Valve clearance check question

[fasteddiecopeman]

These digital calipers
http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-...per-47257.html
regularly go on sale (w/ a coupon) for $9.99, and the coupons are in the back of many car or motorcycle magazines. VERY accurate!

[Mt. Versuvius]

Originally Posted by michael95453

I had previously said that you DO have to remove the lower throttle cable to get the valve cover off. I was working on my friend's Versys at the time, and was unable to get it out.

But Invader said you CAN get the cover out without disconnecting the cables.

This week, I was doing my own valves and decided to give it a go. Invader is right! You don't need to disconnect the cables. It's a little tricky, but by turning the lower cable away from the cover and working the cover this way and that, it will come out. The clutch cable clip interferes with the throttle cable, but you just have to keep at it until it comes free.

Thanks Invader for teaching an old dog a new trick!

Michael

+1. Now serving humble pie at my place. (Re-checked my valves this week too.)

Canadian Tire has a special on this week: digital caliper and micrometer combo, with plastic cases, for $20, which is 70% off (discontinued item).

[invader]

Originally Posted by Mt. Versuvius

+1. Now serving humble pie at my place. (Re-checked my valves this week too.)

Canadian Tire has a special on this week: digital caliper and micrometer combo, with plastic cases, for $20, which is 70% off (discontinued item).

You mean this set including a standard (not metric) micrometer, shown at $19.98 regular price?

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brows....jsp?locale=en

[invader]

Originally Posted by fasteddiecopeman

These digital calipers
http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-...per-47257.html
regularly go on sale (w/ a coupon) for $9.99, and the coupons are in the back of many car or motorcycle magazines. VERY accurate!

Calipers are not accurate and precise enough.
■Accurate to +/- 0.001" (0.03mm)

You need a micrometer which has 0.0001" or 0.01mm graduations to properly measure valve shims.

[Mt. Versuvius]

Originally Posted by invader

You mean this set including a standard (not metric) micrometer, shown at $19.98 regular price?

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brows....jsp?locale=en

That's the one. Hadn't noticed it wasn't metric. More pie anyone?

[invader]

Originally Posted by Mt. Versuvius

That's the one. Hadn't noticed it wasn't metric. More pie anyone?

It can still be used by multiplying inch mesurements by 25.4.

0.XXXX" X 25.4 = 0.XX...mm

[fasteddiecopeman]

Originally Posted by invader

Calipers are not accurate and precise enough.
■Accurate to +/- 0.001" (0.03mm)

You need a micrometer which has 0.0001" or 0.01mm graduations to properly measure valve shims.

Just went out to the garage to check my caliper. In "inch" it measures to 5/10,000/" (.0005), while in "metric" it measures to 1/100 mm (.00mm). Seems to be accurate enough....

BTW, when I 'did' my valves I took note of which ones I needed, then ordered them. When they came in, I took the caliper with me to confirm the sizes, and discovered that NONE were what I expected!

The mechanic got out his supply of shims and invited me to measure and take EXACTLY the ones I needed, which I did.

Thankfully I had the measurements and had figured out EXACTLY what sizes I needed to get my clearances where I wanted them, so, by going through his supply - I was able to.

IF you go by the 'shim chart', you'll ONLY be in the "ballpark" once you're done.

[olegeezer]

I think I'm going to look into some shims in the .025mm increments for the next time. When I checked mine, less than 3000 m on the bike, one was out of spec and all were tight. I did my best with the tools I had to get them in mid-range. I had to take the cams off twice.
That fellow who suggested to put a rag in the chain tunnel ports, well let's just say he knew what he was talking about. I dropped a feeler gauge in there and nearly puked when I heard the sound. I didn't panic( too much), found it hung up beside the cam chain and fished her out with a magnet. I don't get much luckier than that, but I'll take it.

[Hardware]

Originally Posted by invader

It can still be used by multiplying inch mesurements by 25.4...

I did that for a while... but then I Multiplied by Time Wasted & Divided by My Remaining Life Expectancy and concluded that metric tools would definitely be worth the Return On Investment.

Speaking of which; Do you have a source (preferably in the U.S.) for a good set of metric feeler gauges? The ones I bought last year (KD) suck! Not only did they omit some key sizes (forcing the use of 3 or more blades at a time) but many of them were well off their printed spec!?!

Thanks
.

[invader]

Originally Posted by Hardware

I did that for a while... but then I Multiplied by Time Wasted & Divided by My Remaining Life Expectancy and concluded that metric tools would definitely be worth the Return On Investment.

Speaking of which; Do you have a source (preferably in the U.S.) for a good set of metric feeler gauges? The ones I bought last year (KD) suck! Not only did they omit some key sizes (forcing the use of 3 or more blades at a time) but many of them were well off their printed spec!?!

Thanks
.

Mac Tools MG030 http://www.mactools.com/shoponline/p...ric-gauge.aspx

Matco Tools MG25 http://www.matcotools.com/catalog/pr...-METRIC-GAUGE/

A&E KaStar 343A http://www.aetools.com/products/gaug...ric-gauge.html
http://etoolpros.com/automotive-tools/KAS-343A.html
http://www.staniosindustrial.com/Kas..._p/48a343a.htm

Gray Tools FG30 http://www.graytools.com/toolcatalog...ow=1&pageNum=1

[Hardware]

Thanks Invader!

I nominate you the Versys Forum MVR (Most Valuable Resource)
.

[fasteddiecopeman]

Originally Posted by Hardware

Thanks Invader!

I nominate you the Versys Forum MVR (Most Valuable Resource)
.

...and I SECOND that nomination!

[redline]

+3, agree. Good Job Invader....
Here's my rendition of the "check / adjustment". Just turned 15K. Of course, had to check them. EVERYONE needs to know these valves tighten over time, and if left unchecked, can cost you a bundle....this is worth repeating. ALL of them but one exhaust and one intake were just-out-of-spec. The remaining two were JUST in-spec. Re-shimmed as required, all now at the middle to high end. I question just how close they are {to minimum spec} when they are assembled. I "think" the makers do not want a mechanically loud bike. After all, who wants to hear a paint shaker when you lay down your hard-earned coin for a new ride?
My local Dealer is set-up to swap shims, and does so free of charge. He even gave me 6 extras just in case my measurements weren't accurate. One thing I wanted to mention were the cam lobes. There is absolutely NO wear. Not even a bucket "track". Bearing surfaces are as new. I attribute this to AMSOIL and proves once again how good these lubes are.
Ok, so the complaints..
It is straightforward, but time consuming. Plan on an entire day, and as others have suggested, take your time. Rushing will only lead to mistakes. Take pictures before each stage of dis-assembly so you can refer to them later. I did not find the need for coating the bearing surfaces and cam lobes with moly....there was plenty of oil there to do the trick. I feel this is for newly rebuilt and "dry" motors.
About the sprocket / chain alignment. When things are loose, it can fool you into a "false" adjustment. The manual stated to pre-load the exhaust side {when installing the chain}, but makes no mention that you NEED to do it {for proper alignment}. I lined things up perfectly, and then when the tensioner was installed, the sprockets were off by one tooth. No biggy, remove the cam caps, re-position and check [turn motor over twice] again, then one more time.
Stuff rags EVERYWHERE that something can fall into. This includes the air box breather hole....left agape when you pull off the air box.
The biggest PITA was the valve cover rubber gasket. I tried with it on the head, then on the cover.....a few times. After I got hot and beat the dog {JK}, I walked away for a few then did it again. It worked and I settled with it on the head. Used a skim coat of black hi-temp RTV to keep things in place, and when I do it again, I will allow it to tack dry so it doesn't move.
I also came VERY close to cutting off the UNUSED tab that sits on the right side just above the cover. It DOES get it the way, and the cover might come out the right side if it wasn't there. I just may do it next time.
Installed new plugs and cleaned the air filter while I was there. My local dealer says he has not adjusted ONE Ninja 650, ER6N, or a VERSYS yet, so he is awaiting my feedback. I have to tell you, even if you've done a few of these, a shop is going to charge 4-6 hours. It is time-consuming. Did I already say that?
OH.... turned over twice, fired, fast idle, warm up, then settled into a nice idle. Can hear a "little" {very little} valve noise....but as they say......."slappy valves are happy valves".

[QtrLitre]

Since a few of you have done. Do any of you gents have a list of everything you need to do the valve adjustment, including the part numbers of the seals and gaskets that have to be replaced? I am on the fence about giving this a go. I do everything myself but i would gladly pay my kawi dealer to do this from what i have read so far.

[Mt. Versuvius]

Unless you mangle them taking the cover off, you can re-use the gaskets. If you do need to replace them then you need the valve cover gasket and two spark plug gaskets (see the shop manual pdf in the technical forum for part numbers). The manual says to use gasket silicone but I found it wasn't needed. You might want to change your spark plugs while you have it all torn down.

[angst]

Originally Posted by olegeezer

When removing the valve cover the manual instructs us to remove the throttle cables from the pulley at the throttle body. I want to know if its possible to work the valve cover off without doing this. I just hate to mess with the throttle cables unless its the only way. Has anyone managed to get to the valve check without doing this? Or should I just bite the billet and do what the manual says?? I've nearly reached my mechanical limits with just taking all the S**t off the bike to get to the cover.
Thanks to all you valve experts out thar.....

I have done it on my '08, but it does take some finagleing to get it worked out. Put still very doable.

[olegeezer]

Originally Posted by invader

It was pretty easy. I just swung them out of the way. You can open the clutch cable retainer clip on the valve cover. Valve cover is a bit tight to carefully pull it out to the left, no matter what you do, and throttle cables are not in the way at all. Valve cover gasket can be left on top of head.

I'm in the process of my second valve check and thanks Invader, I got the valve cover off to the left without removing the throttle cables from the pulley this time. I did remove the metal bracket for the plastic clutch cable holder (8mm bolt) but it amazed me by how easy it came out to the left!! Maybe I'll get lucky this time and all will be in spec??

[ScottyNeal]

I recently did a valve check (at 15,000 miles) on my 09 V, and removed the valve cover to the left fairly easily. The trick was to disconnect the "round" wheel throttle-cable-assembly held in place by two phillips-head screws on the right hand side. I think that's what Invader was talking about last year. Once the assembly is loose, it can be moved a bit out of the way, then the valve cover can be lifted up over the timing gear and chain and removed to the left.

All my valves were in spec at 15,000 miles.