Have any of you had your bikes dyno'd after changing the silencer ?

Was the air / fuel ratio still within spec ?

Just concerned about the bike running too lean with pipe changed .

Shawn,
there has been a couple of posts that address this issue. I posted something about the Sub throttle plates, and was informed that when stock, the V. runs rich as the revs rise, so I'd imagine you'll be okay. I have an exhaust and no problems.
Aus,
Erik!!!

Thanks Moto

I had a dealer tell me the bike will run leaner with an aftermarket pipe and that I need to have it dyno'd to check it out .

My bike is pulling stronger right through the rev range except the last 1500 rpm . ( it did pull right to limiter with standard pipe )

my bike was running rich uppon startup causing it to has a somewhat hard time starting and just all around out of tune throughout the rpms after a change, highly recomend dyno tuning, worked great and picked up a few ponies!

my bike was running rich uppon startup causing it to has a somewhat hard time starting and just all around out of tune throughout the rpms after a change, highly recomend dyno tuning, worked great and picked up a few ponies!

What did they do to get the bike running properly as you cant change the air fuel ratio on FI , unless you fit a power commander or similar product ?

well yeah you have to have the power commander and thats what they use to load up a new map on your bike, if you make any mods involving fuel or aspiration, drop 300 bucks and just have it tuned, you wont be sorry

I dont want to do a power commander as I will lose my warranty .

Only changes allowed is the pipe , cant even change the airfilter without loosing the warranty . ( this part of the world ) .

Stay with the stock pipes and setup friend . These folks doing exhausts , power commanders and throttle body mods are only get about 1-2 additional horse power .
What they are getting along with that is the need for allot of other adjustments to compensate for the new pipe . If it is racket you want to hear going down the road . Just get you one of those Varoom machines and put some extra speakers on the tail and blast it . I mean , I outrun my exhaust anyway . Whats all the racket for . the neighbors .
What I like most a bout the V is her stealthyness . I can slip up on about anyone with it . If you insist on racket , spend the cash , around 3-4 hundred bux for nearly no gain in power and a load of noise .

That's the real deal ...................

I think the standard pipe sounds lame , I also ride in the worst of traffic to work and a loud pipe warns the road users im there .

Different strokes for different folks .

Stay with the stock pipes and setup friend . These folks doing exhausts , power commanders and throttle body mods are only get about 1-2 additional horse power .
What they are getting along with that is the need for allot of other adjustments to compensate for the new pipe . If it is racket you want to hear going down the road . Just get you one of those Varoom machines and put some extra speakers on the tail and blast it . I mean , I outrun my exhaust anyway . Whats all the racket for . the neighbors .
What I like most a bout the V is her stealthyness . I can slip up on about anyone with it . If you insist on racket , spend the cash , around 3-4 hundred bux for nearly no gain in power and a load of noise .

That's the real deal ...................

LOL, and there you have it!


That's exactly how I felt when I first picked up my bike, but when I hear that exhaust singing, which it does for a couple thousand RPMs, quietly, I want MORE! I want my dirt bike to be STEALTHY. I'd rather never have anybody even know I'm in the woods. I want my Versys to be MEDIUM. I like the stock can, but I want a few more DBs, I want to hear it singing to me, but not so much that my neighbors will hear me every time I leave and come home, nor do I wish to attract the watchful eyes of the popo.




Have fun with your bikes!

i personnally do alot of touring, running louder pipes can be a headache after i while, yeah i like a little rumble, but if i can't pick up any appreciable power increase, why bother? also i'm not interested in losing any gas mileage, considering the cost of it now....it's also hard to beat the quality of stock parts as opposed to aftermarket.....i'm waiting to hear some dyno numbers with a pipe change...any of you guys that are doing this try to give a breakdown on which changes gave the most bang for the buck.......

Topics like this are what make me appreciate how different folks see things from different angles . Man , I KNOW you are glad you aren't just like me . LOL
You see , I am the other way with the offroad can . I want mine to be just loud enough I can mentally keep up with my rpm's , it helps me to remember what gear that I " might " be in . LOL

I want all my bikes to sound nice and healthy. Personal preference is cool.

Unfortunately, "personal preference" is all too often intrusive to everyone around you. My biggest bitch with frigging Harley riders is their knee jerk "gotta buy a loud exhaust" mindset. Granted, their is nothing sweeter than a high performance engine winding up (a defacto exclusion of Harleys). But, I don't want to hear your bike (or your car, or your truck or your chainsaw, etc) in an urban setting. The only place that sound is appropriate is on a race track. If you like the sound so much find a way to pipe it into your helmit. Leave the rest of us in peace.

Edit: sorry for the subject hijack, but it seemed appropriate to the direction the thread was heading

**** it, move to the country. ;) Most Harleys don't bother me. Seems like it's the minority that sound just too damn loud.

My wife says my dirt bike is hella loud, it was almost silent when I bought it. I didn't change anything, it just needs new packing.

I get a kick out of the kids with slow ass POS ugly dented ricers and a loud coffee can sticking out the back. I LOVE to run them down in my '87 300D (as in Diesel). :) Heck it's not many cars that old girl can outrun.

I want more DB from the Versys. I ride, to ride. I ride for ME. I enjoy hearing the motor working, and the growl of the exhaust. It's part of the experience. I don't want anything open pipe loud. The Versys after market cans are all really short, which leads me to believe they're really loud.

Good call, Luke.:yeahsmile: You spend a couple hundred on a fart can so I have to spend thousands to move. Like I said... pipe it into your helmet.

The exhaust that 08versys figured out is just a bit louder than stock and has a nice rumble to it.

The exhaust that 08versys figured out is just a bit louder than stock and has a nice rumble to it.

I'm tempted, just wish I could find something in stainless.

I'd also like to see a dyno or three of a V with a can and some other mods. Plenty of 650r dynos on the introwebs, but the V is a different motor, tuning wise anyways.

I'm tempted, just wish I could find something in stainless...

I'd love to find a stainless muffler to use just so I could say it was stainless. I ordered a Magnaflow stainless muffler that was very close to the same dimensions as the Cherry Bomb I am using. I was going to offer 2 different kit, with the stainless Magnaflow kit being about $40 more than the aluminized steel Cherry Bomb kit. When I got the magnaflow in and opened it up, I immediately knew it was going back. The welds were dark and ugly, and it would have looked bad. If anyone comes up with an inexpensive stainless can (preferably polished) that has about an 11" body, with approximately 3x7 oval dimensions please let me know.

Personally I think the aluminized steel Cherry Bomb will last a loooong time in anything but the toughest conditions. Not many people ride on salt covered snowy roads so I'm not concerned about it prematurely rotting away.

As far as warranty goes, it would be easy enough to remove a muffler, air filter, and Power Commander if you ever had any warranty issues you needed taken care of and were worried they would say something about them.
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I will be running my Versys and mates on a dyno tomorrow , purely to see the power difference between the stock pipe and the Penta pipe I fitted a week ago .

Butt dyno is telling me there is more bottom and mid range on the Penta , but may be dropping off sooner than the stock , will know for sure tomorrow .

Unfortunately, "personal preference" is all too often intrusive to everyone around you. My biggest bitch with frigging Harley riders is their knee jerk "gotta buy a loud exhaust" mindset. Granted, their is nothing sweeter than a high performance engine winding up (a defacto exclusion of Harleys). But, I don't want to hear your bike (or your car, or your truck or your chainsaw, etc) in an urban setting. The only place that sound is appropriate is on a race track. If you like the sound so much find a way to pipe it into your helmit. Leave the rest of us in peace.

Edit: sorry for the subject hijack, but it seemed appropriate to the direction the thread was heading

I like louder, performance exhausts. I ride them easy and quiet, when appropriate. I certainly have no intention of intruding on anyone. OTOH, I quit trying to please others all the time long ago. You're not going to make everybody happy, and somebody's not going to like most anything. Be reasonable, and press on.

My take on it...

has anyone considered powdercoating the cherry bomb pipe? it should help with the looks and the corrosion resistence, burn off should be minimal??? just a thought... still looking to see some dyno #'s with just a muffler change.....love this sight!!!

Had the dyno done Saturday , as per the printout there is a big increase in torque and horse power through the midrange ( up to 6nm at 5400 rpm ) power is more linear , top end power is up by 1 hp . The bike is otherwise stock .

http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u332/Shawnj250/VersysDyno-standardpipePentaPipe.jpg

Here is a link to the bike on the dyno , not sure if it works .

http://s517.photobucket.com/albums/u332/Shawnj250/?action=view&current=MOV00201.flv

Awesome!

It works

Very cool, thanks Shawn. What's your setup?

Very cool, thanks Shawn. What's your setup?


Bike is stock , only changed the silencer to the Penta performance silencer

http://forums.kawasakiversys.com/showthread.php?t=1068

Going to try a 16t front sprocket now as the mid range is very strong so should still pull quickly through the gears .

shawn,

Exactly what I was looking for before I go and buy a versys. I like the sound, not too loud, and the dyno chart gives me exactly what I want, a smoother low and mid range without drop off on top. Does your setup use a power commander or any other mods.

Really like the green color, but I think the dark frame is much nicer than the silver we get here in the US.

Manitunc - as per my last post above , the bike is stock , nothing has been done besides the slip on . Standard filter etc , bike has 3500 km's on it .

BTW the bike was dyno'd at 5000 ft so it will be stronger at lower altitudes .

At this altitude with the new pipe it is so easy to wheelie without clutching it , really enjoying this bike .

has anyone considered powdercoating the cherry bomb pipe? it should help with the looks and the corrosion resistence, burn off should be minimal??? just a thought... still looking to see some dyno #'s with just a muffler change.....love this sight!!!

I don't think you'll have much luck with powdercoating - the muffler just gets too hot...maybe if it was double walled like the OEM, otherwise the coating would just burn off. Maybe ceramic like a Jet-Hot coating or something. But it's been my experience that most mufflers rust through from the inside...especially in a catalytic system. The sulfuric / nitric acids produced in the exhaust are way more corrosive than anything that happens to the outside of the can.

Painted mine with high heat stove black. bete.

Painted mine with high heat stove black. bete.

That, or the High Heat BBQ Black paint would be another great option. I'd love to see someone paint the whole setup black. If I get some time, I may prep and paint mine with BBQ Black to see how it holds up.
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Shawn:

Are you getting any decelleration popping?

No pop on mine. bete.

That, or the High Heat BBQ Black paint would be another great option. I'd love to see someone paint the whole setup black. If I get some time, I may prep and paint mine with BBQ Black to see how it holds up.

I used VHT flat black header paint. Looks nice but is not the most durable paint I've used. It scratches off a bit more easily than I would like, and I did all the right things prepping—roughed-up all surfaces and baked it in the oven three times increasingly hotter. I even applied at least two good coats while painting.

I've been told that Kal-Gard header paint is more durable.

"Moto Guzzi" LOL!

"Moto Guzzi" LOL!

x2!!

Shawn:

Are you getting any decelleration popping?

I used to get a small pop maybe twice in a 50km ride to work with the original box , the new silencer is the same , no difference there .

The concept of "loud pipes saves lives" is pure BS. The time the loud pipe is REALLY obvious is when it gone PAST you. Check out the Doppler effect. The most you would get from aftermarket cans is not HP it is a weight savings. Probably about 6-9 pounds depending on the can. If that's worth $350 or more to you, go for it.

Loud pipes do help w/recognition. "Saving lives" seems a bit dramatic. They also help w/power (Though not peak power, so much.) and throttle response. That is more important than peak power to a street rider, anyway.

We all have our take on things. Make the bike your's. Whatever that may, or may not, be.

I can't imagine needing any better throttle response than what the stock Versys offers, it's superb. Its almost too responsive in first and second. Not complaining though. Love the bike, no need to change it. Just putting some flames on it "to make it mine"!

The concept of "loud pipes saves lives" is pure BS. The time the loud pipe is REALLY obvious is when it gone PAST you. Check out the Doppler effect. The most you would get from aftermarket cans is not HP it is a weight savings. Probably about 6-9 pounds depending on the can. If that's worth $350 or more to you, go for it.

My opinions have gone back and forth with regards to this. I used to have a pipe on my old bike and still find myself revving the V up to warn off drivers who are crunching in on my space. I think pipes will help a lot when you're in the blind spot and a driver can't see you.

mc53pa - you have obviously not ridden a bike with a pipe , most aftermarket pipes will give you a performance increase , as per the V the dyno chart shows it , and it is noticible when riding .

As per Lukejt I can get the attention of drivers with the louder pipe .

I can't imagine needing any better throttle response than what the stock Versys offers, it's superb. Its almost too responsive in first and second. Not complaining though. Love the bike, no need to change it. Just putting some flames on it "to make it mine"!

The can does make a nice change: stronger midrange and crisper, smoother throttle response. W/the weight savings, looks, and sound, it's a must-do on all my bikes. To each his own.

I will be running my Versys and mates on a dyno tomorrow , purely to see the power difference between the stock pipe and the Penta pipe I fitted a week ago .

Butt dyno is telling me there is more bottom and mid range on the Penta , but may be dropping off sooner than the stock , will know for sure tomorrow .

The butt dyno is the most inacurate way to measure anything. The big problem is it is connected to the ear drum.

mc53pa - you have obviously not ridden a bike with a pipe , most aftermarket pipes will give you a performance increase , as per the V the dyno chart shows it , and it is noticible when riding .

As per Lukejt I can get the attention of drivers with the louder pipe .

Yah big improvement. On my Uly I bought the best can I could get. Everyone said it was number 1. Now I know where they got the number 1. That was the HP gain I got 1 HP at redline. Less at normal driving RPMs.

Show us the dyno before and after.

Yah big improvement. On my Uly I bought the best can I could get. Everyone said it was number 1. Now I know where they got the number 1. That was the HP gain I got 1 HP at redline. Less at normal driving RPMs.

Show us the dyno before and after.

Maybe you missed it, page two of this thread;

http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u332/Shawnj250/VersysDyno-standardpipePentaPipe.jpg

Very nice gains. Well worth the time, IMO. Also, as I said elsewhere, the seat-of-the-pants dyno is all I need. The numbers are very secondary, and this is not the bike to be worried about that. For feel, looks, response, sound, etc., the mods. are well worth it. All I gotta' do is make me happy...

The butt dyno is the most inacurate way to measure anything. The big problem is it is connected to the ear drum.

If you look at my post I made before I dyno'd the bike I commented on the mid range pull , and the dyno report showed my butt dyno was pretty accurate . :D

IF a louder pipe helps you be safe because "people hear you coming" maybe you should tape down your horn button too. That would be loud and annoying and cheap.

Not really the same thing: No performance gain; no improved throttle response; it doesn't look any better; it certainly doesn't sound any better; and it didn't lose any weight. Not much of an analogy.

However, I will go along w/not much caring for loud pipes as a safety measure. Though, it will help in some instances. Not a bad side benefit...

I fitted a TBR CF can on my V. The TBR is very well built, the included hardware is top notch. It's easy to install and once in place it's rock solid. I removed the quiet insert before installing the can because I thought it looked better w/o it. On my first ride I thought it was just way too loud, like STUPID quadtarded loud. The instructions claim a sound reduction of 2-3 decibels with the insert, which means the insert makes the pipe 1/4-1/8 as loud. I replaced the insert and it is in fact much quieter. My wife was outside right next to the street gardening when I headed out today. When I came back she said my bike was a lot quieter than the Hardleys that ride by. :)

As for performance, just like the chart above it does nothing to help at high revs. Where it REALLY helps the V is at 2-3000 rpms. With the stock exhaust, if I was in 4th, 5th or 6th gears at 2,000 rpms, I could literally hold the throttle WIDE OPEN and the bike would bog and SLOWLY accelerate. With the TBR fitted, it pulls MUCH harder from 2k. I wouldn't even consider keeping the bike below 4k with the stock muffler. Now, with the TBR I believe I'll be downshifting a lot less. It really opens up the bottom end and smooths things out. It's feels like the throttle body vacuum mod multiplied several times over.

Easy wheelie power, that's what I was really after, and I'm not disappointed. In fact, I had several roll on wheelies at 50mph from around 4000 rpms. It pulls better at lower speeds lower in the RPM range as well.

I'm going to try the sub throttle and air box baffles next, and when I save up some more $$ I might get a PCIII.

Luke

If you pull the sub-throttle plates, you better get a PC w/a map. Otherwise, you'll run quite lean. I have done that on a few bikes, including my wife's Ninja 650. It makes a nice difference.

I'll wait then, thanks.


Luke

Rog. It's nothing crazy, but a noticeable, nice difference. Enjoy.

Well said. I second the point re posting some dyno results if you get em. A few members have recommended getting your bike thrown on a dyno if you make some mods, definitely a smart move to make sure mix is right and that you got the gains you were looking for. 1-2 hp and a ft-lb of torque just ain't worth the cash. As for the seat of your pants dyno, the only gain you'll feel there is the weight you dropped by swapping cans. You could trim 10 lbs off the V anywhere and you would feel the same butt dyno response.

Check out the curve the torque gained down low. It's there.

If an approx 10% boost down low for several thousand RPMs and the sweet sound plus losing 10lbs isn't worth it to you, no sweat, I get it. But don't discount a mod based on peak power output alone, because that's just part of the story.

I'm into low end grunt. After coming off an FZ1, and compared to my Husky TE450, the Versys was just a bit too tame for my taste. Hop on my dirtbike and I can wheelie all day long, and the motor feels violent compared to the V. I don't want another liter bike. I dig the smaller lighter V, but yeah, I still want a few more ponies. I love the bike, just wish maybe it were a 750 and had just a bit more grunt. The can was worth it for me. When I pay off some bills I'll prolly get a PCIII and or the Arrow headers.

Looking forward to seen another dyno with the Arrow headers. :)

When I pay off some bills I'll prolly get a PCIII and or the Arrow headers.

Looking forward to seen another dyno with the Arrow headers. :)

Luke

Ditto, and ditto! :D

I definitely think the can is worth it. I probably won't mess w/the PC or headers. I went through all that stuff w/my wife's Ninja 650. A gain, but not worth the cash and trouble to me. Now, on real performance bikes, it's a different story. I ride the V for what it is, and find it quite enjoyable.

I have been reading the V runs lean at lower RPM and richer at high RPM.

Are any of you with the slip ons and who haven't remapped the FI, noticing more heat at lower RPM's?

I do. After the Arrow slip-on, I'm getting the dreaded "purple haze" on the right cylinder header just off the head. I think this is due more to:

1. The PAIR system needs blocked off.
2. The throttle bodies need sync'd.

Little bit of decel "pop" now & then as well. Funny, the left cylinder header is as golden as it has been for a while... no extra heat induced color change there. No big deal, I'll get both squared away this week.

Edit: BTW Shawn, nice dyno run! I'm impressed. :D

I added the TBR w/no other changes. I still get a little heat on my lower, right leg. But, I got it before the change, as well. No change of consequence noted here.

The right hand side will feel hotter on your right leg due to the head being closer to the right hand side .

I havent felt any difference in heat before and after the pipe .

The V does run lean at low revs to accomodate pollution laws. If you swap the can do yourself a favour and get the mix set properly.

It can certainly use an FI tune, even w/the stock set-up. However, I don't foresee any problems w/a slip-on and stock mapping. If you do much more than that, then, yes, you need to remap.

The V does run lean at low revs to accomodate pollution laws. If you swap the can do yourself a favour and get the mix set properly.


You cant change the mixture without a Power Commander , and the Power Commander will void the warranty .

Pipe does not void the warranty .

You cant change the mixture without a Power Commander , and the Power Commander will void the warranty .

Pipe does not void the warranty .

Good point and I agree in not doing things that will void your warranty, just doesn't make sense. But since the PC doesn't alter the stock map in any way you could just unplug it when you take the bike in for service. You could also consider using a unit from Cobra or Techlusion, wouldn't need dyno tuning then (though it would be the ideal thing to set the bike up properly) because you just dial up a little more fuel by turning the appropriate pot(s). Only drawback is that I believe these units can only add fuel, not take it away. This shouldn't be an issue though because you can choose where in the rpm scale you want to make a subtle change by choosing how you set the pots. The lower end of the rpm scale seems to be where modern bikes are set to run lean to lessen emissions. Up higher in the rpm scale they are often set a little rich to protect the engine. Some people have posted their PC maps online and they show a lot of minus signs indicating fuel was subtracted up high. From people I've spoken with who have used all three units, they seem to favour the Cobra because of its ease of use and the fact that it uses OEM connectors. Two guys I contacted who run dyno tuning shops (Link Certified) both commented that the PCIII is really best applied for track use, but alot of people are using it for the street. I posted this simply FYI. I have around 3500km on my bike and won't make any changes (if any) until I get a feel for what this bike really needs. Hard to tell until you live with it for a while. I can say that the first thing I drop $300 on will be upgraded tires, probably sooner than later. And BTW Shawn, I wasn't trying to put down aftermarket pipes, or question your dyno run, I just wanted to post some balanced info so that every newbie who checked the site didn't think that the first thing they had to do was rush out and buy a new pipe. For them, new tires, proper suspension setup, and $300 to $500 on a performance driving course would probably be a better investment. Much respect to all who ride and try to make their bike their own, and take the time to post helpful tips to the forum.

I agree that correct setup of suspension and also rider training should be first on the list.

Hey Shawn, came across this as I was digging up more info on PCIII. Thought you would find it interesting. As I said before, my goal is achieving the best power delivery I can, not so much peak power gains, and at the same time I like the idea of having the bike tuned to its optimal AFR for the engine, not just to meet EPA numbers. Simply FYI guys.

http://www.hooliganbiketech.net/hondacbr1000rrweb/1000RR_frameindex.htm

Click on the following tabs to the left under the red Modification section:
1. Power Commander III USB
2. Dyno Runs
3. Custom PC III USB Map

Lots of other good stuff at this site too.
Enjoy.

If you're looking to go faster and/or be a safer rider, suspension and training are paramount. If, however, you're just wanting to increase the enjoyment of your bike and riding, exhaust is right at the top of the list! For me, anyway. But, hey, that's why we all have our own bikes.