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  #1  
Old 11-04-2011, 05:22 PM
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Default Chasing down an oil-leak in my '08

I've been finding oil drops under my bike for the last few weeks. I removed the plastic lower guards to have a look. Lower area up to about 3/4 of the height of the water-pump area was wet, and oil was present underneath the sump, etc. Wiped it off and got sockets to check for anything loose. Everything was tight, so I tightened the oil filter a bit, and re-wiped it all down.

Today I figured to revisit the issue as more oil drops were showing up after rides, so off came the lower guards and I wiped everything down. As I tried to figure where it could be leaking from (and planning on removing the water pump and associated STUFF.... ), I guess I got an "electric light bulb" moment thinking how air-flows in that area while riding - MAYBE it IS the filter, and they're cheap, so off it came and on went a new one. (I use ST7317 filters from WalMart. They suggest to hand tighten till contact, then another 3/4 turn which is what I've always done, but I knew that Kawasaki mandates 13 ft. pounds of torque, so I got out my torque wrench, and set it.)

I hand tightened it till contact, then added the filter wrench and torque wrench - by the time I got the "click" at 13'/# I had turned the filter ANOTHER ONE AND THREE QUARTER TURNS, a total of 2 1/2 turns after contact! I ran it, topped up the oil, and we'll see what happens. Right now, an hour later, the area is still dry.

I'll add to this post once I see whether or not I've fixed the problem, and IF I have, this'll just be a "heads-up" for any others here.
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My KLR trip to Alaska, YT, NWT and BC in summer 2009
http://www.klr650.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69383

My Versys trip to D2D 2013, and Alaska, June '13
http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ad.php?t=33153

Last edited by fasteddiecopeman; 11-04-2011 at 05:30 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-04-2011, 06:59 PM
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I will say that my Versys is the only vehicle of mine that gets a wrench applied to the oil filter. Kawasaki's torque spec is well tighter than the usual 3/4 turn after contact.
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:16 PM
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Can't you get it tight enough by hand? 13 ft-lbs will be too tight if there's oil on the seal, as there should be.
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:34 PM
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I do not remember that lubrication was part of the spec provided by ma Kawi. Of course such information is necessary to produce the desired load on the threads, but it is most often not provided in automotive contexts that I have seen. Perhaps I am wrong here.

I lightly oil the gasket (not the threads - although I somehow doubt that they are "clean and dry") and then I apply 13 ft-lb torque to the filter. So far it has worked for me.

I will point out that it is a statement from Invader that got me to stop torque wrenching my spark plugs and, instead, follow the torque instructions on the NGK box. Perhaps I am wrong about the way I torque my filters. I do it by turns on all of my four-wheeled conveyances.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mursili View Post
I do not remember that lubrication was part of the spec provided by ma Kawi. Of course such information is necessary to produce the desired load on the threads, but it is most often not provided in automotive contexts that I have seen. Perhaps I am wrong here.

I lightly oil the gasket (not the threads - although I somehow doubt that they are "clean and dry") and then I apply 13 ft-lb torque to the filter. So far it has worked for me.

I will point out that it is a statement from Invader that got me to stop torque wrenching my spark plugs and, instead, follow the torque instructions on the NGK box. Perhaps I am wrong about the way I torque my filters. I do it by turns on all of my four-wheeled conveyances.
I have been puzzled by the 13 FT LBS since day one and go crazy at the turn count every time I have done the oil change. I just performed oil change #8 a couple weeks and with lightly lubing the rubber seal I always have and never had a leak ever. The rubber seal starts to deflect.
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  #6  
Old 11-05-2011, 07:01 AM
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Just a second thought- Do you use any chain oiler. sometime you find a few drop of oil due to chain oiler and they do drip when parked. Most of it will be from the front sprocket area.

Oil filter or Kawa engine does not leak-IMHO

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Old 11-05-2011, 04:42 PM
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I quit using a torque wrench and went back to counting turns after I had a filter that was so difficult to remove that I had to stab a large screwdriver through it to turn off. That was not on a V, but the principle is the same. And yes, I tried all the usual tricks, strap wrench etc before the violent stabbing! Using the 3/4 turn after contact has never been a problem, no leaks and the filter always seems tighter on removal than when originally tightened. The main reason we over- tighten oil filters is likely due to the mayhem we know will result if it were to back off while riding, not a pleasant scenario.
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  #8  
Old 11-05-2011, 07:15 PM
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So far, since the torque-the-filter episode - NO drips. Previously, in ALL my cars, trucks, motorcycles, I've done whatever the filter manufacturer has said to do. Because of this "leak" (DEFINITELY NOT chain lube [WD40 in this case]) I'm trying 'Ma Kawasaki's' instructions, and YES I oiled the filter O-ring. Going riding tomorrow, so - we'll see.
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My KLR trip to Alaska, YT, NWT and BC in summer 2009
http://www.klr650.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69383

My Versys trip to D2D 2013, and Alaska, June '13
http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ad.php?t=33153
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  #9  
Old 11-06-2011, 09:38 PM
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Rode about 80 miles today, then checked for leaks when I got home: MOSTLY dry, especially near the filter, but a drop on the "M8" bolt just above and slightly behind the mid-point of the filter when viewing from the right side. In my Service Manual for the 2010 V, there's a diagram with it on page "CRANKSHAFT/TRANSMISSION 9-11", the diagram on upper right labelled on its bottom as 'G104353BS2 C', and it is the TOP bolt of the upper-left two marked B, the first one after the line of five "M6" bolts, ALL used to split the crankcase (with several others).

I'm leaning towards removing the bolt (which is definitely SNUG right now), and then adding a copper gasket OR gasket maker liquid to it, then re-torquing it.

Any thoughts? Especially from any of you who've had the cases split.
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My KLR trip to Alaska, YT, NWT and BC in summer 2009
http://www.klr650.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69383

My Versys trip to D2D 2013, and Alaska, June '13
http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ad.php?t=33153
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  #10  
Old 11-07-2011, 07:29 AM
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IMO one should never exceed the vehicle manufacturer’s torque spec for the oil filter (to stay within the limits of the mounting bolts) but other than that, it is the oil filter manufacturer’s spec that should be used – because it is predicated on the specific oil filter’s gasket & its optimal compression.
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  #11  
Old 11-07-2011, 03:18 PM
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I just went out and ran my finger over the (previously) wet/ oily areas. They are DRY!

Can't (won't ) go for a ride today - it RAINED this morning. What kinda crap is THAT...? This is ARIZONA...!
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My KLR trip to Alaska, YT, NWT and BC in summer 2009
http://www.klr650.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69383

My Versys trip to D2D 2013, and Alaska, June '13
http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ad.php?t=33153
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  #12  
Old 12-05-2012, 01:47 PM
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On my recent Death Valley ride, thru a combination of factors I was able to figure out where the oil leak is - the water-pump housing area. I went to my local Kawi dealer and ordered a 33.2mm O-ring which the parts guy thought was the probable fix (Service Manual 4-10 to 4-12).

After changing out that O-ring yesterday, I put it all back together again, and had the SAME leak when I started it up, so today I removed my water-pump again and REALLY looked at the whole thing: on the "water pump housing" (a largely flat aluminum piece with a circular 'projection' on one side containing an oil seal) there's a small hole from around the seal area to where the 'weep' hole lets stuff leak out (in picture 1 the green 'arrow' points to the hole, while the 'circle' is around the seal), which leads me to believe that the oil seal has become faulty, and I'm ordering the related parts to FINALLY fix this leak (see picture 2)! If any of you have to go into your water-pump, my impeller was EXTREMELY difficult to remove, perhaps from 'rust' forming under it (see picture 3), so be fore-warned, and don't rush it and break something.

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Ed

My KLR trip to Alaska, YT, NWT and BC in summer 2009
http://www.klr650.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69383

My Versys trip to D2D 2013, and Alaska, June '13
http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ad.php?t=33153
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  #13  
Old 12-05-2012, 04:24 PM
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As for the oil filer specs I've always tightend mine to not-fall-off foot pounds. Never failed yet.
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2012, 02:57 PM
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If everything is OK with the filter and gasket it should need hardly any torque to stay dry. There is a large rubber gasket on it to prevent leakage. Did you wet the gasket with oil before tightening as most filters prescribe? Is the surface the gasket seals against clean and flat?

I would guess it is not an issue with torque so much on the filter as perhaps a bad gasket on it if the filter is in fact at fault.

I have never had leaks and never had to tighten more than by hand. I have heard of over tightening causing leaks on a car though by distorting the soft rubber gasket on the filter.
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:07 PM
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Hey Eddie! The only oil I ever had hit the ground was excess chain oil. It can collect in a funny stop and there is a thread on it! But maybe you got it? WD40 doesn't stick around.
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Last edited by MTS; 12-06-2012 at 05:17 PM.
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  #16  
Old 12-07-2012, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprocket View Post
If everything is OK with the filter and gasket it should need hardly any torque to stay dry. There is a large rubber gasket on it to prevent leakage. Did you wet the gasket with oil before tightening as most filters prescribe? Is the surface the gasket seals against clean and flat?

I would guess it is not an issue with torque so much on the filter as perhaps a bad gasket on it if the filter is in fact at fault.

I have never had leaks and never had to tighten more than by hand. I have heard of over tightening causing leaks on a car though by distorting the soft rubber gasket on the filter.
I only torqued that filter IN CASE it was causing the leak - it wasn't, so I'm back to... contact PLUS 3/4 of a turn... and - yes - I wet the filter gasket with engine oil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTS View Post
Hey Eddie! The only oil I ever had hit the ground was excess chain oil. It can collect in a funny stop and there is a thread on it! But maybe you got it? WD40 doesn't stick around.
No, but it DOES get onto the rear rim, so every now and then I get a clean rag, spray it with... (what else?)... WD40... and wipe it clean, which MIGHT last (the clean) for a day or two.
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My KLR trip to Alaska, YT, NWT and BC in summer 2009
http://www.klr650.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69383

My Versys trip to D2D 2013, and Alaska, June '13
http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ad.php?t=33153
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  #17  
Old 12-15-2012, 10:52 PM
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Yesterday I got a parcel from BikeBandit - my new oil seals! Got busy and pulled the water pump out again, 'picked' out the old rubbed oil-seals, then drove out the mechanical seals, cleaned everything up, pushed or 'drove' in the NEW ones, put it all back together, refilled the antifreeze and started BIG RED. After running for about 10 minutes (till the fan cycled ON), NO OIL LEAK, so I shut 'er down and put the plastic back on.

I believe this is called a "Eureka moment"....

Pictures and descriptions follow:
1. draining antifreeze;
2. water-pump removed;
3. new parts (right) and the water-pump impeller (inverted);
4. rear of impeller - oil seal removed;
5. impeller seals - old left, new right;
6. old oil-seal on left, new on right (from the water pump housing in next picture);
7. water pump housing with oil seal and mechanical seal (from bottom side) removed;
8. water pump housing seals - old left, new right; and
9. engine running with NO SEEP!





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Ed

My KLR trip to Alaska, YT, NWT and BC in summer 2009
http://www.klr650.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69383

My Versys trip to D2D 2013, and Alaska, June '13
http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ad.php?t=33153
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  #18  
Old 12-16-2012, 05:30 AM
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Nice job... What mileage is it at? What kind of yellow coolant was that?
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:18 PM
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Nice job... What mileage is it at? What kind of yellow coolant was that?
Just over 38,000 miles, and it's pre-mixed (50-50) Prestone for ALL makes, ALL models. On sale awhile back - and like MOST stuff here in the USA, CHEAP compared to Canada!
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My KLR trip to Alaska, YT, NWT and BC in summer 2009
http://www.klr650.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69383

My Versys trip to D2D 2013, and Alaska, June '13
http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ad.php?t=33153
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  #20  
Old 12-17-2012, 10:26 PM
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Got out for a 'longish' ride today.... What a treat to NOT see oil drips when I put it on its sidestand!

Or wipe my finger along the water-pump and have it come back DRY!
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Ed

My KLR trip to Alaska, YT, NWT and BC in summer 2009
http://www.klr650.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69383

My Versys trip to D2D 2013, and Alaska, June '13
http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ad.php?t=33153
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