Versys / Ninja 650 Interchangable?

[Tgoods]

Question for you Kawasaki experts out there: How much of the engine/electrical components are interchangable from the Versys to the Ninja 650? The reason I ask is because I have a Versys frame and wheels that I want to turn into a streetfighter. I'm wondering if I bought a crashed Ninja 650 could I take all the parts and put it into the Versys?

Thanks.

[ttpete]

Originally Posted by Tgoods

Question for you Kawasaki experts out there: How much of the engine/electrical components are interchangable from the Versys to the Ninja 650? The reason I ask is because I have a Versys frame and wheels that I want to turn into a streetfighter. I'm wondering if I bought a crashed Ninja 650 could I take all the parts and put it into the Versys?

Thanks.

PM jdrocks here. He's been doing mix and match with all of the variations. Check his posts here and on the ADVrider forum also.

[Retro Rocketeer]

I raced a Ninja 650R for two years. I used a Versys engine for spares. Engine wise, the only difference is the head height (lower compression), cams, ignition trigger. The heads are entirely swappable. I swapped heads and cams searching for different power curves. All the engine mounts are the same. You can do a direct swap from frame to frame. If you get the Power Commander V with ignition tune (same part # for Versys and Ninja), you can set ignition timing the same between the two engines with retard/advance.

If you are making a street fighter, I'd use the Versys head and cams and keep the lower RPM torque.

[invader]

Versys head is different (more volume) for lower compression. Versys inlet and exhaust cam lobes have less duration and lift than the 650R's... Versys inlet camshaft is however identical to 650R's exhaust camshaft All other engine components are the same.

Ninja 650R/ER6:
Inlet- open 31° BTDC................Exhaust- open 50° BBDC
close 61° ABDC........................close 30° ATDC
duration 272°..........................duration 260°
cam height 36.6 +/- 0.057 mm... cam height 35.9 +/- 0.057 mm

Versys:
Inlet- open 25° BTDC................Exhaust- open 47° BBDC
close 54° ABDC........................close 25° ATDC
duration 260°..........................duration 252°
cam height 35.9 +/- 0.057 mm... cam height 35.4 +/- 0.057 mm

ECU is also mapped differently. Versys ignition timing ranges from 10° BTDC @ 1300 rpm, to 33° BTDC @ 5000+ rpm.
650R: From 10° BTDC @ 1300 rpm, to 35° BTDC @ 4800+ rpm.

Versys also has a crossover tube in exhaust header, before collector.

Cylinder base gasket is about 0.25 mm thick. Head gasket is a 3-layer steel, about 0.75 mm thick... You can remove the center layer of the head gasket, using copper head gasket sealer to seal the outer layers together. Such is BRP's prefered method, instead of removing base gasket which also lowers any wear ridge at top of stroke.

Gary "BRP"
http://www.blueridgeperformance.net/

"We do not use high compression pistons. JE (forged) pistons weigh more than stock (cast aluminum) pistons. Heavier parts move slower. We run stock pistons, with a milled head and cylinder. Depending on the track, we use different combos of Versys and 650R cams. (A cheap route, is to install a Versys intake cam in your 650R, and put the 650R intake cam in the exhaust.) We have billet cams ready to grind, but until we start getting some requests, they will stay in the unground form. Proper porting & compression nets the biggest gains.
Stock rods stretch a lot faster. Not a big problem, until you start getting over 75 hp. My engine builder is currently building some flat track engines. One is a 700cc, the other 750 using stock bore/rod length, with stroked crank and custom built pistons, with pin location moved. Those should be in the 90+ hp range."

[Lours_Polaire]

Originally Posted by invader

Versys head is different (more volume) for lower compression. Versys inlet and exhaust cam lobes have less duration and lift than the 650R's... Versys inlet camshaft is however identical to 650R's exhaust camshaft.

Ninja 650R/ER6:
Inlet- open 31° BTDC................Exhaust- open 50° BBDC
close 61° ABDC........................close 30° ATDC
duration 272°..........................duration 260°
cam height 36.6 +/- 0.057 mm... cam height 35.9 +/- 0.057 mm

Versys:
Inlet- open 25° BTDC................Exhaust- open 47° BBDC
close 54° ABDC........................close 25° ATDC
duration 260°..........................duration 252°
cam height 35.9 +/- 0.057 mm... cam height 35.4 +/- 0.057 mm

ECU is also mapped differently. Versys ignition timing ranges from 10° BTDC @ 1300 rpm, to 33° BTDC @ 5000+ rpm.
ER-6: From 10° BTDC @ 1300 rpm, to 35° BTDC @ 4800+ rpm.

Versys also has a crossover tube in exhaust header, before collector.

Cylinder base gasket is about 0.25 mm thick. Head gasket is a 3-layer steel, about 0.75 mm thick... You can remove the center layer of the head gasket, using copper head gasket sealer to seal the outer layers together. Such is BRP's prefered method, instead of removing base gasket, alrhough lowering the cylinder also lowers any wear ridge at top of stroke.

Gary "BRP"
http://www.blueridgeperformance.net/

"We do not use high compression pistons. JE pistons weigh more than stock. Heavier parts move slower. We run stock pistons, with a milled head and cylinder. Depending on the track, we use different combos of Versys and 650R cams. (A cheap route, is to install a Versys intake cam in your 650R, and put the 650R intake cam in the exhaust.) We have billet cams ready to grind, but until we start getting some requests, they will stay in the unground form. Proper porting & compression nets the biggest gains.
Stock rods stretch a lot faster. Not a big problem, until you start getting over 75 hp. My engine builder is currently building some flat track engines. One is a 700cc, the other 750 using stock bore/rod length, with stroked crank and custom built pistons, with pin location moved. Those should be in the 90+ hp range."

Good info Invader !!!

LOP

[goat12]

Originally Posted by Lours_Polaire

Good info Invader !!!

LOP

About time Invader posted something useful on here!

Seriously, though- you're the man, Invader. Good info.

[Tgoods]

Originally Posted by Retro Rocketeer

I raced a Ninja 650R for two years. I used a Versys engine for spares. Engine wise, the only difference is the head height (lower compression), cams, ignition trigger. The heads are entirely swappable. I swapped heads and cams searching for different power curves. All the engine mounts are the same. You can do a direct swap from frame to frame. If you get the Power Commander V with ignition tune (same part # for Versys and Ninja), you can set ignition timing the same between the two engines with retard/advance.

If you are making a street fighter, I'd use the Versys head and cams and keep the lower RPM torque.

How did your 650r stack up against the sv650's out there?

So is the airbox on the Versys the same as the 650r too?

[Retro Rocketeer]

It did well enough to take two championships. I ported my head, milled the cylinder and head some. I ran the Versys intake cams and Ninja exhaust cams in different degrees and combinations. I had great midrange acceleration. Ultimately, its still easier to build an SV motor than an EX motor. There's just a lot more R&D in the SV. I chose the Ninja because I liked the chassis setup. The balance and distribution suited my riding style and preferences. I also got a smokin' deal on it, which never hurts. The Versys/Ninja motor's biggest weakness are the connecting rods. You need new rods at the end of every season if you don't want to buy aftermart race rods. The other huge weakness is the radiator. On the Ninja, its barely good enough for track day speeds, let alone higher compressions, and racing. I had an oversized rad built for racing.

The airboxes are the same.

[trialsguy]

Originally Posted by Retro Rocketeer

It did well enough to take two championships. I ported my head, milled the cylinder and head some. I ran the Versys intake cams and Ninja exhaust cams in different degrees and combinations. I had great midrange acceleration. Ultimately, its still easier to build an SV motor than an EX motor. There's just a lot more R&D in the SV. I chose the Ninja because I liked the chassis setup. The balance and distribution suited my riding style and preferences. I also got a smokin' deal on it, which never hurts. The Versys/Ninja motor's biggest weakness are the connecting rods. You need new rods at the end of every season if you don't want to buy aftermart race rods. The other huge weakness is the radiator. On the Ninja, its barely good enough for track day speeds, let alone higher compressions, and racing. I had an oversized rad built for racing.

The airboxes are the same.

Very nice! Which forks and brakes do you have on it?

[Baron650]

One of the things that attracted me to the Versys was the multi-platform approach. It should mean good parts availability (and cheaper parts) for a long time.
To the OP; sounds like you can stuff an engine from a crashed Ninja (maybe a 2012, better mid-range than the earlier ones) into your rolling chassis. Say, how did you end up with a Versys frame and wheels with no engine?

[Retro Rocketeer]

The front wheel and discs are 08 EX650R. Forks and brakes are 06 ZX6R mounted in 04 ZX6R triples. In current form, it weighs 372lbs with 1.5gal in the tank. Unfortunately, I suffered a severe crash at the end of my last season and opted to sell the bike. I wanted to install a Versys swingarm eventually, but was always a day late on bidding. I sold the bike to a friend, so I still have access to it. I like building bikes as much as racing them. I'm trying to free up some time to make me a cheater Versys of my 2008 V.

[Tgoods]

Originally Posted by Baron650

One of the things that attracted me to the Versys was the multi-platform approach. It should mean good parts availability (and cheaper parts) for a long time.
To the OP; sounds like you can stuff an engine from a crashed Ninja (maybe a 2012, better mid-range than the earlier ones) into your rolling chassis. Say, how did you end up with a Versys frame and wheels with no engine?

I bought a Versys frame and wheels from KLRsys. He bought a Versys and then put the engine in a KLR.


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[Tgoods]

Originally Posted by Retro Rocketeer

The front wheel and discs are 08 EX650R. Forks and brakes are 06 ZX6R mounted in 04 ZX6R triples. In current form, it weighs 372lbs with 1.5gal in the tank. Unfortunately, I suffered a severe crash at the end of my last season and opted to sell the bike. I wanted to install a Versys swingarm eventually, but was always a day late on bidding. I sold the bike to a friend, so I still have access to it. I like building bikes as much as racing them. I'm trying to free up some time to make me a cheater Versys of my 2008 V.

Okay I am looking at that air scoop above the radiator... Is that stock on the 650r?

I also noticed your radiator is pretty beat up. Does that affect the performance at all? I have a radiator guard on my sv650. Not sure if it was really worth the $75 bucks haha.


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[invader]

That's a home made air collector for the airbox inlet(s)... Radiator is ok. It's just bare and a bit stained.

[Retro Rocketeer]

The scoop gets a lot of attention.

Invader is correct. (Did you follow my antics on BRP's site?) The air scoop feeds air into the airbox via two ducting tubes. I lowered the radiator a little to accomodate it. No, its not RAM, but rather a way to direct cold air from above the radiator, rather than hot air from behind the radiator and off the top of the engine. Was it beneficial? Yes, of course. Most always is.

The radiator isn't as perfect as the day it was born off an FZR600, but cosmetics were the least of my priorities regarding the performance of the radiator. It was straight and flowed as it should. Mounts were welded on and the bottom inlet was relocated. The motor went from operating in the boil over zone to normal and acceptable operating temps.

[Tgoods]

Originally Posted by Retro Rocketeer

The scoop gets a lot of attention.

Invader is correct. (Did you follow my antics on BRP's site?) The air scoop feeds air into the airbox via two ducting tubes. I lowered the radiator a little to accomodate it. No, its not RAM, but rather a way to direct cold air from above the radiator, rather than hot air from behind the radiator and off the top of the engine. Was it beneficial? Yes, of course. Most always is.

The radiator isn't as perfect as the day it was born off an FZR600, but cosmetics were the least of my priorities regarding the performance of the radiator. It was straight and flowed as it should. Mounts were welded on and the bottom inlet was relocated. The motor went from operating in the boil over zone to normal and acceptable operating temps.

Sweet bike! Sorry to hear you crashed it. I am anxious for racing season to be here.

[Retro Rocketeer]

The crash was easier on the bike than me. $70.00 and it was fixed back up to pre-crash condition. The rider (me) unfortunately was not. I messed up my left shoulder pretty good. Its taken a year, but I'm almost to pre-crash physical condition. I still enjoy track riding, but the incident took a lot out of my racing motivation for the time being.

[twowheels]

The advertising info for the 2012 Ninja says they modified the engine for more torque. I believe but an not 100% certain they just stuck the Versys engine in it.

[invader]

Originally Posted by twowheels

The advertising info for the 2012 Ninja says they modified the engine for more torque. I believe but an not 100% certain they just stuck the Versys engine in it.

No... It's only the ECU's low-mid range fue/ignitionl map that was slightly improved. It now has a bit less peak torque (maybe), but the same peak power and rpm.

"The 2012 engine offers more low-mid range torque for more fun and greater usability in everyday riding situations, while maintaining the smooth, high-revving character of its predecessor."

2011: Maximum Power 53 kW {72.1 PS} @ 8,500 rpm
Maximum Torque 66 N.m {6.7 kgf.m} @ 7,000 rpm

2012: Maximum Power 53 kW {72.1 PS} / 8,500 rpm
Maximum Torque 64 N.m {6.5 kgf.m} / 7,000 rpm

[Baron650]

They also added the crossover pipe.


While it doesn't boost peak torque, it does help add punch to the mid-range.