replace the battery if needed.
First let me say a awesome write up, if you go towards the foot brake side of your bike, just on the other side of your wire strippers, you will find the frame ground, ECU, tail light signal light etc. is connected at this point.

If you remove your ground and put your ammeter in series, you should get around 24 milliamp, if you check at the battery positive it will be around 27 milliamp ( ECU draws around 1 to 3 milliamp, varying over time) at this rate your 10 amp hour battery will be half dead in 7 days or totally dead in 15 days.

My garage is close to 5'C now, battery is going on 6 years, I charge it every two months, for six hours, in the winter, right now it measures 12.25 VDC, been almost a month since last charge ( I have a relay in series with regulator ground).

Your install looks awesome
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  #183  
Old 01-04-2013, 05:47 PM
Mountain Man Mountain Man is offline
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Quote:
QUOTE=onewizard;225340]First let me say a awesome write up, if you go towards the foot brake side of your bike, just on the other side of your wire strippers, you will find the frame ground, ECU, tail light signal light etc. is connected at this point.
Yes, Every year I take that one apart and scuff it and the steel it contacts w/emery cloth to keep good ground flow. I put it on the opposite side to balance out the universe.



Quote:
If you remove your ground and put your ammeter in series, you should get around 24 milliamp, if you check at the battery positive it will be around 27 milliamp ( ECU draws around 1 to 3 milliamp, varying over time) at this rate your 10 amp hour battery will be half dead in 7 days or totally dead in 15 days.
I just went down and measured the parasitic draw.

1st w/the R/R fuse out..........



And now w/the fuse in........



As soon as touch the neg batt terminal and the main ground cable w/the meter probes I hear something in the font of the bike energize and the meter spikes to 64.00 MA and then w/in a second it settles to these 2 above readings.


Quote:
My garage is close to 5'C now, battery is going on 6 years, I charge it every two months, for six hours, in the winter, right now it measures 12.25 VDC, been almost a month since last charge ( I have a relay in series with regulator ground).

Since I'm going the low tech option for now, and addressing the draw issue w/just pulling the fuse, would it be OK just to control it w/the R/R positive fuse that's already installed?

I can't see a need to put a fuse on the R/R ground if I'm doing the same thing upstream. [so to speak]


Quote:
Your install looks awesome


It was your guidance that contributed to the success, and I'm thankful for your help.



Now to evaluate the condition of my battery.

The Battery tender has been on since I left it last night. I removed it a few minutes ago and I performed a load test on it w/this [My garage toaster]and it measured somewhere between 9 1/2-10 volts after a 15 second dwell.

But that was might be kinda inconclusive since it was fresh off the charger. Now I'll have to bring it back up and then rest it again to get a more accurate test at a "rested voltage" I'll post up my readings.
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  #184  
Old 01-04-2013, 07:38 PM
onewizard onewizard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
Yes, Every year I take that one apart and scuff it and the steel it contacts w/emery cloth to keep good ground flow. I put it on the opposite side to balance out the universe.





I just went down and measured the parasitic draw.

1st w/the R/R fuse out..........



And now w/the fuse in........



As soon as touch the neg batt terminal and the main ground cable w/the meter probes I hear something in the font of the bike energize and the meter spikes to 64.00 MA and then w/in a second it settles to these 2 above readings.





Since I'm going the low tech option for now, and addressing the draw issue w/just pulling the fuse, would it be OK just to control it w/the R/R positive fuse that's already installed?

I can't see a need to put a fuse on the R/R ground if I'm doing the same thing upstream. [so to speak]






It was your guidance that contributed to the success, and I'm thankful for your help.



Now to evaluate the condition of my battery.

The Battery tender has been on since I left it last night. I removed it a few minutes ago and I performed a load test on it w/this [My garage toaster]and it measured somewhere between 9 1/2-10 volts after a 15 second dwell.

But that was might be kinda inconclusive since it was fresh off the charger. Now I'll have to bring it back up and then rest it again to get a more accurate test at a "rested voltage" I'll post up my readings.
I am kind of glad that I never ever got around to taking pictures of my install, because after my install and all the changes that came later, and as a result of that, coaching your install has produced a far easier and superior install. I really like the two decimal place Greenlee, although all my stuff is either Fluke, Tektronixs, or Simpson.

Pulling the 30 amp solution is the simple fix, I don't have that option because I tied my positive into the OEM harness, once I discovered the problem, I didn't feel like taking everything apart and extending the positive wire ( cut about 2 feet off :<( )

I need to do some digging on load testing, have a post somewhere here. The manual gives a multiplier for your amp hour rating as to load test current, my load tester is a simple one, so I had to modify the test by changing the test time. As soon as I find it I will link or post.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...4&postcount=35 3X amp hour rating is 3 x 10 = 30 amp @ 15 seconds, take your actual current draw of load tester and divide that by the 30 amp, take this number and divide it into 15 seconds, this will give you the test time for your load tester.


My plan is to isolate my stator output and use fixed 75 to 100 watt resistors @ about 4 to 6 ohm, measure, the AC voltage @ idle and ac current, measure AC voltage and current@ 4000 to 5000 rpm . The purpose of this is to see how close Kawasaki was on the turns ratio. To explain, the stator and rotor have a total magnetic flux handling available, we will say 340 VA or watts. V is volts A amps, as a example say the output was 340 volts = 1 amp, that would mean the regulator would need to drop more than 90% of the voltage output and have a current limit of 1 amp.The ideal output voltage is that that just maintains the loads @ idle , one option I am looking at is changing the winding to a delta connected stator, which would involve more turns @ a smaller gauge wire, output voltage between idle and 5000 RPM would be much closer than the OEM Y connection.

Again, thanks for the pictures and a very descriptive write up.

Last edited by onewizard; 01-04-2013 at 08:24 PM.
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  #185  
Old 01-04-2013, 08:32 PM
Mountain Man Mountain Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onewizard View Post
I am kind of glad that I never ever got around to taking pictures of my install, because after my install and all the changes that came later, and as a result of that, coaching your install has produced a far easier and superior install. I really like the two decimal place Greenlee, although all my stuff is either Fluke, Tektronixs, or Simpson.
I had an advantage of my stator came back w/very long wires extending from the rubber case grommet. I think that's what started the idea of bypassing the existing harness. The next guy after, and so on and so on will each benefit from those before. I've always been mechanically inclined but, w/o your electrical experience this would of been uneasy for me.

I initially wanted the Fluke, but became a little bashful after finding out the price. I'm hoping this meter will suffice for my usage. It cost me a little under $40.


Quote:
Pulling the 30 amp solution is the simple fix, I don't have that option because I tied my positive into the OEM harness, once I discovered the problem, I didn't feel like taking everything apart and extending the positive wire ( cut about 2 feet off :<( )
Don't rule out that I won't follow your lead and add a relay later. Time will tell. I have a spare hi amp relay from an old set of PIAA fog lights.
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  #186  
Old 01-04-2013, 08:49 PM
Mountain Man Mountain Man is offline
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Quote:
Quote from Onewizard......One other thing, on a deeply discharged battery, starting the bike and riding it is a sure way to finish off the battery, the alternator doesn't limit the charge current , a proper battery tender or motorcycle charger limits the current to about 1 amp.
Funny you should mention that. When my stator fried I was about an 1 1/2 hrs from home in lower 20'sF and it was dark. I changed out of my heated gear and turned of my heated grips. I put on my back up fleece jacket and pants, and wool socks and winter gloves

A Cop gave me a jump, and off I went. I watched my headlight get dimmer and dimmer. Eventually my inst panel went out, but the bike kept on running all the way to my garage. After i turned it off, for fun I hit the starter button. It didn't even have enough juice to energize the starter relay.
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  #187  
Old 01-05-2013, 05:44 PM
Mountain Man Mountain Man is offline
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After a full day of work I came home and measured my "rested voltage" on my battery. 13.00 VDC. It's in the mid 40's F in my garage.

I performed a Load Test and it did not drop below 12.6 VDC .

So I'm pretty sure my one year old AGM battery survived the charging system incident.
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  #188  
Old 01-09-2013, 09:53 PM
TXMedic TXMedic is offline
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new to the forum and loving the great info...enjoyed reading this 10pg thread; anybody having headlight relay issues with stator and R/R issues? I've replaced the stator but not the R/R yet. Headlight works fine until I'm at 4-5K rpm for 20 minutes then the relay pops. Mine is a 2008 with 30,000 miles
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  #189  
Old 01-10-2013, 05:53 AM
Mountain Man Mountain Man is offline
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When you say it "pops", does this mean it outright fails, or just de-energizes?
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  #190  
Old 01-10-2013, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXMedic View Post
new to the forum and loving the great info...enjoyed reading this 10pg thread; anybody having headlight relay issues with stator and R/R issues? I've replaced the stator but not the R/R yet. Headlight works fine until I'm at 4-5K rpm for 20 minutes then the relay pops. Mine is a 2008 with 30,000 miles
'Bad regulator ate my headlights.....'

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ad.php?t=21707
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  #191  
Old 01-10-2013, 09:20 AM
TXMedic TXMedic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
When you say it "pops", does this mean it outright fails, or just de-energizes?
outright fails and I have to replace the relay box; not sure I know what de-energizes looks like
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  #192  
Old 01-10-2013, 07:10 PM
onewizard onewizard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXMedic View Post
outright fails and I have to replace the relay box; not sure I know what de-energizes looks like
Add a little insight here. The headlight relay has two control sources in parallel, one source is the stator AC one phase, the second comes from the power output, through a diode to the relay coil. Once the stator produces enough AC equal to around 10 volts,(this is rectified through a single diode) the relay pulls in, once this relay pulls in and the contacts close, a second circuit with a blocking diode,connected to the output side of the relay contact and also connected to the coil. This circuit is to latch or lock in your headlight relay, one downfall to this circuit is if your regulator craps out , and that ac 1 phase circuit is allowed to run free, it is possible to have 48 VDC or higher on your headlight relay, this relay will burn out if the diode doesn't fail first.
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  #193  
Old 01-10-2013, 07:23 PM
onewizard onewizard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A2RON View Post
'Bad regulator ate my headlights.....'

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ad.php?t=21707
Very good chance your regulator is damaged, if you have a meter, a couple simple tests beyond what the manual says, the manual has some excellent tests, however both a meter and a second battery are required.

The first test involves checking the AC volts at the regulator with the bike at idle. If you have a piece of old telephone wire, strip 3 pieces and try and insert one each in the female socket ( you could also strip a twist tie for the wire). The idea is to measure the ac voltage on all three phases. A-B, B-C, and C-A, they should be less than 18 VAC.

Next test the battery voltage, should be around 14.2 VDC or less.
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  #194  
Old 01-10-2013, 08:41 PM
TXMedic TXMedic is offline
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Thx for your time and the great info...I need to digest it all and will start with the tests next week...ready to ride and not be working this issue anymore
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  #195  
Old 01-23-2013, 07:06 PM
urbanXJ urbanXJ is offline
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Looks like we can add my red baby 2008 (34k dd commuter miles, two track days) to the list.

Great thread. I will know for sure when I open it up. I am looking for a local place to rewind and coat it.

Funny thing is, I think the stock Yusa battery out lasted the stator (I think the stator killed the battery, and my new cyclegear battery).

Adding this tomorrow: http://www.aerostich.com/sale/20-off...tal-meter.html for 30 bucks.

The job seams pretty easy looking gat the other threads here.
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  #196  
Old 01-26-2013, 09:15 AM
hoodlum hoodlum is offline
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Default stator burned

Add my 2008 to the list...Never completely failed,just lost lots of the output...Had one coil fried....I bought another from rmstator as well as a new r/r just in case...Sending my factory out to have it rewound by http://www.customrewind.com and should have a spare within a couple of weeks.....
Hoodlum
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  #197  
Old 01-27-2013, 05:23 PM
TXMedic TXMedic is offline
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Ok, solved for now and hopefully for good. problem was that Kawasaki changed the stator but not the r/r; they said the r/r tested fine... once i replaced the r/r and the third relay box it is all working great. thanks for all the great help folks.
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  #198  
Old 02-03-2013, 12:29 PM
urbanXJ urbanXJ is offline
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old stator is out, one terminal or node is burnt out.

It was running between 11.6 and 12.5 volts riding down the road.

New stator seems to have a thicker epoxy coating too...

PS, that voltmeter I linked, the back lighting stays on all the time.
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  #199  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:17 AM
Ted Ted is offline
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[QUOTE=onewizard;224694]Well I looked at the drawing and that drawing is essentially the Versys headlight relay circuit.

One Wizard, this is from your posting #167 (my question follows):

Since I have already installed one and reviewed my install, this is what I would do if I replaced my bike with yours;

#1 take the side cover off located above the alternator, exposing the alternator 3 phase wire connector.
#2 strip about a 1/4 inch of insulation off each of the white wires in a staggered formation , then solder the three wires from the new regulator, tape with rubber tape or silicone seal caulking. An alternate method would be to use 10 gauge insulated but splices, wire from the alternator and wire from regulator in bottom of but splice, then double over the wire going to the connector, this end goes into top of but splice, do the same for all three----------if you knew which wire pulls on the headlight relay you would only need to do one wire ( I need to test this, what should happen is if you connected positive to one of the black 3 phase wires, the headlight relay should pull in, that is with the alternator stator disconnected-----I need to prove this-not tonight)
#3 run both positive and negative output wires their full length, connect negative to frame ground, positive to a 30 amp weatherproof fuse holder, from the fuse holder go direct to battery OR connect to 12 volt relay, from relay connect to battery. Use your tail light wire to drive the relay, connect other side of relay coil to existing frame ground.
#4 rubber tape original plug to old regulator----gives the option of connecting OEM regulator when you sell the bike

I did #1, 2, 3, 4 as above, using wire similar to what Mtn. Man did, from the stator wires to the R/R center wires, leaving old wiring intact. Neg from R/R went to frame ground. Pos from R/R went to 30A fused wire to battery pos terminal. I will control parasitic draw by pulling fuse vs installing another relay on my bike.

The question is: no one has mentioned whether it's important to connect particular wires from the stator to the center 3 R/R wires. Does it matter - if so how should it be done? Or just connect the 3 wires - no particular order?

Thanks for your help - you have way more electronics expertise than I do.
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  #200  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:42 AM
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As previously mentioned, it doesn't matter which of the 3 stator wires goes on which 3 center R/R wires... All 3 do the same job independently.
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