Listers,
I have used Mobil 1 car oil for years in my Bandit 1200, Yamaha SR500 and KLR650 with great results. In fact, much better shifting in the Bandit (10w-30). Any one tried M1 in their Versys?
Ed

No, but I'm going to. Only have 500 miles on it so far. I don't think you can go wrong with Mobil 1.

If you insist on Mobil 1, use their motorcycle specific 10W40. It's JASO MA certified as recommended, and wet clutch compatible.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil1_Racing_4T_10W-40.aspx

I will be using M1 Supersyn (car oil) as soon as it's sufficiently broken in. That's my choice for all my bikes.

I've been running Mobil 1 15x-50 for 1700 miles now, no problems.

So,..motorcycle specific oil is just hype?

No. There is a definite difference. JASO (Japanese Automotive Standards Organization) developed its own set of tests specifically for motorcycles, resulting in oil formulas with additive packages designed for motorcycle engines which share its oil with the clutch and transmission.
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html
Kawasaki does specify using JASO MA (high friction applications) in the Versys.

Shell Rotella 5W-40 is another good synthetic. It's about $16 a gallon at Wal Mart.
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.My 2 cents is run what you belive is better ,oil is like religion,everyone is right and knows better,second don't take all the hype and internet bs as truth

According to Richard Moore, Staff Engineer at Shell Global Solutions (US) Inc., Westhollow Technology Center, Houston, TX (800-231-6950):

"We recently ran the JASO MA friction test on Rotella T with Triple Protection 15W-40, Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) and our soon to be introduced (within the next 2 months) Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4. All three oils passed the wet clutch friction test. Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) has more than 1.2% ash (JASO MA spec limit) so it can not be classified as JASO MA. However, Rotella T with Triple Protection 15W-40 and our soon to be introduced Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4 do meet JASO MA."

Just make sure it does NOT say ENERGY CONSERVING on the label on the back of the bottle. The bottom half of the circle should be blank.

http://www.dansmc.com/starburst2a.jpg

Oil of grades higher than SAE 30 are not energy conserving rated, but may still contain friction modifiers. Just stick to JASO MA certified oil, as specified.

Read this: http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html

I have used Castrol 10-40 for years in everything,cars trucks,lawn mowers,and all types of motorcycles, from dirt bikes to Sport bikes.I have never had any problems and will continue to use it.Sport Rider magazine did an article a few years ago about a CBR900r with 120,000 miles and the oil used was castrol 10-30. It had lost around 8HP through the years.

There is a definite difference. JASO (Japanese Automotive Standards Organization) developed its own set of tests specifically for motorcycles, resulting in oil formulas with additive packages designed for motorcycle engines which share its oil with the clutch and transmission.
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html


Maybe. They might be better for your bike, but so far, I haven't seen any conclusive test that actually shows there is a difference. That Sport Rider article certainly isn't it. I read it several times, looked at their data and the best conclusion I can make is that they wanted to make a point and used the data that was convenient to show it and ignored the rest.

A few examples:
The motorcycle OEMs felt that lower levels of phosphorous and the introduction of more friction modifiers (aimed at higher fuel economy in cars) was not in the best interest of motorcycle engines. Since phosphorous is an important antiwear component, lower levels could reduce the ability of oil to protect transmission gears, since motorcycles share engine oil with the gearbox.

If you look at their data:
http://images.sportrider.com/tech/146-0310-CarvBike-zoom.gif

There is a difference of about 200 ppm for phosphorous and maybe 50 for zinc (the two anti wear additives of choice). Is that significnat? I don't know, but it doesn't seem to support this theory that there is a huge difference between auto and moto oils in wear protection due to not being JASO MA compliant. Look at the moly content. Higher on some bike specific oils than on the auto ones.

Don't substitute a higher API designation oil like SL, because it will contain less of some additives like phosphorus, and it may contain other additives that will yield higher fuel economy in a car but could cause slippage in your clutch.

Mobil 1 is SM/SL rated. It scores highest on viscosity retention, has a very high base number and a very good additive package (acid neutralizers, anti-wear). The phosphorous content is average, but it's supplemented by a large amount of zinc. The only potential drawback is the moly content. Does that last detail make it unsuitable for use on a motorcycle? Mobil 1 is the oil of choice for many people and I don't remember hearing complaints about slipping clutches.

Four-Ball Wear Test
With an eye toward evaluating oil's ability to lubricate under extreme pressure conditions, we picked a few candidates and ran them through the "Four-Ball Wear Test" (officially designated ASTM D-4172).

This test is used to determine the wear properties of engine oil in sliding contact (such as a piston sliding against a cylinder wall).

The smaller the wear scar, the better the protection.

And here are their results:
http://images.sportrider.com/tech/146-0310-WearTest-zoom.gif

First, where did the Castrol GTX come from? They get to the most important test they are doing (everything else is a simple lab analysis of the oil) and they introduce an oil that wasn't evaluated at all previously?

Now this is the interesting part, this test is very simple, the smaller the scar the better the protection, right? When the GTX score better than the other two, it's inconclusive, but a few ppm of one additive or another make for a "significant" difference? Give me a break.

Tapered Roller Shear Test
We decided to conduct some additional testing aimed at evaluating an oil's ability to withstand the shearing loads present in a motorcycle gearbox (but not in the typical automotive engine). One of the claims made by most motorcycle-specific oil producers is that motorcycles present a different set of conditions than typical cars do, and that therefore you should spend more money to get oil formulated specifically for this environment. The meshing of transmission gears is said to shear or tear oil polymers over time, resulting in the degradation of oil viscosity and severely reducing its performance. As we stated earlier, this may not be so critical if you frequently change your oil. However, if you run longer than standard intervals, this oil property is something to strongly consider.

Alright, now we are getting somewhere. I agree, this is an important test. So what do they choose to compare, a standard auto mineral oil to 3 synthetics...

http://images.sportrider.com/tech/146-0310-ShearTest-zoom.gif

The curious part is that Motul 300V 5W-40 doesn't perform any better than Valvoline 10W-40, even though it's one of those Group V oils - "Motul 300V, however, uses 100 percent ester as its base oil, and is one of the more expensive oils." If they had thought this through, they would have at least compared Mobil 1 to MXT and maybe some of the Castrol products, to see if there was a real difference between automotive and motorcycle oils. Another missed opportunity or maybe they worried that the results wouldn't support their argument?

We did, however, unequivocally answer a few questions. For one, most name-brand motorcycle-specific oils are indeed different than common automotive oils, even within the same brand, debunking a common myth.

Yes, some products are different. What they didn't manage to answer was whether this made a real difference when used in a motorcycle engine...

Back to square one.


Gustavo

The extra additives will certainly not hurt, and there is a good chance they might help. I'll pay the few extra bucks.

Interesting, Gustavo...
"Some motorcycle oils have a much higher phosphorus and zinc level than others, taking the average up close to automotive oil levels. Only six of the 19 motorcycle oils tested use moly at all. Those that do, however, average 298 ppm."
-They don't claim that a few ppm makes a 'significant' difference: "Many of the products contain less than five ppm of moly, which is the threshold measurement on this test (meaning any amount less than five ppm will not be detected). Both Torco oils contain a significant dose of moly, while the Maxum Ultra and Motul 300V Factory contain far less. The Mobil 1 automotive oil contains 92 ppm, while the MX4T motorcycle-specific version has an undetectable amount. Only six of the 19 motorcycle oils we tested use moly at all. Those that do, however, average 298 ppm. Considering that many oils contain five ppm or less, 298 ppm is a significant dose."
"While the four-ball wear test shows that particular automobile and motorcycle-specific oils perform identically, the heat and viscosity shear tests show otherwise."
They could've had a better selection of tested oils, but they do show that most name-brand motorcycle-specific oils are different than common automotive oils, even within the same brand. "Mobil One automotive oil is definitely different than its motorcycle-specific version. The same is true for the three oils provided by Castrol, showing that both companies have different goals when formulating their automotive and motorcycle products."
They do admit that: "Whether they perform better-despite the data we've gathered-is still a matter of opinion."

According to Castrol; "Note: The low friction characteristics of Castrol Edge 0W-40 make it unsuitable for most motorcycles that incorporate wet clutches in combined engine and transmission systems. Castrol’s prime recommendation for this application is Castrol R4 Superbike."
As it's of a grade higher than SAE 30, Castrol's Edge is still not 'Energy Conserving' rated in the 0W-40 weight.
http://www.castroledge.com.au/PDF/variant_factory_edge_0w40.pdf

At any rate, I like using Amsoil's POA group IV synthetic Formula 4-Stroke PowerSports 0W-40 Synthetic (JASO MA) in the V as I did for a long time in a WR426F, and their ASL 5W30 in the car... I get any Amsoil product from http://www.woodsbrosracing.com/amsoil-online-store.htm at 20% off, and end up paying 35% less in Canada.

...I get any Amsoil product...at 20% off, and end up paying 35% less in Canada.

I get it for dealer cost. :D (Guess it helps that I'm a dealer.) I'm still going to run the Rotella in mine due to the cost and convenience. The AMSOIL is a better oil, but as often as I'll be changing it, that won't be much of a factor IMHO.
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If you insist on Mobil 1, use their motorcycle specific 10W40. It's JASO MA certified as recommended, and wet clutch compatible.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil1_Racing_4T_10W-40.aspx

I understand your concern, however, Mobil 1 car oil has worked just fine in my Bandit (OVER 100 HP and NO clutch problems) over LOTS of miles.
Ed

I've got over 6k on my V and the Mobil 1 works great, shifts fine.

I've got over 6k on my V and the Mobil 1 works great, shifts fine.


+1 for the Mobil 1 also with 6k miles and runs like a top. I have used Mobil 1 Car oil in several of my bikes including the KTM 450EXC and never any problems.

Todd

I got two things out of that Sport Rider article.

One, there are some notable differences between oils of the same grade.

Two, those differences are almost completely insignificant if you change your oil on a regular schedule.

I got two things out of that Sport Rider article.

One, there are some notable differences between oils of the same grade.

Two, those differences are almost completely insignificant if you change your oil on a regular schedule.

+1 on the changing oil frequently. Does anyone ever go the 8k miles the manual suggest. My new Suzuki Bandit wants it's oil changed every 4500, and it uses almost twice as much. I normally do oil changes every 3k, or sometimes sooner if the bike has been sitting a while.

Also I might add the new Suzuki Bandit Has 2 ratings for oil one with JASO MA and one just SG/SH 10w40.

Todd

My head hurts after reading all of this:eek:

I just saw this also reading in the Versys Service Manual. (Page 1-9 General information) And I quote:

"API SE, SF or SG
API SH, SJ or SL with JASO MA
SAE 10W-40
2.4 L (2.5 US qt)"

My head hurts after reading all of this:eek:


Don't worry about it. Just pick your favorite 10W-40 and replace it on a regular basis. Your bike will be fine.

Gustavo

I just saw this also reading in the Versys Service Manual. (Page 1-9 General information) And I quote:

"API SE, SF or SG
API SH, SJ or SL with JASO MA
SAE 10W-40
2.4 L (2.5 US qt)"

That's right... Many get by anyway with conventional car oil, although motorcycle specific JASO MA certified oil is available and recommended by manufacturer. You can get Mobil 1's motorcycle JASO MA 10W40 oil at Wal-Mart for a good price as well.

I recently changed my oil after the initial 1000 miles and used the recommended Kawasaki oil from the dealer. What are everyone’s thoughts on going with what Kawasaki recommends?

I just saw this also reading in the Versys Service Manual. (Page 1-9 General information) And I quote:

"API SE, SF or SG
API SH, SJ or SL with JASO MA
SAE 10W-40
2.4 L (2.5 US qt)"


That's right, 10w40 is the preferred all around oil, but further on in the manual is a chart, with different temperature ranges and a few other weights that are OK to use in within their temperature range. 15w50 is good down to 40 degrees Fahrenheit.

yes I iam running mobil 1 10w- 40 in my v for 7000 miles and no problems shifts great its even better than stock oil .Mobil 1 is the best oil on the planet.

Listers,
I have used Mobil 1 car oil for years in my Bandit 1200, Yamaha SR500 and KLR650 with great results. In fact, much better shifting in the Bandit (10w-30). Any one tried M1 in their Versys?
Ed
I've put 40,000 miles on Mobil-1 on my v-twin Honda 1300 - no issues - shifts smoother than with dino oil. Runs as good as ever.

I have the same in my Versys, Put it in at 800 miles when I bought the bike. No issues, shifts and runs smooth and it now has 8300 miles on it.

AVOID USING ANY SYNTHETIC THAT IS LABELED "ENERGY CONSERVING"! NOT GOOD FOR THE WET CLUTCH.

I realize my experience is with a different motorcycle, but I still think this is useful information for this discussion:

My Honda ST1100 ran its first 100,000 miles using Rotella Synthetic (15W50 and 10W40), then the most recent 40,000 miles using Mobil 1 (10W40 and 10W30), both car specific oils.
...With no problems.

Yeah, that’s a statistic sample size of 1, category “anecdotal evidence”, but there it is.

I realize my experience is with a different motorcycle, but I still think this is useful information for this discussion:

My Honda ST1100 ran its first 100,000 miles using Rotella Synthetic (15W50 and 10W40), then the most recent 40,000 miles using Mobil 1 (10W40 and 10W30), both car specific oils.
...With no problems.

Yeah, that’s a statistic sample size of 1, category “anecdotal evidence”, but there it is.


Very good signature material right there...

:D

:clap: Great!! Another oil thread, yeepee! :goodluck:

Listers,
I have used Mobil 1 car oil for years in my Bandit 1200, Yamaha SR500 and KLR650 with great results. In fact, much better shifting in the Bandit (10w-30). Any one tried M1 in their Versys?
Ed

I would highly recommend not using the 10w30. Use atleast 10w40.

5w20, 5w30, 10w30 contain friction modifiers.

If you insist on using M1 I would recommend the 15w50. However after 600 miles it will shear to a mid 30 grade oil.

In my experience the most shear resistent oil by Mobil One is the 20w50 V-twin oil. I still dont feel that it is worth the price however.

If you want to stick with Exxon products their Superflo 20w50 "car oil" is a very robust and shear resistant offering. Delvac 1300 15w40 is also a decent choice. Kudos for you not drinking the kool-aid and thinking "you have" to use a motorcycle oil.

We have been using ams oil, but I think you can use mobile one as well even though it is a wet clutch.

I tried using Mobile 1 graphite once in my dirt bile when I was a kid, Made it about 2 miles before the clutch quit working altogether..... Had to push it home and clean out every ounce of that stuff, disassemble the clutch and hose the plates off with carb cleaner before it would even move again....... So much for just grabbing any old thing off of the shelf..... Do they even still make that stuff ???

Speaking of carb cleaner, a guy I work with was trying to replace a front seal in a Cummins a few months ago and he used either brake, or carb cleaner on the seal wear sleeve, and when he couldn't get the sleeve off he decided to heat it up a little with his micro torch and BOOM, big flash, mushroom cloud, singed hair, and oil everywhere, so be careful with that stuff...... Sorry, ADD moment

Speaking of carb cleaner, a guy I work with was trying to replace a front seal in a Cummins a few months ago and he used either brake, or carb cleaner on the seal wear sleeve, and when he couldn't get the sleeve off he decided to heat it up a little with his micro torch and BOOM, big flash, mushroom cloud, singed hair, and oil everywhere, so be careful with that stuff...... Sorry, ADD moment

If it had been brake cleaner your friend would likely have been dead.

http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

Oh, and I use car oils.
Castrol GTX and Valvoline synthetic, whatever I can find on sale.
As long as it doesn't say it has friction reducing additives on the back I'm not real worried about it.

So much effort for oil.

If you're a crusty maintenance vet, you know what you like and nobody is going to change your mind.

If you're new to doing your own oil changes, pick something you're comfortable and use it.

IF, and that's a big if, you have clutch slip; you can remove the clutch plates and either replace them or soak them in regular oil and replace them. It's about a 2 hour job on my Suzuki including adjusting the slipper action (not on the Versys).