Oil consumption and sludge 40k miles - Page 2 - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #21 of 168 (permalink) Old 10-19-2012, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Sprocket View Post
I was using 5W-40 synthetic car oil (Castrol) and switched to semi synthetic 10W-40 motorcycle specific oil and noticed a big improvement in shifting smoothness. I don't know why this is but even with now 5000miles on the bike since my last oil change it is still shifting much smoother than it was with the Castrol 5W-40 synthetic car oil.
I have had similar results. I recently purchased my bike with 1700 miles and the last service record showed "bulk oil" from the dealer. I changed it myself with non-syn Repsol and noticed a major improvement in shifting smoothness.
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post #22 of 168 (permalink) Old 10-24-2012, 05:23 AM
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I am a mechanic. Both numbers look wrong to me. 105 -110 PSI is pretty low. Were both butterflies open?

Try a wet and dry compression test.

178-217 psi is almost diesel rates. 12 to 1 compression ration should be 185 on a new engine.

David


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Originally Posted by lgajohnymac View Post
No noticable smoke. I even warmed it up for the compression check in the garage. But I did smell oil burning, however that was after an oil change.

Oil lfilter was fairly clean when cut open, I could not see any sludge in it. I did not remove the pan, as I wanted to compression check prior to removing too much. I got the right cylinder checked and total compression was 105-110 psig with the throttle wide open. Service manual specs it at 178-217 (fairly sure about the lower spec from memory). The dang adapter for the hose to the gage stayed in the spark plug threads and I was out of time to check the left cylinder. So as soon as I can get out that adapter, I will warm up and check the left cylinder.

So it seems there will be more to investigate. I would speculate that the poor air filter was never meant to be dusty conditions often. And or that the valve clearance being at the bottom of the spec/slightly out most of its life contributed to the oil consumption.
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post #23 of 168 (permalink) Old 10-24-2012, 09:35 AM
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Cylinder Head
Cylinder Compression (Usable Range)
1 226 ∼ 1 844 kPa (12.5 ∼ 18.8 kgf/cm,
178 ∼ 267 psi) at 425 r/min (rpm)

From Service Manual
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post #24 of 168 (permalink) Old 10-24-2012, 07:30 PM
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Thank you for the correction.

awaiting results from the other cylinder.

David
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post #25 of 168 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David RSparky3 View Post
I am a mechanic. Both numbers look wrong to me. 105 -110 PSI is pretty low. Were both butterflies open?

Try a wet and dry compression test.

178-217 psi is almost diesel rates. 12 to 1 compression ration should be 185 on a new engine.

David
This is only a 10.6:1 ratio motor.

A leak-down test would glean more information.
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post #26 of 168 (permalink) Old 10-31-2012, 08:50 PM
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Doing a valve adjust on my 2112 V. I will do a compression test when done.

David
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post #27 of 168 (permalink) Old 10-31-2012, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron650 View Post
Cylinder Head
Cylinder Compression (Usable Range)
1 226 ∼ 1 844 kPa (12.5 ∼ 18.8 kgf/cm,
178 ∼ 267 psi) at 425 r/min (rpm)

From Service Manual
ER-6/Ninja 650R- 11.3:1 compression ratio

Cylinder Compression Usable Range:
961 ∼ 1 471 kPa (9.8 ∼ 15.0 kgf/cm, 139∼ 213 psi) at 400 r/min (rpm)

It would appear that Kawasaki mixed up specified cylinder compression usable range between Versys and ER6/650R.

-2009 Ninja 650R at 10,000 miles:

"Ran compression and leak down tests over the weekend, everything tested OK.

#1 compression = 229 psi
#2 compression = 228 psi

Leak down supply of 90 psi:
#1 leak down = 86.5 psi (3.9%)
#2 leak down = 86.2 psi (4.3%)"
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post #28 of 168 (permalink) Old 10-31-2012, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David RSparky3 View Post
Doing a valve adjust on my 2112 V. I will do a compression test when done.

David
I'd expect close to 180 psi on your 2012 V... Did it get a Motoman or owner's manual break-in? How many miles on it?
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post #29 of 168 (permalink) Old 11-01-2012, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
ER-6/Ninja 650R- 11.3:1 compression ratio

Cylinder Compression Usable Range:
961 ∼ 1 471 kPa (9.8 ∼ 15.0 kgf/cm, 139∼ 213 psi) at 400 r/min (rpm)

It would appear that Kawasaki mixed up specified cylinder compression usable range between Versys and ER6/650R.

-2009 Ninja 650R at 10,000 miles:

"Ran compression and leak down tests over the weekend, everything tested OK.

#1 compression = 229 psi
#2 compression = 228 psi

Leak down supply of 90 psi:
#1 leak down = 86.5 psi (3.9%)
#2 leak down = 86.2 psi (4.3%)"

Why are you posting the 650R spec ? The KLE has a 10.6:1 compression ratio.
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post #30 of 168 (permalink) Old 11-01-2012, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drdiesel1 View Post
Why are you posting the 650R spec ? The KLE has a 10.6:1 compression ratio.
Why do you think? My post is self-explanatory.
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post #31 of 168 (permalink) Old 11-01-2012, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by invader View Post
I'd expect close to 180 psi on your 2012 V... Did it get a Motoman or owner's manual break-in? How many miles on it?

Compression test will be done today.

For break in, I went for a 400 mile ride through the finger lakes of new york state pretty much by the book. I changed the oil and filter when I got home.

All on the day I picked it up. I then continued to follow the book recommended break in. After the initial 1,000 miles, I cut it loose and had a frikkin blast!

Its now one year later and 12,000 miles. Oil and filter changed every 2,000 miles. Looking at the timing chain and camshafts in NO bearings except the head and holder, I am glad I broke it in by the book. Generally I keep the RPM over 5,000 when I ride the bike. I rarely use 6th gear.

This is the first time I have even seen the air filter or plugs. Motor looks like brand new inside.
Book says valve clearance inspection at 26,250 miles. I had to check them out and glad I did, all exhaust valves and one intake were tight by .001" I was getting an occasional backfire when I blipped the throttle from idle.

Post test results after work.

David

Edit: No compression results, I do not have the 10mm adapter. I have 12mm and up for my gauge. Today I ordered the right one and bought a new shiny electronic beeping vibration torque wrench that converts metric and american. Its a nice tool I used it to put the bike back together instead of my 30 year old craftsman beam torque wrench. Tomorrow I sync the TBs and call it good. I cleaned the air filter and looked at the plugs. I hope to do nothing more but change oil and filter for the next year. Tires are a given.

Last edited by David RSparky3; 11-01-2012 at 07:36 PM.
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post #32 of 168 (permalink) Old 11-04-2012, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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I am happy to see some good discussion here. I have not been able to do any additional work, since I work out of town. In regards to the question on the compression check, I had the air box in place, I do not know what position the b-flys would be in with the throttle fully opened, and the engine warmed. I dunno if I posted this already but I got a similar reading on the left cylinder, approximately 100 psi. I will be doing a leak down test this weekend if I can source the appropriate hardware fittings. Does anyone have a restriction size suggestion?

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Last edited by lgajohnymac; 11-09-2012 at 07:47 AM.
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post #33 of 168 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
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Cold Leak Down

While I wait for it to warm up outside to open the garage door and warm up the engine to do a leak down and compression testing, I thought I would put up the cold leak down numbers.

At cold leak down, 100PSI source, cylinder one 96PSI, cylinder two 95PSI. I noted that the crank remained still in cylinder #2 without assistance, but on #1 I had to hold in place while applying pressure slowly to prevent it from rotating.

Clearances were rechecked as well,
#1 inlet 0.0060 both, outlets 0.0095 and 0.0085

#2 inlet 0.006 both, outlets 0.0080 and 0.0075

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post #34 of 168 (permalink) Old 12-26-2012, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
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FInally some time off to wrench

While home for the holiday, I am spending some overdue time on the versys. I heard that one can inspect the valve guide by pulling the header. Before I got that far I noticed this



Then I took the best pic I could



Looks like the outer valve guide is discolored dark from oil burning. I finally have my smoking gun. I will now be reshimming all valves to the center of the spec, and doing a little more investigation of this #1 outer valve and guide. Thanks for the feedback. Soon to be riding the versys again,
JM

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post #35 of 168 (permalink) Old 12-26-2012, 09:05 AM
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you are seeing burnt oil residue. It may or may not be from the valve guide. If it is, shimming the valves will not help.

I think Low compression is your problem I think the rings are toast possibly the cylinder is worn out of spec.

My Two cents.

David
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post #36 of 168 (permalink) Old 12-26-2012, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks David, although I would have expected that both valve guides would look this bad. The discolored valve guide was also the valve with the lowest clearance. My leak down checks were in the mid 90% range. I do not trust the compression checks I did earlier. With pressures of 100psig I would not expect the bike to run, as its still making power that I would not suspect any issue. For some reason, the pressure was not building during the test and I got the same numbers in both cylinders. I will recheck after replacing the shims with a separate kit.
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post #37 of 168 (permalink) Old 12-26-2012, 10:58 AM
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Does the bike start right up? With 100 psi the bike would be difficult starting.
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post #38 of 168 (permalink) Old 12-27-2012, 06:58 AM
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There's also much leaked oil down on front of crankcase below exhaust outlet... I did notice a bit of oil dripping from that valve seal when I replaced the header on my then new Versys. It hasn't leaked since and does not consume any oil.

You can check your valve to valve guide clearances and at least replace valve seals and springs, and adjust valve lash clearances. You'll be able to inspect the cylinders with the head off, and could consider inspecting pistons, replacing piston rings and a light hone in both cylinders.
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post #39 of 168 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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Finally able to get a little further into this, and wanted to post some pics thus far for comments. And I have a question. What do I do with the cam chain prior to and while removing the head after the cams are out? Seems like a bad idea to let it go...
#1 outer exhaust

#1 exhaust


#2 outer exhaust much cleaner

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post #40 of 168 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 02:07 PM
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Do you have a pic of the cam follower (bucket)? How does it fit in the bore?
Thank you

David
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