Burnt Stators

[Mountain Man]

Originally Posted by RockyMoto

Seriously, I learn a lot about this bike on this site too.

I'm curious...would you (or others) explain how this malady occurred? I mean, did you just go to start your bike one day and nothing, took it to the shop and they diagnosed it? Did it crap out while riding? Were there any "signs" and "signals" before the failure? I ask because my V is closing in on 38,000 miles...I am covered for the next 2 1/2 years under warranty, so I am not particularly worried, but I just want to have "my head up" (if possible).

What Invader is trying to say is electronic devices stay alive by holding in smoke. The moment they give up their smoke, the game is over.

here's your proof...................

[Mursili]

Originally Posted by Mountain Man

What Invader is trying to say is electronic devices stay alive by holding in smoke. The moment they give up their smoke, the game is over.

Sometimes you can replace the smoke. I assume that Kawasaki doesn't mention that fact in order to increase sales of stators...

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10622

http://www3.telus.net/bc_triumph_registry/smoke.htm

[Mountain Man]

Well I ordered the Compu-fire R/R from my local dealer. He quoted me somewhere in the ballpark of $170ish. The Stator is on it's way to CUSTOM REWIND in Alabama to get rewound. I'm feeling better now that the ball is rolling.

[Mountain Man]

Wow, I just got off the phone from Compufire. I spoke w/one of their engineers, [his name was Ian]. I faxed him the wiring diagram of our charging system. He played the liability card on me and said that he does not recommend using their Reg/Rect on our bike. He said that this unit was specifically designed for a direct replacement for Harley Davidson charging sys.
I responded that I was expecting no accountability, but just some general guidelines. I told him that others were using their Series Reg/Rect w/no issues other than that they were bleeding to ground when sitting for extended periods.
He did not comment on this, even when prodded twice. He did mention that he has heard of some of the incidents of folks soldering the connections together and highly recommended against it. He said that Compufire had chosen multi-strand wire because that current flows on the outside of each strand and a soldered connection impedes proper current flow. He said only properly crimped connections are recommended. I didn’t banter w/him, but I don’t really understand his logic. Now there is good reason for this, I’m not an expert in his field.
I asked him if he would comment or recommend a single pole switch to break the ground circuit. He said he would rather not comment, but said that nothing short of a marine grade high current battery cut-off switch will do. Something that will handle the minimum of 40Amps.
So now I have cold feet. The part has already been ordered, and it’s on its way.
Can someone give me some encouragement? I could use some right about now.

[olegeezer]

Originally Posted by Mountain Man

Can someone give me some encouragement? I could use some right about now.

I can only say (due to liability reasons) , that I installed said Comp-U-far and it has performed to my (meager) expectations in excess of 20000 miles. I put it on at less than 3000 miles as a purely preventative measure prior to long ride to Mexico and back. I soldered and crimped my connections. I do have a larger than desirable battery discharge rate but I don't let mine sit for long. When the bike is idle for a few days I put it on a tender. I'm happy so far.
Good luck.
OG

[invader]

You're worried about your switch? You haven't told us what its current rating is... Maximum alternator output is 24 amps, 14 volts @ 5000 rpm (336 watts), so a 30 amp switch should be fine.

I left the stock connector on the R/R wires, and just twisted and soldered the Compufire wires onto it. I can always keep the Compufire to use on my next new motorcycle, and reinstall stock R/R on the Versys for when I sell it.

Others have tried reasoning with the Compufire guys before, with the same results. What the hell are you worried about?

[onewizard]

Originally Posted by Mountain Man

Wow,Compufire had chosen multi-strand wire because that current flows on the outside of each strand and a soldered connection impedes proper current flow. He said only properly crimped connections are recommended. I could use some right about now.

Well that"s the first time I ever heard that, did you know that some manufacturers of high current equipment crimp and solder their connections, I work on this every day, most of it is water cooled and I am dealing with thousands of amps.
As to traveling on the surface, it is more to do with AC high voltage and AC higher frequencies----------------NOT DC. If you want to read more detail >
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect

I soldered all my connections except the ground, which extends up to my relay, the reason being that I could remove the compu-fire and plug the original regulator back into service.

As to switches, the one you picked will be fine, if you are worried, look for a two pole of that version, and parallel the contacts, in fact you could get a 2 pole 20 amp and parallel it = 40 amp.

And if it makes you feel any better, I called them too, absolutely no help , almost sounded like somebody else was making them for them. I asked if it was possible to bring the regulator input out as a separate wire, it is currently attached to the positive output. Right away he cautioned this was made for Harleys and Hondas, and he recommended not to use it. I guess saying not to use it is better than saying you have no clue, and just answer the phone for basic non technical questions.

[onewizard]

Originally Posted by invader

You're worried about your switch? You haven't told us what its current rating is... Maximum alternator output is 24 amps, 14 volts @ 5000 rpm (336 watts), so a 30 amp switch should be fine.

I left the stock connector on the R/R wires, and just twisted and soldered the Compufire wires onto it. I can always keep the Compufire to use on my next new motorcycle, and reinstall stock R/R on the Versys for when I sell it.

Others have tried reasoning with the Compufire guys before, with the same results. What the hell are you worried about?

Should have read your post, could have saved some typing---------couldn't have said it better--------really wonder how some people stay in business, when you contact customer support and that's what you get.

[Mountain Man]

Yeah this movement from soldering to crimping is something that passed me buy.
I mean I was always aware of crimping as I knew it as quick and cheap.

Using this stuff..............




Useing these methods and tools was always a shortcut w/reduction in quality for me so I always soldered as I was taught years ago.

But What I was not aware of, that I have just been turned on to from yesterdays research is that soldering has been abandoned by almost every industry.

Aerospace
Aviation
Professional racing
Telecommunications

the list goes on.

Just type in "Solder vs Crimp" into a search engine and see what I've been reading.

Of course the tools and hardware are different than I knew of. For example just a mediocre crimp pliers start around $200. This one below is about $400 from Klein.



Here's just one of the pieces that I have read. Please read, for me it was revealing.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/wire_termination

[El Tig]

Sounds like soldering, like many things, is going the way of handwritten letters sent through the mail.

Holy cow! $400 for a crimping tool - mindblowing. But after reading that article it does make sense to have a 'certified' crimper for aviation work.

[ttpete]

You don't have to pay $400 for a decent ratchet crimper. But don't use those cheap insulated terminals. Use open barrel connectors that are correct for the wire size and a piece of shrink tubing for an insulator.

Eastern Beaver has all kinds of wiring parts for Motorcycles.

Here's a nice crimp tool with interchangeable dies that'll do just about everything:

Amazon

Amazon

[onewizard]

Several reasons for crimping over soldering, soldering requires special tools and the right solder, also requires a certain amount of skill and preparation, I have seen cold solder joints, aslo seen were somebody used acid core flux on solder on control install. I have a T&B crimper and a set of Ideal wire stripper crimpers.

What I did was solder my connections to the existing harness, and staggered the connections, so the connections were 3/4 of a inch apart vertically, and taped my OEM plug for the regulator. The second, and most important, and this applies to everything including crimps, I increased the surface area of my connections, that is the wire striped was 3/4 of a inch long, the harness conductor insulation was striped about 3/8 of a inch, so I got about three wraps around the harness conductor, before I solder it.An increase in surface area translates into a increase in conductivity.

I use the T&B on both insulated and non insulated, I also have a crimper for insulated 10 gauge crimps on my Klein linesman pliers.I can honestly say that the ring of the crimp will break before you pull the wire out.
If you have the time and knowledge, I can honestly say my solder connection is superior to almost any crimp, the exception is when you get into larger wire sizes.

At one time the standard for crimping was to use a set of dies and hydraulic crimper specific to the wire and crimp, aluminum and copper. In both cases, a proper crimp using a Burndy tool would show the die number on the crimp, if the die number didn't show, that was a indication of a faulty crimper. In large wire sizes, there are long barrel and short barrel crimps, it is important that the wire is free of oxide, that applies to soldering as well.


As to crimpers, they now make die less crimpers, about twice as fast as hydraulic, and much cheaper-------------another subject no Biker ever needs to worry about. JMHO

[Mountain Man]

Originally Posted by invader

You're worried about your switch? You haven't told us what its current rating is... Maximum alternator output is 24 amps, 14 volts @ 5000 rpm (336 watts), so a 30 amp switch should be fine.

I left the stock connector on the R/R wires, and just twisted and soldered the Compufire wires onto it. I can always keep the Compufire to use on my next new motorcycle, and reinstall stock R/R on the Versys for when I sell it.

Others have tried reasoning with the Compufire guys before, with the same results. What the hell are you worried about?

I somehow overlooked you post Invader. I apologize.

To answer your question about the switch is I'm not using one. I let the bike sit for more than one day only a small handful of times a year. And when I do It's in my garage on a Battery Tender Plus. So I'm just installing a 30 AMP waterproof fuse to ground. It's one that's been sitting in my elec box for years unused.






If I didn't have it I would buy one like this and route it near the rest of them in the battery tray area. Someone here said that there's one just like this that comes in the box w/unit anyhow. Mine should arrive any day now.

[onewizard]

Originally Posted by Mountain Man

I somehow overlooked you post Invader. I apologize.

To answer your question about the switch is I'm not using one. I let the bike sit for more than one day only a small handful of times a year. And when I do It's in my garage on a Battery Tender Plus. So I'm just installing a 30 AMP waterproof fuse to ground. It's one that's been sitting in my elec box for years unused.





If I didn't have it I would buy one like this and route it near the rest of them in the battery tray area. Someone here said that there's one just like this that comes in the box w/unit anyhow. Mine should arrive any day now.

So if you want to disconnect, you pull the fuse, just about as simple as a male and female stakon. I am going on 5 years on the oem battery, I have worked with many types and styles of batteries over the last 40 years, what is important is not to overcharge or cook the battery, continuous charging generally leads to evaporation. The most promising are the AGM batteries.If I had a AGM battery I wouldn't care about the regulator draining the battery.

I am not a fan of battery tenders, if you have a really good and reliable one , I would be interested in the make and what you paid for it.

[invader]

The original Yuasa battery does have AGM seperators... It is important to stop charging AGM batteries when it reaches 14.4 volts charging voltage, as are AGM battery chargers programmed. I just put it on an automatic charger set at 2 amps until it reaches 14.4V. The charging amperage is automatically matched to battery's state of charge and gradually reduced as battery charges up.
Battery sulfation is faster when discharged. The desulfator I got for $26 works great. It shows battery voltage, then starts desufating until battery voltage drops to about 11.5V. It also works well while charging.

[Mountain Man]

I am not a fan of battery tenders, if you have a really good and reliable one , I would be interested in the make and what you paid for it.

Your run of the mill Deltran Battery Tender Plus. 1.25A till it senses to relax. As far as reliabiliy, it did fail a few years back. I sent it back to Deltran, and they sent me a new one free of charge. Other than that I've been happy w/it. I usually get around that 5yr life out of my batteries, so I guess I'm not doing anything wrong.

Stators, now that's another story.

[Ivan V]

Originally Posted by onewizard

I am not a fan of battery tenders, if you have a really good and reliable one , I would be interested in the make and what you paid for it.

To my knowledge, CTEK chargers are very good, if not the best.
I use this one for the Versys for about a year.
My '07. stock battery was getting weak and it struggled to fire up after a few days of sitting.
Now I keep it on the charger almost all the time and bike starts like dynamite (even after a 4-5 days off the charger).

Here's some reading about the chargers:
http://www.webbikeworld.com/r3/motor...y-chargers.htm


As far as the stators go, I plan to thoroughly check my Versys this spring for any sings of electrical fault. At about 25,000km (and one drop on the stator cover) it's in the risk zone.


Thank you everybody for contributing and for the dose of paranoia.

[ttpete]

Originally Posted by Mountain Man

Your run of the mill Deltran Battery Tender Plus. 1.25A till it senses to relax. As far as reliabiliy, it did fail a few years back. I sent it back to Deltran, and they sent me a new one free of charge. Other than that I've been happy w/it. I usually get around that 5yr life out of my batteries, so I guess I'm not doing anything wrong.

Stators, now that's another story.

Currently, I have 4 motorcycles, a generator, and a booster pack on Battery Tenders. I've never had a problem with any of them, and the oldest I bought 20 odd years ago. If a unit isn't being used or ridden, it's on the tender 24/7.

[onewizard]

Originally Posted by invader

The original Yuasa battery does have AGM seperators...The desulfator I got for $26 works great. It shows battery voltage, then starts desufating until battery voltage drops to about 11.5V. It also works well while charging.

I tried searching your posts, recall reading your post, if you don't mind, something I am interested in.

[invader]

Originally Posted by onewizard

I tried searching your posts, recall reading your post, if you don't mind, something I am interested in.

Desulfator? Now $18.11 total with $8 coupon.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Auto-...609187481.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/prod...577706282.html

Many of the same are sold on Ebay for at least twice as much, and with good feedback.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Battery-Desu...8c8b16&vxp=mtr

Or you can get a nice automatic 1.5A charger/desulfator... $41.33 with $8 coupon. (Confirm minimal shipping cost via Singapore Post with seller)

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/12V-1...480896058.html

Or 0.6A for $49.99 http://www.ebay.com/itm/TECMATE-OPTI...9d3f18&vxp=mtr