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Versys / Ninja 650 Interchangable?

28K views 30 replies 11 participants last post by  fasteddiecopeman 
#1 ·
Question for you Kawasaki experts out there: How much of the engine/electrical components are interchangable from the Versys to the Ninja 650? The reason I ask is because I have a Versys frame and wheels that I want to turn into a streetfighter. I'm wondering if I bought a crashed Ninja 650 could I take all the parts and put it into the Versys?

Thanks.
 
#3 ·
I raced a Ninja 650R for two years. I used a Versys engine for spares. Engine wise, the only difference is the head height (lower compression), cams, ignition trigger. The heads are entirely swappable. I swapped heads and cams searching for different power curves. All the engine mounts are the same. You can do a direct swap from frame to frame. If you get the Power Commander V with ignition tune (same part # for Versys and Ninja), you can set ignition timing the same between the two engines with retard/advance.

If you are making a street fighter, I'd use the Versys head and cams and keep the lower RPM torque.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Versys head is different (more volume) for lower compression. Versys inlet and exhaust cam lobes have less duration and lift than the 650R's... Versys inlet camshaft is however identical to 650R's exhaust camshaft All other engine components are the same.

Ninja 650R/ER6:
Inlet- open 31° BTDC................Exhaust- open 50° BBDC
close 61° ABDC........................close 30° ATDC
duration 272°..........................duration 260°
cam height 36.6 +/- 0.057 mm... cam height 35.9 +/- 0.057 mm

Versys:
Inlet- open 25° BTDC................Exhaust- open 47° BBDC
close 54° ABDC........................close 25° ATDC
duration 260°..........................duration 252°
cam height 35.9 +/- 0.057 mm... cam height 35.4 +/- 0.057 mm

ECU is also mapped differently. Versys ignition timing ranges from 10° BTDC @ 1300 rpm, to 33° BTDC @ 5000+ rpm.
650R: From 10° BTDC @ 1300 rpm, to 35° BTDC @ 4800+ rpm.

Versys also has a crossover tube in exhaust header, before collector.

Cylinder base gasket is about 0.25 mm thick. Head gasket is a 3-layer steel, about 0.75 mm thick... You can remove the center layer of the head gasket, using copper head gasket sealer to seal the outer layers together. Such is BRP's prefered method, instead of removing base gasket which also lowers any wear ridge at top of stroke.

Gary "BRP"
http://www.blueridgeperformance.net/

"We do not use high compression pistons. JE (forged) pistons weigh more than stock (cast aluminum) pistons. Heavier parts move slower. We run stock pistons, with a milled head and cylinder. Depending on the track, we use different combos of Versys and 650R cams. (A cheap route, is to install a Versys intake cam in your 650R, and put the 650R intake cam in the exhaust.) We have billet cams ready to grind, but until we start getting some requests, they will stay in the unground form. Proper porting & compression nets the biggest gains.
Stock rods stretch a lot faster. Not a big problem, until you start getting over 75 hp. My engine builder is currently building some flat track engines. One is a 700cc, the other 750 using stock bore/rod length, with stroked crank and custom built pistons, with pin location moved. Those should be in the 90+ hp range."
 
#5 ·
Versys head is different (more volume) for lower compression. Versys inlet and exhaust cam lobes have less duration and lift than the 650R's... Versys inlet camshaft is however identical to 650R's exhaust camshaft.

Ninja 650R/ER6:
Inlet- open 31° BTDC................Exhaust- open 50° BBDC
close 61° ABDC........................close 30° ATDC
duration 272°..........................duration 260°
cam height 36.6 +/- 0.057 mm... cam height 35.9 +/- 0.057 mm

Versys:
Inlet- open 25° BTDC................Exhaust- open 47° BBDC
close 54° ABDC........................close 25° ATDC
duration 260°..........................duration 252°
cam height 35.9 +/- 0.057 mm... cam height 35.4 +/- 0.057 mm

ECU is also mapped differently. Versys ignition timing ranges from 10° BTDC @ 1300 rpm, to 33° BTDC @ 5000+ rpm.
ER-6: From 10° BTDC @ 1300 rpm, to 35° BTDC @ 4800+ rpm.

Versys also has a crossover tube in exhaust header, before collector.

Cylinder base gasket is about 0.25 mm thick. Head gasket is a 3-layer steel, about 0.75 mm thick... You can remove the center layer of the head gasket, using copper head gasket sealer to seal the outer layers together. Such is BRP's prefered method, instead of removing base gasket, alrhough lowering the cylinder also lowers any wear ridge at top of stroke.

Gary "BRP"
http://www.blueridgeperformance.net/

"We do not use high compression pistons. JE pistons weigh more than stock. Heavier parts move slower. We run stock pistons, with a milled head and cylinder. Depending on the track, we use different combos of Versys and 650R cams. (A cheap route, is to install a Versys intake cam in your 650R, and put the 650R intake cam in the exhaust.) We have billet cams ready to grind, but until we start getting some requests, they will stay in the unground form. Proper porting & compression nets the biggest gains.
Stock rods stretch a lot faster. Not a big problem, until you start getting over 75 hp. My engine builder is currently building some flat track engines. One is a 700cc, the other 750 using stock bore/rod length, with stroked crank and custom built pistons, with pin location moved. Those should be in the 90+ hp range."

Good info Invader !!!

LOP
 
#8 ·
It did well enough to take two championships. I ported my head, milled the cylinder and head some. I ran the Versys intake cams and Ninja exhaust cams in different degrees and combinations. I had great midrange acceleration. Ultimately, its still easier to build an SV motor than an EX motor. There's just a lot more R&D in the SV. I chose the Ninja because I liked the chassis setup. The balance and distribution suited my riding style and preferences. I also got a smokin' deal on it, which never hurts. The Versys/Ninja motor's biggest weakness are the connecting rods. You need new rods at the end of every season if you don't want to buy aftermart race rods. The other huge weakness is the radiator. On the Ninja, its barely good enough for track day speeds, let alone higher compressions, and racing. I had an oversized rad built for racing.

The airboxes are the same.
 

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#10 ·
One of the things that attracted me to the Versys was the multi-platform approach. It should mean good parts availability (and cheaper parts) for a long time.
To the OP; sounds like you can stuff an engine from a crashed Ninja (maybe a 2012, better mid-range than the earlier ones) into your rolling chassis. Say, how did you end up with a Versys frame and wheels with no engine?
 
#11 ·
The front wheel and discs are 08 EX650R. Forks and brakes are 06 ZX6R mounted in 04 ZX6R triples. In current form, it weighs 372lbs with 1.5gal in the tank. Unfortunately, I suffered a severe crash at the end of my last season and opted to sell the bike. I wanted to install a Versys swingarm eventually, but was always a day late on bidding. I sold the bike to a friend, so I still have access to it. I like building bikes as much as racing them. I'm trying to free up some time to make me a cheater Versys of my 2008 V.
 

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#13 ·
Okay I am looking at that air scoop above the radiator... Is that stock on the 650r?

I also noticed your radiator is pretty beat up. Does that affect the performance at all? I have a radiator guard on my sv650. Not sure if it was really worth the $75 bucks haha.


Sent from my iPhone using Motorcycle.com Free App
 
#15 ·
The scoop gets a lot of attention.

Invader is correct. (Did you follow my antics on BRP's site?) The air scoop feeds air into the airbox via two ducting tubes. I lowered the radiator a little to accomodate it. No, its not RAM, but rather a way to direct cold air from above the radiator, rather than hot air from behind the radiator and off the top of the engine. Was it beneficial? Yes, of course. Most always is.

The radiator isn't as perfect as the day it was born off an FZR600, but cosmetics were the least of my priorities regarding the performance of the radiator. It was straight and flowed as it should. Mounts were welded on and the bottom inlet was relocated. The motor went from operating in the boil over zone to normal and acceptable operating temps.
 
#17 ·
The crash was easier on the bike than me. $70.00 and it was fixed back up to pre-crash condition. The rider (me) unfortunately was not. I messed up my left shoulder pretty good. Its taken a year, but I'm almost to pre-crash physical condition. I still enjoy track riding, but the incident took a lot out of my racing motivation for the time being.
 

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#19 · (Edited)
No... It's only the ECU's low-mid range fue/ignitionl map that was slightly improved. It now has a bit less peak torque (maybe), but the same peak power and rpm.

"The 2012 engine offers more low-mid range torque for more fun and greater usability in everyday riding situations, while maintaining the smooth, high-revving character of its predecessor."

2011: Maximum Power 53 kW {72.1 PS} @ 8,500 rpm
Maximum Torque 66 N.m {6.7 kgf.m} @ 7,000 rpm

2012: Maximum Power 53 kW {72.1 PS} / 8,500 rpm
Maximum Torque 64 N.m {6.5 kgf.m} / 7,000 rpm
 
#23 · (Edited)
That's great Eddie! That's what we all hope for-- long term reliability.

I have read of other people having trouble with throttle position sensor on the site (specifically--very recently an issue with Baileyman?-- IIRC--~13k mi. failure), and also with other similar Kawasaki models (650 Ninja, etc.).

As for throttle body interchangability, I ran across this post where interchange was successful (650 Ninja to ER6-N).

http://www.riderforums.com/ninja-65...-ninja-650r-throttle-body-fit-2006-er-6n.html

Long term, it will be helpful for all of us to know what electrical parts interchange, as there are MANY 650 Ninjas out there (would increase the chance of sourcing a used part, if in need).

I'd much rather pay ~$100 for a low mile used throttle body (if in need of said part) from a 650 Ninja, than have to buy a new throttle body from OEM for ~$450!! The same goes for other electrical components.

Just looking for Versys owners with experience or insight, regarding this topic.
 
#25 · (Edited)
*disclaimer: I mean no disrespect!*

Topic Closed? Ok, feel free to buy a new TB if yours fails.

Cheap?$450 for this repair...not cheap to me. Dependable? Tell that to the guys who had to replace them (with relatively low miles).

You may not be interested in saving hundreds, if yours fails, but others may be.

Just as I shared interchangeable success (Ninja to ER), listed in my post above, I would encourage you guys to do the same (if/when you are aware). As more of these bikes are sold, and as more miles are put on them, there will be more failures and possible opportunities to replace with the abundant source of used 650 Ninja parts.

The jury is out. But, I'm still not aware of the verdict.

Thanks in advance for any supportive information, regarding this potential money saver.
 
#27 ·
Fair enough, and thank you!

Let's not close the topic until we have solid information- a firm yes or no.

The Ninja to ER interchange, I shared, supplies potential and hope for the Versys. Personally, I prefer a $100 repair over a $450 repair, any day of the week.

Thank you Eli Whitney!
:clap:
 
#29 · (Edited)

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