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post #141 of 413 (permalink) Old 09-27-2013, 11:14 AM
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I had a hugger on my bike for about 13,500 miles. Then I switched to a 'mud flap' kinda design. It seems to work really well. After riding around in the mud for quite a while on my WABDR trip, I only had one mud fleck that made its way onto the voltage regulator. Lots of mud was flung up from the front tire, though, that the SWmotech bash plate didn't deflect. But none of that made it far enough to the rear to affect the voltage regulator. Maybe the dried mud insulated the generator cover and elevated temps? Doubtful. There wasn't that much. I'm also pretty sure this was a problem before my trip even started, I just didn't realize it.

As for water, that would only help cool the voltage regulator and keep it running more efficiently. So maybe a rear tire hugger (in the city, at least) would be LESS beneficial to your voltage regulator. On the other hand, proper heat dissapation from the voltage regulator might not be the problem. As this discussion has made clear, our bikes are moving 100% of the current the stator is capable of putting out 100% of the time. It might simply be the design of the regulator, it might be stator wiring of too small a guage, operating temps that are not within the desired range?

It would seem that this problem is unrelated to a rear tire hugger, unless you have been riding around in the mud a whole bunch with no protection. That's my best guess.


Obviously, the failure point is the windings on the stator. I don't recall seeing any oil cooling facilitation by the rotor when I was in there replacing my stator last week. I read somewhere that BMW had the same problem on their F650/800GS bikes. They supposedly redesigned the rotor to have some holes in it for cooling. I imagine those holes are oriented such that they allow oil to flow outwards and away from the stator. Oil would then have to circulate back into the core of the rotor (where the stator is), and provide some more cooling. Sort of like a centrifuge, only the outer ring of the centrifuge is porous. It would be replentished because the centrifuge is slightly submerged in a bath of oil, allowing new materal to flow in from the side.

I wonder if Kawasaki has thought of this at all? Who knows. I'm probably going to buy a new voltage regulator soon... I don't want this happening again.

Last edited by nprecup; 09-27-2013 at 11:19 AM.
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post #142 of 413 (permalink) Old 10-01-2013, 10:58 PM
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Well as luck would have it my issue was not just the battery. A second test a few days later found the bike only charging to 13.08 volts. RR checked out fine again as did the stator. Cleaned all connections but still 13.08 volts. It was enough to ride to work and back a few times with a new battery but ordered the stator and RR anyway.

Pulled the cover off the side and what do you know, a burned pole on the stator. Goes to show I guess numbers can lie when dealing with an intermittent electrical issue. I'll know how the stator works tomorrow when the 1211 silicone gasket has a chance to set up and I can run the bike. Fingers crossed.

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post #143 of 413 (permalink) Old 10-03-2013, 09:08 PM
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Does anyone has a collection of pics or photos showing the V's burnt stators ? Apart from electrical concerns, are there any mechanical protrusions that could damage the stator ?

See example :
http://www.genebitsystems.com/david/...torfailure.htm

Or can the issue be just solved with the series R/R ?
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post #144 of 413 (permalink) Old 10-03-2013, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by glock19 View Post
Does anyone has a collection of pics or photos showing the V's burnt stators ? Apart from electrical concerns, are there any mechanical protrusions that could damage the stator ?

See example :
http://www.genebitsystems.com/david/...torfailure.htm

Or can the issue be just solved with the series R/R ?
Yes-------right on this forum, takes a bit of looking but by far the best

Electrical system problems. Where do I begin?

Stator Replacement Tips

Bike wont charge

It won't start

Last edited by onewizard; 10-03-2013 at 10:09 PM.
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post #145 of 413 (permalink) Old 10-03-2013, 10:25 PM
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Or can the issue be just solved with the series R/R ?
This will reduce the load on the alternator, as the OEM basically is running the alternator at maximum output all the time. Second thing I would do if time permitted is take a new stator to a reputable motor shop and have them give it a epoxy dip and bake. One of the leading failures , if you look through many of the photos is, one or two poles failing, this is due to internal turn to turn shorts within the single pole, or shorts turn to ground of the pole piece ( most stators have a epoxy coating over the lamination's, this is very thin, a matter of some vibration and next thing is a grounded winding). This is caused by the magnet wire vibrating and eventually wearing through the insulation, which is typically .003 ", the epoxy dipping is to keep this winding as one solid mass, and prevent the vibration/ wearing through of the insulation . One drawback to too heavy a coating is the reduced cooling , as there will be less oil circulation of the winding.

Last edited by onewizard; 10-03-2013 at 10:30 PM.
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post #146 of 413 (permalink) Old 10-04-2013, 02:09 AM
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Thanks Wizard. My company manufacture power tools, so coil winding, bonding, etc is not alien to me. I was thinking of having this service available or teach others to rewind their own, Trickiest part will be the bonding where epoxy is concerned. There are two ways, Powder coating or plain resin trickling. Both requires pre-heat (which some DIYers didn't consider), resin/powder application and heating again. Don't forget to insulate the stack with paper laminates too.

As you can see from the guy with the HONDA, his case was a failure waiting to happen due to the inherent design of the stator and mount. I hope the V has more FMEA in this area. My Compufire is now on backorder 2-3 weeks away.
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post #147 of 413 (permalink) Old 10-04-2013, 07:15 AM
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Thanks Wizard. My company manufacture power tools, so coil winding, bonding, etc is not alien to me. .
Well it has been about 30 years since I worked in a motor shop, at that time they had two types of varnish that we would dip the wound stators or armatures in , then bake in a oven for six to 8 hours. At that time they had a LIQUID epoxy varnish made specifically for motor winding, it cured using heat, they used a class H insulated magnet wire, so the oven temperature was set for around 125'C.

""Don't forget to insulate the stack with paper laminates too.""

Again, 30 years ago they used a product called dmd ( dacron mylar dacron) also used nomex which is used in many present day slot insulations------HOWEVER you will notice the laminations of factory made alternators use a epoxy type coating instead, this is why some people experience stator failure after dropping the bike. The stator expands and contracts and eventually it is possible to chip away if when machine wound there was a thin coating on the edges. Machine winding requires a certain amount of tension / drag on the magnet wire, the edges/ corners of the laminations are prone to magnet wire damage from this tension. If you look closely, (and I have discussed this in previous threads) Electrical system problems. Where do I begin? ---------------read posts 16, 18, 19

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post #148 of 413 (permalink) Old 10-04-2013, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by kiwitourer View Post
Two thoughts. Can an oem stator have a wiring mod to change the unit to an RR type?
Do you think that with the oem stator running full output all the time would cause the insulation on the copper wires in the coils to overheat and break down causing shorted windings and then failure?
I haven't studied/researched as to how both stators are wound.
Just some thoughts.
Because the rotor is a permanent magnet, it operates at full field all of the time. The regulator dumps excess current to ground. Usually, the stators are designed to be operated this way continuously. Obviously, they didn't quite do that with these.

The BMW K bikes actually had a conventional Bosch alternator with a wound rotor, and regulated it by varying the field excitation voltage.

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post #149 of 413 (permalink) Old 10-05-2013, 06:05 AM
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Because the rotor is a permanent magnet, it operates at full field all of the time. The regulator dumps excess current to ground. Usually, the stators are designed to be operated this way continuously. Obviously, they didn't quite do that with these.

The BMW K bikes actually had a conventional Bosch alternator with a wound rotor, and regulated it by varying the field excitation voltage.
Well said, and since we have no control of the field strength, idle RPM will have a lower output than a conventional alternator that has external regulation of the rotor magnetic field.
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post #150 of 413 (permalink) Old 12-01-2013, 12:30 PM
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Replaced the stator only. Went with an OEM (lower price), as I intend to upgrade to a newer V in the near future. I have a 2008 with 31k on it now...I just can't bring myself to get rid of her though.
I replaced my R/R in hopes of saving the stator just before I embarked on a long ride. So far so good, I'm just wondering if it will prevent a stator failure in the future??
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post #151 of 413 (permalink) Old 06-10-2014, 10:14 PM
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stator failed on trip to dragon

Last week my stator failed at under 18000 miles and over 600 miles from home, on day three of a long planned week long vacation. However, as luck would have it, I was not alone. I was riding with three friends and we had lots of tools. Finding a new replacement, at a dealer, was always next week. Then we got a line on a bike junkyard, checked what they had but no luck, but while going to the junkyard we passed a powersports outlet so on the way back we stopped. They only sell Chinese made side by sides, but they do have a few stators we can look at. We picked one that looked like it could fit if modified but not plug in. A stop at Advance Auto yielded a soldering gun and heat shrink. We grafted the wiring harness and cut off a large metal wire support. Installed it and got 14.6 volts at 4000 rpm, trip saved..... Rode over three hundred miles just fine but the output under load at night was dismal. Blowing the horn with high beam on dims the lights, but it worked.

New one on the way
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post #152 of 413 (permalink) Old 06-11-2014, 11:16 PM
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chinese stator

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Originally Posted by invader View Post
So the stator was from a Chinese side-by-side with a Yamaha 660 single engine knockoff?
Not sure which one it was off of, They had four of them and the one we took wasn't the largest. We simply chose the one dimensionally the same and three phase. We later found that the one we took was wound wye and not delta like our original is. Each lead leaving the oem stator terminates to two conductors at the windings the Chinese only one, I figure its maybe 60% capacity at best but it did get the job done. I am going to keep it as a emergency spare, I know it will get me going again if needed.
If I come across the receipt I will post a part number if there is one, I think it just said stator and cash sale.

Well it looks like the receipt is MIA, waiting for the brown truck with the new parts, still running the stator till then.

Last edited by lowflyer43; 06-18-2014 at 12:04 AM.
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post #153 of 413 (permalink) Old 06-19-2014, 03:45 PM
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Went for a ride today, monitoring my LED "voltage monitor" fairly closely. It started out green, then flickered OFF (NO light of any color!) then ON a few times, then the "OFF" cycle became more predominant.

Then it would start being yellow (11.8 to 11.5v), and occasionally red (11.2 >), but still going OFF now and then, and sometimes flickering green (13.2v), so I turned back, heading home, hoping I'd be able to get home w/out pushing. Total ride was 130 kms, 80 miles. (I removed the 10A fuse for the headlight before the ride to give me a bit more volts for the FI, in the event I needed the 'room'.)

The last mile to home the light stayed green, so as soon as I got into the garage, I shut the bike down and got my VOM to check the battery. It came up 13.31v (which is where it SHOULD be!), and now after about an hour it's 13.03v which seems to indicate that it was fully charged.

I ordered the Compufire R/R and I'm going to order a stator, and put them in once I get them.

Any thoughts from you electrical experts?

Ed
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post #154 of 413 (permalink) Old 06-19-2014, 03:50 PM
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I'm no expert. But tightening the LED connections and replacing the 5 year old battery solved things for me (I already have the Compufire R/R and replacement stator recommended by Invader/ others).
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post #155 of 413 (permalink) Old 06-20-2014, 05:12 PM
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I checked the alternator output, and the regulator, and everything checks OK. So I went for an hour and a half ride yesterday, monitoring the LED - and it stayed green.

When this happened I had just washed the bike. I wonder....
"....

Yesterday I 'aborted' a ride to meet up w/ guys I used to fly w/, on their annual ride, and when I got home, after checking the volts (13.3 or so), I put the VOM into a saddlebag and then later I went to meet them about 25 miles north of here in Vernon.

My indicator was putting on a REAL light-show, but STILL 13 v when I got to their hotel, and still at 13v when I got home later. Had to go down town today to get some "stuff", so I checked the voltage MANY times - ALWAYS in the 12.8 to 13.3v range, so I'm now of the opinion that my LED voltage indicator is NOT waterproof, and that when I washed the bike I trashed it. I'm ordering another indicator, but THIS one will be waterproof for sure!

I've already ordered the Compufire R/R and new stator, so I'll put the R/R in, check how the stator looks, and keep it for "whenever" if mine isn't cooked yet.

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post #156 of 413 (permalink) Old 06-20-2014, 11:34 PM
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http://www.powersportparts.net/Compu..._p/4578340.htm

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0035U7LRM/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=33825990835&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18355128288457858268&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_1ocsr9lwr_e

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post #157 of 413 (permalink) Old 06-21-2014, 05:48 PM
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Shindengen now has a series regulator, the SH-775. It regulates by cutting off the stator current instead of shunting it to ground so the stator's not running at full output continuously.

Kits are available here: http://roadstercycle.com/index.htm
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post #158 of 413 (permalink) Old 06-21-2014, 06:28 PM
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Who has the best price on the compu-fire regulator? I would really like to avoid another stator failure, is $170.00 the average price?
$162.25 + shipping (about $190) thru Amazon.

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post #159 of 413 (permalink) Old 06-22-2014, 12:05 AM
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Shindengen now has a series regulator, the SH-775. It regulates by cutting off the stator current instead of shunting it to ground so the stator's not running at full output continuously.

Kits are available here: http://roadstercycle.com/index.htm
Shindengen R/R made in Japan.

The Super Series Kit SH775 for $139.95 + $5.00 S+H is perfect.


Series type regulator is also called an open regulator, as opposed to a short (shunt type) regulator.

https://www.shindengen.co.jp/product_e/electro/reg.html

Last edited by invader; 06-22-2014 at 12:12 AM.
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post #160 of 413 (permalink) Old 06-29-2014, 10:18 PM
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headlight acting weird

I installed a new stator from Ricks, and a new series r/r from Roadstercycle.
I connected the r/r stator pigtail to the wires that went to the old r/r plug, and ran the r/r output wires direct to the battery so the lighting tap is still in the stator circuit. The brown wire from the ignition that went to the old r/r is not connected, when running voltage output is steady at 14.2 volts as it should be and everything is working the same except the headlight, now the headlight is on when you turn on the key. I feel the brown wire is the culprit but has anyone else experienced this?

The problem is not the brown wire..if I remove the fuse in the wiring between the r/r and the battery, the problem goes away. I will add a relay triggered off the headlight and all should be good.

Last edited by lowflyer43; 07-03-2014 at 06:58 PM.
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