R1 shock fitted - need spring source. - Page 3 - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #41 of 339 (permalink) Old 12-31-2010, 12:45 PM
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The original yellow spring that came on my '08 R1 shock has an ID of 55 mm or 2.1654 inches. This matches the ID of the 58 mm x 55 mm reducing collar Racetech provided.

2 3/16 inches is a little over 55.5 mm, and in my world 0.5 mm is negligible. I think you'd be fine running that spring.

...

Now that I know what to look for, I see there are many suppliers of 2.25 x 7.0 standard springs. I certainly paid a premium ordering through Racetech. Here's one supplier that came up, they don't have as many rates but the springs are only $68:

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?tp...action=product

I'd imagine one could contact Eibach directly, too.

The reducing collars were cheap, but I'd expect them to be even cheaper elsewhere.
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post #42 of 339 (permalink) Old 12-31-2010, 02:14 PM
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I just called Cannon Racecraft and spoke with Trish regarding the R1 Shock/Spring and using it on the Versys.

They will create a spring to your specific requirements for $90 (powercoating included). They are currently offering 10% disc through Jan 31. That is $81 out the door (no tax)if you don't live in Oklahoma! You won't need any adapters. And you get to specify the color. And you decide what the exact rate should be. And its never taken them more than a week to get me a custom spring. I am in texas though.

Cannon has built many springs for me, and out of around 75 fork and shock springs only 1 set of fork springs was off by .2kg/mm. They are very good. Website could use some work but they definitely know how to make a spring.

If you wanted to get creative you could even order one that was slightly progressive. Might be a bit more $ than the straight rate.

I think that a great spring might be one that progresses from 14kg/mm to 18kg/mm over 4 inches of travel. To be safe total spring travel should be at least 6in. Then you could really dial in the shock and let the spring handle the rising rate.
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post #43 of 339 (permalink) Old 01-14-2011, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by UAV online View Post
Got my 13.8 kg/mm Eibach spring equipped R1 shock back this week. Looks pretty good on there, kind of a blood red color. Now I just need to get the bushes bored out to 12mm so I can mount it up. One of the bushes slipped out easily, but I'm still not sure exactly how to go about boring it out. I have access to a drill press, but how do I secure it in place without damaging it's exterior? The other bush apparently comes out with a hammer and a socket.

Seems like what I need is a drill press with a vice to keep this round thing from just spinning as I drill into it...

...

Here's a pic:


(The spring doesn't look that bright red in person, more of a Burgundy or Maroon.)

It's a 2008 Yamaha R1 shock with a Racetech-installed 7.0" x 2.25" 13.8 kg/mm (775 lb/in) [P/N SESP 702250775] sandwiched between two 58 mm x 55 mm reducing collars [P/N SPSC 5855]. I delivered the shock (sans original spring) to Louis Martinez (951-279-6655x109) at Racetech in Corona. After confirming fitment, he ordered the spring from Eibach. It took several weeks to arrive---my only complaint, as Louis had said it would be there in a couple days. But he didn't charge me to install the new spring, and got the shock back to me by Christmas, so I'm a happy camper. $153 for the Racetech parts and shipping plus $60 for the used R1 shock.. $213 ain't bad for a custom-sprung, 3-way adjustable shock. Now I just need to get on the drill press and bore out those mounting bushings so I can get this baby on the road.

I'll know a lot more after a test ride, but as far as I can tell the only drawback vs Zeph's setup is that this standard 7.0" x 2.25" Eibach spring requires reducing collars which are 1.6 mm thick---which is like bumping up the minimum preload setting three notches or 3 mm.
UAV,

Have you fit that 08 R1 shock up to the bike yet? I am planning on doing the same thing. The 08 shock is a bit different than the 06 around the external reservoir. I am wondering if there are any fitup issues.

(I want to do the 08 R1 shock because of the hi speed and low speed compression)

thanks

JBRIA
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post #44 of 339 (permalink) Old 01-19-2011, 11:22 AM
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Hey JBRIA,

Progress had slowed following an unfortunate act of vandalism (who knew a tip-over could cause $1500 in damage?), but I've found a machine shop to drill out the mounting inserts.

With any luck I'll have it in this weekend. Will keep you guys updated.

- Steve
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post #45 of 339 (permalink) Old 01-19-2011, 02:44 PM
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Shock ordered

I have bought a 2008 R1 shock so I hope you find no fitting issues.
Not received it yet. New spring tomorrow.

The reducing collars to fit the spring were quoted as 58/55mm. That seems a mighty small outside diameter and the shock photo shows the collar looking much bigger than that.
Is 58mm really correct?
Ted.
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post #46 of 339 (permalink) Old 01-19-2011, 04:21 PM
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I didn't get a chance to put a caliper to the collars before they were mounted up, but from what I can tell the dimensions are accurate. Keep in mind that 55mm is the ID of the original spring, and 58mm the ID of the new spring.
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post #47 of 339 (permalink) Old 01-20-2011, 02:45 AM
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Collar dimensions

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Originally Posted by UAV online View Post
I didn't get a chance to put a caliper to the collars before they were mounted up, but from what I can tell the dimensions are accurate. Keep in mind that 55mm is the ID of the original spring, and 58mm the ID of the new spring.
I assumed it was the collar which was visible. It looks like it is only a bit less OD than the spring OD which must be over 70mm?
You can measure it in situ if that is the collar.
Was the collar just like a large flat washer, or was it a machined shape to keep the spring central?
Ted.
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post #48 of 339 (permalink) Old 01-20-2011, 11:07 AM
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The latter. It has a lip on the inside to fill up the space between the OD of the shock (55mm) and the ID of the new spring (58mm). Here's a pic from Racetech's site:

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post #49 of 339 (permalink) Old 01-20-2011, 04:52 PM
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Collars.

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The latter. It has a lip on the inside to fill up the space between the OD of the shock (55mm) and the ID of the new spring (58mm). Here's a pic from Racetech's site:

Thanks UAV. I have since found that the spring ID varies with every batch manufactured. The one I have ordered is 59.5mm ID one end and 59mm the other end. At least there will be clearance enough to make the collars with a decent thickness of metal in the lip.

Have you got it fitted and ridden yet?

Ted.
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post #50 of 339 (permalink) Old 01-20-2011, 05:31 PM
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Nah. I'm still working on getting the bushing/sleeve drilled out. The one that acts as a bearing seems to be semi-hardened so a regular drill bit didn't work. Gonna see if I can get a carbide-tipped bit.

Last edited by UAV online; 01-20-2011 at 05:42 PM.
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post #51 of 339 (permalink) Old 01-21-2011, 02:22 AM
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Nah. I'm still working on getting the bushing/sleeve drilled out. The one that acts as a bearing seems to be semi-hardened so a regular drill bit didn't work. Gonna see if I can get a carbide-tipped bit.
Take it to a machinist if you have a local one.
I am thinking about fitting new Vesconite bushes instead.
Ted.
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post #52 of 339 (permalink) Old 01-21-2011, 02:44 AM
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jdrocks had a direct replacement 900 lbs/in (16.1 kg/mm) spring fitted to '08 R1 shock by Cannon Racecraft, without any collars or modification required, except for boring the bushings to 12 mm. A good 15/32" (11.90625 mm) bit works well too, by the way... Stock Versys spring is supposed to be 895 lbs/in. Now that Cannon Racecraft have the specs on the shock, any rate should be available.
jdrocks should have a photo, contact info, and prices out soon.
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post #53 of 339 (permalink) Old 01-21-2011, 04:51 PM
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The end where the reservoir is, only has the bush, the other end has the needle bearing.
On the R1 the shock is mounted with the reservoir upwards I believe.
The angular movement at the upper end where it bolts to the frame is small, hence the simple bush at the reservoir end.
The bottom end, bolted to the swing arm linkage moves through greater angles hence the needle bearing. On the direct acting Versys it will move through bigger angles.
NOW! We are mounting it upside down so we have the bearings in the wrong position according to the way they were designed.
Maybe we should think about this guys!
This is just my theory I must add, I haven't had confirmation from anywhere.
The lower end with the bush can be fitted with a 10mm bolt without drilling the bush, by making spacers. The hardened bush for the needle rollers cannot, because there is a tapped 12mm hole in the frame, UNLESS we work out a way to use a 10mm bolt on that end also, by modifying the tapped hole arrangement to 10mm. I will check in the morning if there is room to get a nut behind the frame.

Ted.
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post #54 of 339 (permalink) Old 01-21-2011, 07:04 PM
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Your points about mounting this shock upside down are well taken. I was concerned about that, too. But I figure as long as one of the connection points can rotate, it'll be fine. Will have to look at the whole assembly some more.

I took my shock to a local machine shop today. The bearing end tested at 59 Rockwell, so they decided to bore it out with a lathe, IIRC. The sleeve on the other end is a lot softer, so they're going to ream it. Unfortunately the reamer guy went home early, so no test rides for me this weekend. I got plenty of other stuff to do, anyway.
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post #55 of 339 (permalink) Old 01-22-2011, 11:22 AM
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Your points about mounting this shock upside down are well taken. I was concerned about that, too. But I figure as long as one of the connection points can rotate, it'll be fine. Will have to look at the whole assembly some more.

I took my shock to a local machine shop today. The bearing end tested at 59 Rockwell, so they decided to bore it out with a lathe, IIRC. The sleeve on the other end is a lot softer, so they're going to ream it. Unfortunately the reamer guy went home early, so no test rides for me this weekend. I got plenty of other stuff to do, anyway.
Hi UAV.
The bush end that you are going to ream. Are you reaming that with the bush still in the shock-eye?
My shock is a new unused one but the bush appears to be fixed in the rubber bush and non-rotating, so the bearing surface must be between the bush and the mounting bolt. Is that the same in your shock?
In that case a bigger 12mm bearing-bolt is better than a 10mm, so I will do the same as you and convert to 12mm. I must get a precision ground bolt so it is properly round.
The upper end has to be converted to 12mm as the frame tapped hole can't be converted, so I will get that bush turned out as you did. The bush outer surface MUST be well protected during turning since any surface scratches will wreck the needle bearing.
The rubber-mounted bush will give the necessary compliance to allow deflections in the frame and swing-arm so that is good. My existing Hagon shock has got no compliance and tends to wear the pins and bushes.
My new spring is SO MUCH heavier than the stock R1 spring.
All good fun this.
Ted.
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post #56 of 339 (permalink) Old 01-22-2011, 12:15 PM
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Hello,

Try these guys if your still looking. I have a spring on order for an 09 Versys, I wanted a new one powder coated Candy Lime Green... They seem to know what they are doing. They make the springs, have the specs etc... They even send out for Powder coating so it comes to you in your favorite color.

http://www.wilbersusa.com/hyperpro-springs.htm


Hope this Helps,

Vic
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post #57 of 339 (permalink) Old 01-22-2011, 05:04 PM
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Hi UAV.
The bush end that you are going to ream. Are you reaming that with the bush still in the shock-eye?
My shock is a new unused one but the bush appears to be fixed in the rubber bush and non-rotating, so the bearing surface must be between the bush and the mounting bolt. Is that the same in your shock?
In that case a bigger 12mm bearing-bolt is better than a 10mm, so I will do the same as you and convert to 12mm. I must get a precision ground bolt so it is properly round.
The upper end has to be converted to 12mm as the frame tapped hole can't be converted, so I will get that bush turned out as you did. The bush outer surface MUST be well protected during turning since any surface scratches will wreck the needle bearing.
The rubber-mounted bush will give the necessary compliance to allow deflections in the frame and swing-arm so that is good. My existing Hagon shock has got no compliance and tends to wear the pins and bushes.
My new spring is SO MUCH heavier than the stock R1 spring.
All good fun this.
Ted.
Yes. They're going to ream out the softer sleeve without removing it from the shock. Will take a little creativity with vices, clamps, pieces of wood.. but I think they're up to the task. That sleeve is essentially frozen in place by the rubber bush(ing) between it and the shock eye. I'm not sure why they call this end a bush(ing) in the service manual. It's not acting as a bearing. The sleeve is clamped to the frame (or swingarm, in this hybrid application) with 44 ft-lbs. And you'd have to apply a lot of torque to it to get anything to slip against that rubber. The needle bearing end certainly relieves any torque on the shock before it can build up on the other end. In any case, I don't see a problem with reaming the softer sleeve in-situ.. nor with mounting the shock upside down. The needle bearing will do its job just as well.

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post #58 of 339 (permalink) Old 01-23-2011, 03:43 AM
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rubber bush.

Thanks UAV for that info.
That means, if the bush is clamped solid to the frame, then all the shock rotation at the bush mounting is taken up in twisting of the rubber. Now I don't know the specification of this type of rubber moulded bush but my engineering instinct tells me they can only rotate a small number of degrees before tearing the bush to rubber adhesion.
I am going to mount my shock in place on the bike with no spring on so I can test the full range of swing-arm movement. I will try to measure the angular rotation at the swing-arm end and decide if I think it is too much for the rubber.
If it is I will fit a ground bolt as I said before and I think I will drill it for a grease-nipple as well. I hope it isn't too much because a moulded rubber bearing would be preferable and should be wear-free.

All the rest of you guys must be laughing your socks off at all this "stuff" we have got ourselves into. I won't bore you with the struggle I had to get the spring off and I have yet to face the bigger struggle of getting the stronger one back on.

Ted.
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post #59 of 339 (permalink) Old 01-23-2011, 04:02 AM
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.

All the rest of you guys must be laughing your socks off at all this "stuff" we have got ourselves into. I won't bore you with the struggle I had to get the spring off and I have yet to face the bigger struggle of getting the stronger one back on.

Ted.
yep im laughing as I would not touch that job and would pay somone to do it or talk really nice to a engineering friend
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post #60 of 339 (permalink) Old 01-23-2011, 04:19 AM
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bush thickness and length

More points I have just realised UAV.
The bush in the rubber is only 15.3mm OD originally.
By the time you have reamed it out to 12mm you will have reduced the wall thickness to 15.3 -12.0 divided by 2 = 1.65mm.
That may be too thin to take the end load of the 44ft/lbs.
I suggest you think about doing what I am now going to do, fit a 10mm bolt with spacers so it can bolt into the 12mm through-holes in the swing-arm.
You could machine a 12mm bolt down to 10mm from where it goes through the shock-bush so you only have to put a "spacer-sleeve" on the nut end.
ALSO. The length of the R1 bush is 30mm whereas the original Versys bush is 32mm so you will need 10.1mm ID washers either side of the R1 bush to take up the clearance, and these washers (or just 1 washer on 1 side only) will apply the end load onto the bush instead of the too-thin sleeves.
My Hagon shock was supplied with suitable nylon washers but on that shock the bush rotates inside the shock eye so it didn't need much clamping force on the bush.
Another thought. If you do ream the bush get them to take care to keep it cool so it doesn't destroy or weaken the rubber to bush adhesion.

Sorry about all this but better before than after.
Ted.
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