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Burnt Stator / Versys 650 / Stator Testing/ Stator Failure Series Regulator

129K views 601 replies 90 participants last post by  Gerinemo 
#1 ·
I checked the manual before posting, not very informative if you don't know anything about it. The most accurate test is what you have already done, and it sounds like you have shorted turns, however it wouldn't hurt to try this again. What you need to realize is this is a 3 phase power source, the white wires need to be identified as white A, white B and white C. , make a drawing of the quick connector and designate on the drawing, and mark the readings down in accordance to your drawing.Measure A to B , B to C and C to A. You should have three readings all very close, like within a couple volts, and as a side note, idle RPM is fine since this is the AC output open circuit voltage, manual says something like 42 volts at 4000 rpm. If one reading is considerably lower then the stator is screwed, you can test this with a ohm meter with the motor off, check the same three and mark down the ohm readings, IMO this is a very inaccurate test. The manual says 0.18 to 0.27 ohms, most test leads of meters are greater than this, only advantage would be to prove that it is open.
:cheers:
 
#130 ·
I am not a fan of battery tenders, if you have a really good and reliable one , I would be interested in the make and what you paid for it.:goodidea:

To my knowledge, CTEK chargers are very good, if not the best.
I use this one for the Versys for about a year.
My '07. stock battery was getting weak and it struggled to fire up after a few days of sitting.
Now I keep it on the charger almost all the time and bike starts like dynamite (even after a 4-5 days off the charger).

Here's some reading about the chargers:
http://www.webbikeworld.com/r3/motorcycle-battery-charger/ctek-battery-chargers.htm


As far as the stators go, I plan to thoroughly check my Versys this spring for any sings of electrical fault. At about 25,000km (and one drop on the stator cover) it's in the risk zone.


Thank you everybody for contributing and for the dose of paranoia. ;)
 
#131 ·
Your run of the mill Deltran Battery Tender Plus. 1.25A till it senses to relax. As far as reliabiliy, it did fail a few years back. I sent it back to Deltran, and they sent me a new one free of charge. Other than that I've been happy w/it. I usually get around that 5yr life out of my batteries, so I guess I'm not doing anything wrong.

Stators, now that's another story.

Currently, I have 4 motorcycles, a generator, and a booster pack on Battery Tenders. I've never had a problem with any of them, and the oldest I bought 20 odd years ago. If a unit isn't being used or ridden, it's on the tender 24/7.
 
#132 ·
The original Yuasa battery does have AGM seperators...The desulfator I got for $26 works great. It shows battery voltage, then starts desufating until battery voltage drops to about 11.5V. It also works well while charging.
I tried searching your posts, recall reading your post, if you don't mind, something I am interested in.
:interesting:
:thanx:
 
#133 ·
I tried searching your posts, recall reading your post, if you don't mind, something I am interested in.
:interesting:
:thanx:
Desulfator? Now $18.11 total with $8 coupon.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Auto...ry-reviver-battery-rejuverator/609187481.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/shipping-charge-balance/316234_577706282.html

Many of the same are sold on Ebay for at least twice as much, and with good feedback.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Battery-Des...Parts_Accessories&hash=item231e8c8b16&vxp=mtr

Or you can get a nice automatic 1.5A charger/desulfator... $41.33 with $8 coupon. (Confirm minimal shipping cost via Singapore Post with seller)

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/12V-...Vehicle-Battery-Charger-of-NPT/480896058.html

Or 0.6A for $49.99 http://www.ebay.com/itm/TECMATE-OPT...Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e759d3f18&vxp=mtr
 
#134 ·
OK, I finally received my Compufire R/R. Upon inspecting the wiring harness on it, I noticed that all wires are one to two gauges heavier than the harness on the bike.

Also the positive and negative wires are long enough to go around the solar system.

So this being the case, I'm inclined to completely bypass the bikes original loom, because the bikes wires prolly has much more impedance w/it's thinner AWG wires and connectors.

So I'll run both pos ans neg wires [as is, or shortened] up to the battery posts and use the supplied 40Amp fuse and holder.

For the 3 stator leads I'll use some of this to make a direct custom harness from the stator to the R/R.




Can anyone here give me a reason why this would not work?

Clearly it won't be wired thru the starter relay or the 30 Amp fuse next to it.

This is how it was designed to be wired if you purchased the complete Compufire charging system.
 
#135 ·
Are you planning on taping up the old regulator plug? The alternator connection plug is supplied by some re-builders, like RM Stator, if you had that you could leave all the old wiring intact, and make a short 3 phase connection to the regulator from the alternator. I would bring the ground up to the frame ground by the cpu, I would also bring the positive up like you suggested, to a fuse holder, then the battery.

Too bad I didn't know about the regulator discharge current before I installed it, I would have brought the positive wire up with the ground ( both wires are just long enough to reach behind the CPU) and left the old wiring intact. I personally would still hook up a relay, but in your case to the positive.

:goodluck:
 
#136 ·
Great Idea for the dead end plug. I'll try to get one ASAP.

I planned on using the three strand wire in the pic above to make the independent 3 phase stator loom. Each wire is the same 14 AWG as the 3 in the Weatherpack and it's wrapped in a flexible shield designed for harsh condition environments.

A buddy gave me a 1/2 doz of the the Weatherpack terminals and the small ribbed O-rings that will complete the Weatherpack supplied w/the R/R.

What concerns me is what will the consequence of bypassing the orig connection of the brown wire to the ign sw. and the pos wire to the starter relay.

I'm only assuming that their relationship is parallel. But I'm not very electrical savvy and have cold feet.

If you look at the head/taillight circuit ,you'll see where the the charging circuit interconnects also.

Can anyone here see any issues w/the way I plan on installing it ?

This thread on ADV also has raised my concern.....
 
#139 ·
30 Amp fuse it is.

The drawing on the ADV thread is not for our Versys. I'm not sure what it belongs to. I hope I didn't lead you down a wrong path.

Can you put up a picture of our charging sys schematic?

I don't have the software to convert it to a pdf file and post it here.

BTW, I'm still confused.
 
#140 ·
30 Amp fuse it is.

The drawing on the ADV thread is not for our Versys. I'm not sure what it belongs to. I hope I didn't lead you down a wrong path.

Can you put up a picture of our charging sys schematic?

I don't have the software to convert it to a pdf file and post it here.

BTW, I'm still confused.
Well I looked at the drawing and that drawing is essentially the Versys headlight relay circuit.

Not many will admit confusion.

I will try and break it down.

First, between the alternator and regulator there is actually a single tap in the original harness that picks off one of the three phases, this goes to the headlight relay through a blocking / rectification diode,then coil circuit of the headlight relay, it's only purpose is to pull on the headlight once the motor is running fast enough to produce 12 volts. Once the headlight comes on, there is a latch circuit from the 12 VDC battery, this keeps the headlight on even if you stalled the motor. So you have two choices, one is to go to the very end of the connector that goes to your old regulator and either cut the three wires that come from your alternator and attach them to your new regulator, or what I did, tap the three phase wires from the alternator to the new regulator ( the wire from the Compufire is just long enough to reach-----it is a challenge as the harness is very close to the rear brake switch)

Since I have already installed one and reviewed my install, this is what I would do if I replaced my bike with yours;

#1 take the side cover off located above the alternator, exposing the alternator 3 phase wire connector.
#2 strip about a 1/4 inch of insulation off each of the white wires in a staggered formation , then solder the three wires from the new regulator, tape with rubber tape or silicone seal caulking. An alternate method would be to use 10 gauge insulated but splices, wire from the alternator and wire from regulator in bottom of but splice, then double over the wire going to the connector, this end goes into top of but splice, do the same for all three----------if you knew which wire pulls on the headlight relay you would only need to do one wire ( I need to test this, what should happen is if you connected positive to one of the black 3 phase wires, the headlight relay should pull in, that is with the alternator stator disconnected-----I need to prove this-not tonight)
#3 run both positive and negative output wires their full length, connect negative to frame ground, positive to a 30 amp weatherproof fuse holder, from the fuse holder go direct to battery OR connect to 12 volt relay, from relay connect to battery. Use your tail light wire to drive the relay, connect other side of relay coil to existing frame ground.
#4 rubber tape original plug to old regulator----gives the option of connecting OEM regulator when you sell the bike

I guess if there is enough interest I could take some pictures and post them.

:blah::blah:
 
#163 ·
Well I looked at the drawing and that drawing is essentially the Versys headlight relay circuit.

One Wizard, this is from your posting #167 (my question follows):

Since I have already installed one and reviewed my install, this is what I would do if I replaced my bike with yours;

#1 take the side cover off located above the alternator, exposing the alternator 3 phase wire connector.
#2 strip about a 1/4 inch of insulation off each of the white wires in a staggered formation , then solder the three wires from the new regulator, tape with rubber tape or silicone seal caulking. An alternate method would be to use 10 gauge insulated but splices, wire from the alternator and wire from regulator in bottom of but splice, then double over the wire going to the connector, this end goes into top of but splice, do the same for all three----------if you knew which wire pulls on the headlight relay you would only need to do one wire ( I need to test this, what should happen is if you connected positive to one of the black 3 phase wires, the headlight relay should pull in, that is with the alternator stator disconnected-----I need to prove this-not tonight)
#3 run both positive and negative output wires their full length, connect negative to frame ground, positive to a 30 amp weatherproof fuse holder, from the fuse holder go direct to battery OR connect to 12 volt relay, from relay connect to battery. Use your tail light wire to drive the relay, connect other side of relay coil to existing frame ground.
#4 rubber tape original plug to old regulator----gives the option of connecting OEM regulator when you sell the bike

I did #1, 2, 3, 4 as above, using wire similar to what Mtn. Man did, from the stator wires to the R/R center wires, leaving old wiring intact. Neg from R/R went to frame ground. Pos from R/R went to 30A fused wire to battery pos terminal. I will control parasitic draw by pulling fuse vs installing another relay on my bike.

The question is: no one has mentioned whether it's important to connect particular wires from the stator to the center 3 R/R wires. Does it matter - if so how should it be done? Or just connect the 3 wires - no particular order?

Thanks for your help - you have way more electronics expertise than I do.
 
#141 ·
Buy all means, post up pics and diagrams. I'd be grateful.

What would happen if the headlight relay tap was simply left out of the install?

I just received my rewound stator today. It came with enough wire length from the windings to possibly reach the R/R

Apx 18" length from the rubber grommet to the end.
 
#142 ·
What would happen if the headlight relay tap was simply left out of the install?

I just received my rewound stator today. It came with enough wire length from the windings to possibly reach the R/R

Apx 18" length from the rubber grommet to the end.
Sorry for asking about the headlight relay tap. You were very clear in saying that if I bypassed it, I would need to find another means to energize my headlamp.

I'm now prolly going to use the original 3 wires from the stator to the new R/R Weatherpack as you did.


It was my plan to go to a larger AVG wire size and shorter path w/less connectors from the stator to the 3 terminal plug on the Compufire R/R to decrease resistance, but now I found this thread on ADV and might abandon the idea.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18341116&postcount=97

The issue comes up on page 6 and ends on page 7 I think. I'd be interested in any comments.

What I'm taking from this is, since AC current travels w/ less resistance, it's pointless to bother making the path any easier. What confuses me is why would decreasing the resistance raise the temperature of the stator?

Please comment. I'd love a different explanation that I may understand better.
 
#143 ·
Sorry for asking about the headlight relay tap. You were very clear in saying that if I bypassed it, I would need to find another means to energize my headlamp.

I'm now prolly going to use the original 3 wires from the stator to the new R/R Weatherpack as you did.


It was my plan to go to a larger AVG wire size and shorter path w/less connectors from the stator to the 3 terminal plug on the Compufire R/R to decrease resistance, but now I found this thread on ADV and might abandon the idea.

Advrider gone as of 2018, redundant and not conforming to rules of forum

ADV rider refers to OEM regulator-----I won't comment on the write up except to say some of the info is reversed and jumbled, i.e. refers to voltage when it should be current.

I need to know what you were planning to do as far as connecting to the new regulator 3 phase input from the rewound regulator, are you crimping / but splice / soldering or using a connector-------is there a connector on the rewound regulator?

Once I know what if anything is mounted on the stator wiring, I will then give you a very simple set up-------FYI I did a very difficult connection which I wouldn't do again, I spliced off the original harness ( 3 phase input and positive output) about 2 inches from the plug, only thing I brought up was the ground from the Compufire. When I was done I tywraped and taped everything, this was hard because the harness is on the brake pedal side but the regulator is on the opposite side, swing arm travel was possible to hit connection.

I will check into a solution for the headlight tomorrow ( I have a solution depending on your answer to the stator wiring), one other thing, do you have a motorcycle charger, and or 14 or 16 ga.wiring, 3 ft long?

:feedback:
 
#144 ·
ADV rider refers to OEM regulator-----I won't comment on the write up except to say some of the info is reversed and jumbled, i.e. refers to voltage when it should be current.
What I took from that ADV thread was because of how efficient AC travels there is no benefit or gain for me to bypass the original AC wiring. This would solve worrying about any issues of a headlight energizing feed. If in fact the poster [Joel Weisman] is correct. I don't have the knowledge to disprove him or agree.

How I go about moving forward on this install is pivotal on if this is true or not.
 
#145 ·
Simple test to find headlight relay wire.

Unplug the connector from the stator, about 18 inches from stator, the male end that continues into the main harness, is your test point.

I used my cheap 1 amp motorcycle charger, connect the negative to frame ground , use a short piece of copper wire in the positive alligator of my charger. Two methods, first with no ignition key, if you look at the male plug, one spade is 90' from the other two, going clockwise from the 90' one, the very next spade terminal is my headlight wire. To prove it, touch this one with the positive from the charger, you will hear a click of the relay and also see a very light spark. Next step is to put the key in and turn key to run position, starting bike is NOT REQUIRED, touch same terminal same way and you will see headlight come on and stay on.

Once I have the answer on your stator wiring I can then give you a solution.

As a suggestion, if you have the female plug from the stator, attached to the stator wires, I would suggest you strip insulation about 1 inch below plug, in a staggered formation ( wire #1 is one inch from plug; #2 is 2 inches and #3 is 3 inches from plug)---------- strip about a 1/2 inch of insulation from the end of your 3 conductor wire you showed previously, leave the wire about a foot or longer. Use three wire nuts , connect the 3 conductor wire to the Compufire 3 phase input wires.

Tape the connections up out of the way and out of sight, this will give you the best connection, cheapest, and easily taken apart for testing. If you decide to go back to OEM, cut the splices off the harness plug and tape, then plug in the original plug to the regulator.

As before, the positive and ground should be brought up and do not shorten wire, your call if you use a relay or switch .

:feedback:
 
#146 · (Edited)
What I took from that ADV thread was because of how efficient AC travels there is no benefit or gain for me to bypass the original AC wiring. This would solve worrying about any issues of a headlight energizing feed. If in fact the poster [Joel Weisman] is correct. I don't have the knowledge to disprove him or agree.

How I go about moving forward on this install is pivotal on if this is true or not.
I am trying to explain the simplest and most reliable install for you, I can tell you, the shortest path and the least connections is the most reliable. If I sold my bike and bought a second Versys, along with another Compufire regulator, I would wire it exactly as I said in post # 172. It would have cut my install time in half, plus I wouldn't have needed to worry if the heat sink touched the frame, as I am switching the ground through a relay, since I cut the mile long positive wire and spliced it into the harness, so only way to stop the .027 ma. drain was to switch the ground wire when the bike was parked.

FYI the wire from compufire is 150'C motor lead wire, superior to anything on the Versys, were possible do not shorten or substitute .

It is a lot easier to debug someone elses work, than to start from scratch. That is what is great about this forum.

If you are worried about ADV rider, like I said, I don't want to comment other than to say it doesn't apply to Compufire, it relates to shunt type regulators.

I considered making my own regulator, I am too busy to get involved with something I can buy off the shelf. If you have any doubt, just PM me.
 
#147 ·
re: Stator failure

Hi there fellow Versysians..... firstly Happy New Year to you all.... I had a stator failure about 10 months ago.... no kinda warning than the starter working slower over a 2 week period - went for a 190 mile country ride (to the township where I grew up back in the early days) and when we stopped the first time all okay, 2nd okay, 3rd okay, then the 4th stop (in the actual township itself)a slight hiccup and then the 5th time no show... battery just died (actually at the Cemetary we stopped to look at - God's honour!) errrr no one around (midday and some 1.5 miles from the township - called Price on Yorke Penisula South Australia)

My friend Lidia, she rang the RAA to get a battery jump (told - needed to wait some 45mins) and just after the call a 4X4 came by (amazing!!! at that time of day on this isolated dirt road - maybe a good Movie plot here - lol) flagged him down and got a jump start and we headed straight back to Adelaide, pronto - bought a new battery ( battery that died in the bike then was orginal - 2008 model bike then with 22ks) and thought that was it - wrong! battery started to loose omfph after 5 days of going to work each day and then checked the system and found the stator was not producing. Bought a new Stator from the States (as it was cheaper by miles!!!) than getting one from Kawasaki ($480 my price, as daughter Sian works there!) and now all is well.... however what I have done now is fitted a voltage regulator (off eBay - being a led globe that runs through 3 colours - red @10V - orange@12V and green@13.5V showing the voltage output) and putting a switch on the dash I can ckeck on occassions where the output is at... worth all the effort. (I put a switch on the voltage indicator because it can get annoying with the colours changing when at idle to full running - if the photo comes out you can see the indicator down on the right side and the switch up on the top left side of the dash - the other switch is for the headlight and soon I'll be fitting a pair of driving lights too... also on the handle bars are 2 drink holders that you'll notice as I use a flip helmet and these work great!!!)

I took the orginal Stator to a local MC Sparky near where I live and he noted that 2 coils were burnt out and one of then was the actual starting coil - he could rebuild mine for $300 - but will do if this if the one from the States dies... he said it was just one of those things... only thing I noticed with the new Stator is that the headlight flairs when from idle to revs... used to it now but not at the time as I had now encured that before... well all the best agian.... thanks regards and Catchya Andreas


(foot note - I recharged up my orginal battery - thought I'd see how it goes - it's still in there today now @ 24.5ks)
 

Attachments

#148 ·
Hi there fellow Versysians..... firstly Happy New Year to you all....
I took the orginal Stator to a local MC Sparky near where I live and he noted that 2 coils were burnt out and one of then was the actual starting coil - he could rebuild mine for $300 - but will do if this if the one from the States dies... he said it was just one of those things... only thing I noticed with the new Stator is that the headlight flairs when from idle to revs... used to it now but not at the time as I had now encured that before... well all the best agian.... thanks regards and Catchya Andreas


(foot note - I recharged up my orginal battery - thought I'd see how it goes - it's still in there today now @ 24.5ks)
Couple things, have you tested the regulator according to the manual? Also not clear about your headlight, shouldn't be any difference from idle to full RPM. It is possible this stator has a different turns ratio, that is higher current at lower voltage, so at idle you may be @ 12 volts or less, with OEM regulator this would be good in that the regulator would be shunting current much less often. I have a Heads up voltage monitor, extremely accurate.

As to rewinding, it has been posted here before, http://www.rmstator.com/Categories.aspx?cc=v1MMYY39808&filter=true

They also post on eBay, shipping will cost almost as much as the stator, but you still save about $100, and this is new.They also post regulators new and used for a lot less, also a connector kit. Too bad shipping to Australia is so much.

Comment about starting coil????????? From what I can remember, the stator has 3 X 6 coils = total of 18 coils, connected in a Y or star 3 phase configuration.

:interesting:
 
#149 ·
Well I had a little bit of time to work on the bike yesterday. I installed the rewound stator, and filled the crankcase w/oil/filter.

I mounted the Compufire on the modified adapter plate that I made a few weeks back.

But here's the rub...........

I mounted it reversed 180 deg so the wires face outboard. This changed everthing. And considering that I'm bypassing the original wiring harness it made even more sense.

Now the 3 AC stator leads reach the R/R leads w/length to spare and instead of cramped access, all the connections are right there near the starter relay and main fuse. The're now out of the way of a moving shock and rear wheel w/the mud and water that would otherwise bombard the wires/connections.

Using a small battery charger as Wizzard suggested, I found the tap to the headlight relay in the
[now capped connector that used to join the stator leads to the OEM harness.
I ran a short extension from it, to the area where the AC wires will splice. I cut the Weatherpack connector off because a direct splice is better than a friction splice. Besides I have enough wire to be able to change these parts out w/o running out of length.

I had to go to the Inlaw's for pork n kraut New Year's dinner so the rest of the install w/have to wait till I get the chance to get back to it.

I feel pretty good about the install, and would not of w/o the coaching from onewizzard, Olegeezer, Invader, and others one this forum and others.
I thank you for your guidance.

When I get a chance I'll take some pics and post them.
 
#150 ·
Now the 3 AC stator leads reach the R/R leads w/length to spare and instead of cramped access, all the connections are right there near the starter relay and main fuse. The're now out of the way of a moving shock and rear wheel w/the mud and water that would otherwise bombard the wires/connections.

Using a small battery charger as Wizzard suggested, I found the tap to the headlight relay in the
[now capped connector that used to join the stator leads to the OEM harness.
I ran a short extension from it, to the area where the AC wires will splice. I cut the Weatherpack connector
off because a direct splice is better than a friction splice. Besides I have enough wire to be able to change these parts out w/o running out of length.

I had to go to the Inlaw's for pork n kraut New Year's dinner so the rest of the install w/have to wait till I get the chance to get back to it.

I feel pretty good about the install, and would not of w/o the coaching from onewizzard, Olegeezer, Invader, and others one this forum and others.
I thank you for your guidance.

When I get a chance I'll take some pics and post them.
Not sure if I am understanding about cutting off the connector, but, if this is the one from the stator, and if you have a couple inches of wire on the connector, you could join all three together then run a single extension down to were you plan on splicing the stator wires, plug the other end back into the OEM harness, only one wire is active as far as the headlight goes, but the other two will go no where.

Like I said, it is a lot easier debugging someone elses work, excellent idea about turning the regulator, so the wire faces out? May need to wait for Pics.

As to splicing , to be honest, I would use Ideal wire nuts http://www.idealindustries.com/products/wire_termination/twist-on/twister.jsp, then tape them, this will allow a simple connection that is easily taken apart. If you are really concerned, first wrap all three with a light wrap of electrical tape, sticky side out, then take a small sandwich zip lock bag, pump a bit of silicone caulking into it , slide that over the joint , twist tie it, once cured you have a waterproof joint. To remove, take a utility knife, cut vertically, the whole assembly will come off ( electrical tape sticky out is to prevent silicone from sticking to wire connectors and wires)

Are you planning on using a relay?

:interesting:
 
#151 ·
Hi there 'onewizard".... what my MC sparky said was the reason for the flairing was that in volume manufacturing when you by them from Internet sites etc.. what they use is a heavy guage wire to quickly make up the windings on each of the poles and it's cheaper to do and quicker to make hence the price to the customer... you'd think that the heavier guage is good - wrong! Carl said they use a much thinner guage copper wire so that they can get more windings on each of the poles (I think there are 5 or 6? around the unit) and when they soak them in the lacquer for a minium of 24 hours, it then creates a better soak and better quality product.... BETTA Bikes located here in Hackam (down south of the City of) Adelaide - South Australia and do most of the all Stator rewindings here in Australia for the Motorcycle dealerships for their customers... They have never had one ever fail or returned and guarantee them for the life of the bike! Carl said to me that if you think we Versysirians are kinda not happy.... they have done HEAPS from the Trium** Triples!!! (so their owners aren't too happy too!) they charge $300 to do up mine and if this one fails that I have now - I'll get it done by them.. just ashame I didn't know that they did them other than panicing and buying off the net because of the price my daughter quoted me..... thanks hope this helps somehow.... catchya.. Andreas
 
#152 ·
Hi there 'onewizard".... catchya.. Andreas
First, unless you know for sure that Kawasaki made a mistake in the number of turns, you don't increase or decrease the turns.

Next, the heavier the gauge the less resistance and less voltage drop = lost energy. You can use different temperature ratings of magnet wire, the higher the temp usually means thicker insulation. I prefer class H (180'C), and heavy , which is the coating thickness( around .0015 to .003 of a inch).

The next thing I use to do was preheat the finished stator, this removes any moisture trapped in the laminations, insulation etc., most rewind shops won't do this because it thins the dip and also cause the solvent to evaporate.

The more professional rewind shops have a vacuum dip tank, and my preference would be a epoxy dip, keep in mind you want the thinnest coat for heat transfer,and strongest coat to prevent the magnet wire from vibrating and breaking down.

A couple things happen when you increase wire size, one , with exactly the same number of turns, the outside turns are going to be further from the core. Second, you reach a point were there isn't enough room to get all the turns onto the pole piece.

You mention smaller wire size, what can be done is wind with as a example a equivalent to a single 10 gauge , would be two 14 gauge wires ( which would be harder than a 14 gauge), several problems come up with this method, say you had 20 turns of the 10 gauge, using the 14 gauge you will have 40 wires, and since you have 20 additional wires, you have added the insulation thickness of the 20, the second problem is when winding two in hand, there is a increased risk of cross overs between turns ( potential spots for shorted turns)
I said it before, if time permits I may try and find out what the output voltage is AC , compared to the actual DC current load and DC voltage output voltage.


As to how long it soaks, isn't as important as how it is wound. I use to preheat for 1 hour at 200'F, then dip it and soak for 1 hour in epoxy varnish, take it out and let it drip for 10 minutes then bake it for I think 6 hours--------been a long time about 35 years, they have some really good magnet wire available now.

$300 , are they saying once they do it , that it will never fail?
Bottom line, were you live it costs almost as much to ship as it does to rewind, so local is good.:goodidea:
 
#153 ·
Ok, the Install is finished. All three AC wires are spliced w/the headlight tap right here.





Everything is shrink wrapped and sheathed in plastic conduit and zipped tied. There are no friction connectors anywhere on the install, just direct splicing.

The Positive wire is now equipped w/a sealed Mertir-pack style fuse holder that is loaded w/a 30 AMP fuse. You can see it on top of the battery. The one that came w/the Compufire was not as nice. It was not waterproof.




The Neg wire is grounded on the other side of the sub frame ground location.




The original connector that connected to the original R/R is sealed off, pulled up into the cavity between the engine and air box and secured.

The 3 termanal connector that originally mated to the stator is cut off and 2 of the 3 wires are terminated w/these......



And the 3rd one is the headlight relay tap. It's extended and routed through a length of Hi temp vacuum line, and then it is covered w/plastic conduit. You can see it the center of the below pic.



Before I spliced any of the Stator leads I measured VAC at A-B, A-C, B-C. At 4000 RPM I measured just uround 48 VAC at each.

With everything completed I measured 14.37 VDC at the battery terminals at high idle. [apx 1500 RPM] I had no time to get a reading at low idle /operating temperature cause I didn't want to open my garage door to warm it up.

I'm happy w/that.

It's late so I'm done for tonight. Tomorrow I'll test for any parasitic draw and post up my findings. If I have any I'll prolly just fuse the ground as I mentioned.

BTW, what is a good "resting voltage" in a cold garage. I won't flinch to replace the battery if needed.
 
#154 ·
Ok, the Install is finished.
First let me say a awesome write up, if you go towards the foot brake side of your bike, just on the other side of your wire strippers, you will find the frame ground, ECU, tail light signal light etc. is connected at this point.

If you remove your ground and put your ammeter in series, you should get around 24 milliamp, if you check at the battery positive it will be around 27 milliamp ( ECU draws around 1 to 3 milliamp, varying over time) at this rate your 10 amp hour battery will be half dead in 7 days or totally dead in 15 days.

My garage is close to 5'C now, battery is going on 6 years, I charge it every two months, for six hours, in the winter, right now it measures 12.25 VDC, been almost a month since last charge ( I have a relay in series with regulator ground).

Your install looks awesome :thumb:
:goodidea:
 
#155 ·
Please Note the update in regards to leakage current in the second photo, updated Dec. 2016 Onewizard



QUOTE=onewizard;225340]First let me say a awesome write up, if you go towards the foot brake side of your bike, just on the other side of your wire strippers, you will find the frame ground, ECU, tail light signal light etc. is connected at this point.
Yes, Every year I take that one apart and scuff it and the steel it contacts w/emery cloth to keep good ground flow. I put it on the opposite side to balance out the universe.



If you remove your ground and put your ammeter in series, you should get around 24 milliamp, if you check at the battery positive it will be around 27 milliamp ( ECU draws around 1 to 3 milliamp, varying over time) at this rate your 10 amp hour battery will be half dead in 7 days or totally dead in 15 days.
I just went down and measured the parasitic draw.

1st w/the R/R fuse out..........



And now w/the fuse in........



As soon as touch the neg batt terminal and the main ground cable w/the meter probes I hear something in the front of the bike energize and the meter spikes to 64.00 MA and then w/in a second it settles to these 2 above readings.

This current /description of something in front, is in actual fact the headlight relay energising through the series regulator, discovered by me in 2015. The changes needed are under Polaris Regulator Install **Onewizard




My garage is close to 5'C now, battery is going on 6 years, I charge it every two months, for six hours, in the winter, right now it measures 12.25 VDC, been almost a month since last charge ( I have a relay in series with regulator ground).

Since I'm going the low tech option for now, and addressing the draw issue w/just pulling the fuse, would it be OK just to control it w/the R/R positive fuse that's already installed?

I can't see a need to put a fuse on the R/R ground if I'm doing the same thing upstream. [so to speak]


Your install looks awesome :thumb:
:goodidea:


It was your guidance that contributed to the success, and I'm thankful for your help.



Now to evaluate the condition of my battery.

The Battery tender has been on since I left it last night. I removed it a few minutes ago and I performed a load test on it w/this [My garage toaster]and it measured somewhere between 9 1/2-10 volts after a 15 second dwell.

But that was might be kinda inconclusive since it was fresh off the charger. Now I'll have to bring it back up and then rest it again to get a more accurate test at a "rested voltage" I'll post up my readings.
 
#156 ·
Yes, I'll post up my readings.
I am kind of glad that I never ever got around to taking pictures of my install, because after my install and all the changes that came later, and as a result of that, coaching your install has produced a far easier and superior install. I really like the two decimal place Greenlee, although all my stuff is either Fluke, Tektronixs, or Simpson.

Pulling the 30 amp solution is the simple fix, I don't have that option because I tied my positive into the OEM harness, once I discovered the problem, I didn't feel like taking everything apart and extending the positive wire ( cut about 2 feet off :<( )

I need to do some digging on load testing, have a post somewhere here. The manual gives a multiplier for your amp hour rating as to load test current, my load tester is a simple one, so I had to modify the test by changing the test time. As soon as I find it I will link or post.

👏 What is your "normal" battery discharge rate?? 3X amp hour rating is 3 x 10 = 30 amp @ 15 seconds, take your actual current draw of load tester and divide that by the 30 amp, take this number and divide it into 15 seconds, this will give you the test time for your load tester.


My plan is to isolate my stator output and use fixed 75 to 100 watt resistors @ about 4 to 6 ohm, measure, the AC voltage @ idle and ac current, measure AC voltage and current@ 4000 to 5000 rpm . The purpose of this is to see how close Kawasaki was on the turns ratio. To explain, the stator and rotor have a total magnetic flux handling available, we will say 340 VA or watts. V is volts A amps, as a example say the output was 340 volts = 1 amp, that would mean the regulator would need to drop more than 90% of the voltage output and have a current limit of 1 amp.The ideal output voltage is that that just maintains the loads @ idle , one option I am looking at is changing the winding to a delta connected stator, which would involve more turns @ a smaller gauge wire, output voltage between idle and 5000 RPM would be much closer than the OEM Y connection.

Again, thanks for the pictures and a very descriptive write up.
:thanx:
 
#158 ·
Quote from Onewizard......One other thing, on a deeply discharged battery, starting the bike and riding it is a sure way to finish off the battery, the alternator doesn't limit the charge current , a proper battery tender or motorcycle charger limits the current to about 1 amp.
Funny you should mention that. When my stator fried I was about an 1 1/2 hrs from home in lower 20'sF and it was dark. I changed out of my heated gear and turned of my heated grips. I put on my back up fleece jacket and pants, and wool socks and winter gloves

A Cop gave me a jump, and off I went. I watched my headlight get dimmer and dimmer. Eventually my inst panel went out, but the bike kept on running all the way to my garage. After i turned it off, for fun I hit the starter button. It didn't even have enough juice to energize the starter relay.
 
#160 ·
#161 ·
outright fails and I have to replace the relay box; not sure I know what de-energizes looks like
Add a little insight here. The headlight relay has two control sources in parallel, one source is the stator AC one phase, the second comes from the power output, through a diode to the relay coil. Once the stator produces enough AC equal to around 10 volts,(this is rectified through a single diode) the relay pulls in, once this relay pulls in and the contacts close, a second circuit with a blocking diode,connected to the output side of the relay contact and also connected to the coil. This circuit is to latch or lock in your headlight relay, one downfall to this circuit is if your regulator craps out , and that ac 1 phase circuit is allowed to run free, it is possible to have 48 VDC or higher on your headlight relay, this relay will burn out if the diode doesn't fail first.
 
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