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Burnt Stator / Versys 650 / Stator Testing/ Stator Failure Series Regulator

129K views 601 replies 90 participants last post by  Gerinemo 
#1 ·
I checked the manual before posting, not very informative if you don't know anything about it. The most accurate test is what you have already done, and it sounds like you have shorted turns, however it wouldn't hurt to try this again. What you need to realize is this is a 3 phase power source, the white wires need to be identified as white A, white B and white C. , make a drawing of the quick connector and designate on the drawing, and mark the readings down in accordance to your drawing.Measure A to B , B to C and C to A. You should have three readings all very close, like within a couple volts, and as a side note, idle RPM is fine since this is the AC output open circuit voltage, manual says something like 42 volts at 4000 rpm. If one reading is considerably lower then the stator is screwed, you can test this with a ohm meter with the motor off, check the same three and mark down the ohm readings, IMO this is a very inaccurate test. The manual says 0.18 to 0.27 ohms, most test leads of meters are greater than this, only advantage would be to prove that it is open.
:cheers:
 
#253 ·
I certainly wouldn't tell anybody what they should take with them on a trip to remote areas, so I will simply say what my approach would be.

First a disclaimer: my stator failed this past summer at around 44000 km. When I researched this thread after it failed, I counted around 35 reports of failure on this forum. More reports since then.

I replaced the stator and plan to replace the rectifier with the Polaris unit as soon as I can find one here (Canada). The US dealers will not ship here due to agreement with Polaris not to ship to Canada. In the meantime I rode until snow and cold arrived. My OEM set-up lasted for seven years and I don't think that the replacement stator will fail anytime soon, but eventually it will fail again, as I believe they all will fail. It's just a matter of time and also, I think, ambient temperature. The failure rate in the UK is much lower, an admittedly unscientific opinion based on the UK Versys forum postings and some back-and-fourth I've had with them, in which I suggested that the climate is much more moderate in Britain. We have very hot summer weather in North America and extreme heat is what kills the stator. The wiring melted on mine. Now granted, the problem lies in the R/R as our resident Wizard has explained so well, but the symptom is an overheating stator which leads to a dead stator.

If you are still with me after that extensive aside Wingfart, here is what I would do if I were to leave on a trip to Peru and was concerned about the stator. First, I would pull the cover and inspect the stator visually, looking at the wiring looking for signs of over heating. Test the R/R and stator for all the things that One Wizard mentions.

If all tested and inspected well I would probably still take the following approach: purchase a new stator or a Polaris R/R to take with me. The Compufire does (apparently) draw ambient current when ignition is off and doesn't fit well on our V, so I don't want to go there. I would get the Polaris unit or a new stator. The R/R is lighter and smaller.

It would not be a very big deal to change the stator on the road, but a battery might be a hard thing to find in the Andes.

Read all advice and decide for yourself what will give you peace of mind. There is nothing worse than being on the road in remote places with nagging thoughts about reliability poking one in the back of brain. :goodluck:
 
#254 ·
I'm convinced that the stator will fail at some point, but if we look at the data... It's a crapshot to know when it will fail. Some fail very early and some last over 60,000 miles! Physical inspection won't tell you a whole lot either, unless it is already burnt, which can also be checked with a multimeter.

Not knowing when it will fail, and the extreme variance between failures, make "preventive" replacements even riskier. You could be taking out one of those stators that were good for 60K miles and putting in one of the stators that won't live past 10K miles. Just knowing that it will fail is not enough. we know that the engines will wear out too, but we know we can expect 100K out of them if we take care of them, that's why people are not tearing down their engines just to make sure they are still fine.

I'm at 33K on my Versys, I'm not popping off that cover "to take a look". I have a voltage meter and a replacement stator on standby.
 
#255 ·
They can be a challenge to diagnose too! There is no point replacing one before it fails. Mine seemed to fail gradually.
 
#256 ·
.Mine seemed to fail gradually.
Mine went quickly, leaving a mess of blackened wiring and one sad Smiley astride his dead V on the side of the road. What a way to ruin a good ride.
 

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#257 ·
I stator on standby.
That's "my problem," I can't get mine to burn out....:mad:

Original owner, just rolled 59,000 miles and I am on the original stator (actually, original everything).
I have just about 4 months left on the 5 year extended warranty I purchased when I got the bike...

I have been waiting (and actually hoping) for the stator to go before the warranty is up...I expected it to go sometime in the 50,000 K range....
The starter is beginning to act up too....:(

No real long trips planned, mostly commuting miles with roadside assistance and an expiring warranty....sort of a strange situation to be in hoping your bike breaks....:confused:
 
#258 · (Edited by Moderator)
>:)See Post 220


I joined the "ranks" yesterday. Initially I had one of those LED lights that indicates battery voltage by changing color, but I upgraded to one that shows the actual voltage in an LED display.

My voltage has been varying from 14.1 down to (occasionally...) 12.x, so I decided to install the stator I bought a year or so back (insurance...!) from RMstators in Quebec.

First comment - on the box it says MADE IN CHINA.

Second comment - some say you don't need to drain your oil.... Well, mine "self-drained" ...:censored:...about a quart of Mobil1, so it's probably better to drain it in advance (plus - keeps your floor cleaner...:rolleyes:...).

Third comment - when I installed it, the wires that have to be 'captured' under that little "L" shaped "ATERNATOR LEAD HOLDING PLATE" were attached at about 11 o'clock instead of 12 o'clock, so would NOT go under that plate. I kept checking to see IF I was missing something, perhaps a different mounting...? :huh:
Finally I cut enough of the thread holding it to one of the 'towers' that I could move it over one, then properly get it held down by that plate. (I agonized before cutting, but it's fairly obvious that the wires HAVE to be held down, out of the way of the spinning rotor.)

Got it all 'buttoned-up', added more oil, started it and saw 14.x V on my indicator....:thumb: - :thumb:

I went for a ride today, monitoring the volts, which varied between 14.3 and 13.3, and figure I'm OK, altho' I expect I'll install the Compufire R/R soon.

I took pics which I'll work on, then add to this when done.
 
#259 ·
It Turns Out That This Stator was Fine and was later sold in 2016 , the problem was the Regulator Shunt Type
Onewizard SEE POST 220

Here are the pics I took while changing the stator, w/ descriptions below each (IF they come through...).



They didn't come thru w/ the pics. First one of the GREEN HORNET w/ plastics off.



The crash-bars rotated out of the way, and the front left engine mount/skid-plate attachment under the bike.



Here's what happens IF you remove the cover w/ oil in the bike (AFTER I put a container to catch SOME of the oil...).



The cover removed, gears staying w/ it. Good idea to put the gears into the "engine" side.



Here's the old stator, bolts removed. Note the position of the wires.



Top view of old stator.



Bottom view of old stator - note the stock wires are held in the PROPER location by that metal plate and philips screw.



Here's the new stator, but the wires are NOT properly located, coming out too far CCW from the correct location to be 'captured' under the metal plate.

I didn't take any pics of re-aligning the wires after I cut the attachment threads, or putting it all back together.
 
#260 ·
...I wonder if you'd have lost the oil doing the R&R on the rear stand? Probably better to just drain down the sump though. Is the replacement a stock item, or an upgrade? wondering about the wiring issue.
Mine just went at 51k miles, actually discovered after a service so fresh oil in the bike. Breaking down at the shop is pretty convenient considering the alternatives. Now waiting on a stator from a donor Ninja650 salvage bike.
I lost the oil ON a rear stand! You just can't see it, as I got in 'tight' for pics.

:eek::yeahsmile:BTW - looks like the problem was NOT my stator - :goodluck::thanx:riding today I'm getting generally around 13.6v, SOMETIMES 14.3, then back to 12.x when at idle, so I've been keeping revs at about 1600 for 13.7.

My COMPUFIRE R/R is planned to be installed early next week....

:(
 
#261 ·
changing over to a CompuFire R/R...

After coffee (and my morning walk...) I got busy on the GREEN HORNET, taking stuff off preparatory to removing the defective (???) regulator, and installing the CompuFire. I EVEN removed the gas-tank (that I'd filled up yesterday...:rolleyes:...), which is NOT necessary.

You can access the two bolts that hold the Kawi R/R in (10mm socket), and once the rear-side-panel is off, you can undo the R/R mount: one bolt behind the frame tube, then reach thru and behind to remove the other holding it, both 'allen' bolts. (My plan was to 'fabricate' a mount, HOPEFULLY aligning the CompuFire lengthwise as the stocker...:goodidea:...)



Once the two 10mm bolts are out, as well as the two socket capscrews, you can manipulate and pull it thru the triangular hole between the frame tubes, then disconnect the electrical plug on its rear.



And here's what you'll end up w/ on your workbench.



Looking at the stock mount, I figured I could use a piece of scrap, drill two 15/62" holes matching the mounts on the CompuFire, then drill a couple of 1/8" holes in the scrap AND the stock mount, to put two self-tapping #8 x 1/2 screws in, holding the NEW to the OLD. Here's the scrap drying from a bit of painting....



and the stock mount, drilled to accept the #8 screws.



Here's the CompuFire, ready to be attached, c/w the male three socket plug that came w/ my new stator.



I wrapped electrical tape around the ORIGINAL plug for the stator-to-R/R, leaving it in place, IN-CASE....



I also wrapped the 6-plug connection that USED to be attached to the stock R/R, first w/ electricians tape, then duct-tape over that, again - IN-CASE....



Here's the stock mount w/ my (professionally...;)...) painted scrap piece attached w/ the #8 screws,



and here w/ the CompuFire held by two 1/4 x 1" UNC bolts and locknuts, a piece of "high density foam" between it and the scrap.



It takes a little manipulating to pass the mounted R/R thru the frame triangle, but - it's 'doable' - and you can see the foam, tho' it is 90 degrees from where it WILL end up.



Here it is, attached, plugged into the stator, the rest of the wiring to do tomorrow, tho' I've started on the (+) lead w/ 40 amp fuse.



I spent a bit of time today researching how to put the relay into the system, so I HOPE I've "got it".

For those in the know (One Wizard...) - my plan is to run the R/R (+) wire thru the fuse DIRECTLY to the battery (+), and route the (-) thru the relay to the battery (-), the relay 'triggered' by the tail-light (-) wire.

Does that sound right...?:huh:

:thanx:
 
#262 ·
Ed, I'm curious why you used foam under the R/R? It is a heat sink after all, and can use the plate to dump excessive heat.

I will post later on the install of my Polaris R/R. Onewizard did an amazing job and I will post photos too. Just a little too busy at the moment.

A big public thank you to onewizard. I am an electrical moron and could not have done it without your help, Glen, thanks again.
 
#263 ·
failure...

I didn't run the wires or the relay as I said I would in the last post. Thinking about it, I thought that the (+) wire should enter the wiring harness, not go directly to the battery terminal.

I took the 6-pin connector that had been attached to the stock regulator, cut the heavier of the two WHITE wires, then I took the (+) lead from the CompuFire, put a 40amp fuse in the line and soldered it to the WHITE wire.

After conversing w/ a neighbor who (I think...) knows more about electrics than I do, I decided that I would wire the 40A relay like this:

pin 86 - use the running lights (+) wire to trigger the relay;
pin 85 - to chassis ground;
pin 30 - attach the (-) wire from the CompuFire here; and
pin 87A - attach to chassis ground.

I put my battery back in, turned ON the key, waited till the FI light went out (showing 12.9V), then started the engine. My display showed 12.2V, so I revved it a bit - NO change - 12.2V....:thumbdown:

I shut it off, took the battery out, and here I am - looking for advice.

Anyone? (The ONE bright spot is that I didn't "let the smoke out", and I really need some help....)
 
#264 ·
Ed, I'm curious why you used foam under the R/R? It is a heat sink after all, and can use the plate to dump excessive heat.
I put the foam in as an anti-vibration damper, plus to isolate the base of the CompuFire from the heads of the two self-tapping screws.

Maybe I don't need it...?
 
#265 ·
I don't see any benefit. The r/r is designed as an encased block of heat dissipating metal, with heat cooling fins, and the base mount transfers heat to the plate where it is mounted?

If your concern is the self-tapping screws holding power then you might consider a thru-bolt and nut?
 
#267 ·
Got some bad news, I am in the middle of some other projects. I can tell you that once I dig into this, I am pretty sure all relays can be eliminated, for either regulator. the foam is going to cause huge problems.You will need to go through my post on mounting, but I used the rear mounting bolt and added something. Again busy working on two other projects so no time .
What I can say is on the Polaris, you need two 10 gauge female spade stakons and 3 of the 14 gauge female stakons, insulated or not. Cut off OEM plug leaving 1 inch of wire in case you want to but splice back to OEM.
The drain on the battery is from the headlight relay trying to switch on, this is a latch circuit off the 3 phase stator wire, need to locate the tap and relocate relay switch wire to BRAKE LIGHT, I will try and come up with a solid this is how you do it by early next week. This will allow me to remove my relay as well so I have incentive to do this.
The headlight is switched on once the stator produces 12 volts on one phase of the 3 phase wires, once on it latches on, so if you stalled the bike, the headlight would remain on, if you keyed off then on again, the headlight would be off until the stator produced 12 volts, I hope this helps. TTYL:goodluck:
 
#268 · (Edited)
***************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************


I didn't run the wires or the relay as I said I would in the last post. Thinking about it, I thought that the (+) wire should enter the wiring harness, not go directly to the battery terminal.

I took the 6-pin connector that had been attached to the stock regulator, cut the heavier of the two WHITE wires, then I took the (+) lead from the CompuFire, put a 40amp fuse in the line and soldered it to the WHITE wire.

After conversing w/ a neighbor who (I think...) knows more about electrics than I do, I decided that I would wire the 40A relay like this:

pin 86 - use the running lights (+) wire to trigger the relay;
pin 85 - to chassis ground;
pin 30 - attach the (-) wire from the CompuFire here; and
pin 87A - attach to chassis ground.

I put my battery back in, turned ON the key, waited till the FI light went out (showing 12.9V), then started the engine. My display showed 12.2V, so I revved it a bit - NO change - 12.2V....:thumbdown:

I shut it off, took the battery out, and here I am - looking for advice.

Anyone? (The ONE bright spot is that I didn't "let the smoke out", and I really need some help....)
OK you help me I help you:yeahsmile:

I assume you have the gas tank on, so I am too late. I say too late in that the manual shows the relay box mounted under the gas tank, the wire I am looking for needs to be a tap connection by Kawasaki, and it needs to be either before the relay box or right at the relay box. I need someone to trace the 3 phase wire from the connector to the regulator. I am going to guess that within 12 inches you will find a tap off of one wire, wire is black and goes to the relay box. This is the trigger for the headlight, I need to know were that joint is, as the 3 phase wire continues to the regulator. I have a full gas tank and my compufire regulator works fine, however I am so close to a solution for everyone on this forum for using either Polaris or Compufire, WITHOUT A RELAY , and less than 3 ma drain.
 
#269 · (Edited)
I really need some help..NO SH***T..)
OK I see the problem, 87A should be 87, you have it connected to the normally closed contact , to prove this, disconnect the wire to 86 running lights, and start bike. If this works move the 87A to terminal 87. Follow my previous posts, I would like to know were the tap off the 3 phase stator is that goes to the headlight relay. Also I question if anything is really wrong with your old stator. This may be reaching but the white blue positive wire goes to the main fuse, did you check if you have 12VDC on this wire, this is with the bike OFF, this is live all the time, the one you soldered?
 
#279 ·
...This may be reaching but the white blue positive wire goes to the main fuse, did you check if you have 12VDC on this wire, this is with the bike OFF, this is live all the time, the one you soldered?...
I just checked this via the "back-door".

Between the white wire and the regulator wire I soldered, I put an inline fuse, so I pulled the fuse, then ran a 'continuity' check w/ my Ohm-meter back to the white wire, and it's OK - about .4 Ohms (and infinity on the 'leg' going from the fuse) - NO change w/ ignition switched ON or OFF, so I'm taking that as proof that it will carry 12v + all the time.

(I kept the battery out of the circuit till I sort things out.)
 
#270 ·
Looking at your old stator, I question if there is anything wrong with it.
THAT is what I think too, so I'll probably keep IT as my spare.

(This all started when I began getting voltage indications that were different from what I was used to seeing, along w/ ALL the "burnt stators" on this forum.)
 
#271 ·
Looking at your old stator, I question if there is anything wrong with it.
THAT is what I think too, so I'll probably keep IT as my spare.

(This all started when I began getting voltage indications that were different from what I was used to seeing, along w/ ALL the "burnt stators" on this forum.)
 
#273 ·
onewizard - the tank goes ON, the tank comes OFF. My plan is to get back in there and look for that 'tap' for you, tomorrow, as I have a meeting this evening.

MANY thanks for answering my "cry-for-help"....:clap:
Thanks Ed, I will check back tomorrow, if possible, try and take a picture, with if possible, items that can be seen with the tank on, just so I know were to look.
In your case you could use the socket that goes to the OEM regulator, just that the connector uses .110 spade terminals, no terminal manufacturer makes 10 gauge stakons for that. IMHO the terminals used on the regulator are undersize, especially the output.
So what I suspect you will find is one of the stator wires going to and from the headlight relay, OR a tap off one of the stator wires very close to the headlight relay, the wire coming off should be solid black, according to the manual.
Since you are going to the trouble, I will give you a option, post what you find and wait for my response, or disconnect the wire that goes to the headlight relay. This wire will then be extended to your brake light wire, or your choice, its only purpose is to initially turn on the headlight after starting the motor, it latches on after that.
Why the brake light, say you want to start the bike and let it warm up, guess what, the headlight remains off until the first time you touch the brake. Say your stuck in traffic, turn the bike off, restart and until you touch the brake the light is off, why bother? I run 65 watt oshram lamps, when the fan comes on at idle, I go into the red , alternator can't keep up @ 1350 1400 RPM.
Once I know were the tap is, I will remove it and check if the compufire has any drain on it with the key off, my guess is it won't, I can then remove my relays and update wiring changes for everyone.
:thanx:
 
#274 ·
FYI the Polaris regulates to 14.2 VDC, however it was designed for cold weather use, if you are using extra loads like I have, I would advise using the Compufire. If you have standard loads or have even reduced loads by way of changing over to LED lamps, then the Polaris is by far the best way to go, direct bolt in, identical footprint and the spade connectors are real BEEFY, 1/4 male spade connectors.If it takes more than 60 minutes to change, you must be drinking beer. No special connector required, 3 female spade crimps for 14 gauge and two for 10 gauge, a bit of tape and a bit of silicone. Check Smiley's post.
 
#275 ·
Here are the photos of onewizard attaching the wiring from the RM stator to a Polaris R/R. The wiring loom is oem, the female stakons are 10 gauge. The whole set up is designed to be removable while being absolutely waterproof.

Notes on photos. The first photo shows the stakons and the brown wire with the reverse tape procedure to ensure remove ability. Check out post #291 for explanation.

In the second photo note the brown wire (end is taped) tucked back into the original loom. It is the only unused wire.

The next two photos show the application of clear silicone, followed by (reverse) wrap of tape to hold all in place until cured and also provide additional insulation and protection of the wires.

The second last photo shows the completed unit, while the last photo shows a thin application of heat sink compound to the base of the R/R. This fills in any voids in the metal of the mounting plate and aids heat transfer.

The Polaris R/R mounts exactly like the oem using the same bolts as stock. Very nice. No relays were used, I will leave it to onewizard to explain why.

Thank you once again Glen, you are a wizard indeed!
Thought I would add something, and I am not sure if you took a picture of the OEM plug to show a wire length left to butt splice in case you want to switch back when you sell the bike. If possible you could add that, just to give people a idea how much wire to leave, also never took a completed picture. People can see that very little needs to be removed to change over.
So what I intended to add is the yellow stakons are 10 gauge and are the positive ( white with blue tracer and negative yellow with black tracer). The blue stakons are T&B 14 gauge female spade , both are 1/4 inch female spade.
Last thing is that the Polaris will not output unless it is connected to 12 volts DC, that is if you have the 3 phase connected and want to check output of the DC ----------won't happen, it requires a correct polarity DC input to fire the gate pulses. So if you bump started your bike, and the battery was really bad, there is a possibility that your bike may not run for very long, I just don't know were the cutoff voltage is , were the gate pulses stop.
Something I could do with another Polaris regulator in the winter, hook up one of my regulated power supplies and see what minimum voltage is required to fire the regulator. I have all the equipment to do this, only thing is, who is going to try and ride with a screwed battery, taking a chance on destroying a alternator and regulator?
:interesting:
 
#276 ·
Thought I would add something, and I am not sure if you took a picture of the OEM plug to show a wire length left to butt splice in case you want to switch back when you sell the bike. If possible you could add that, just to give people a idea how much wire to leave, also never took a completed picture. People can see that very little needs to be removed to change over.
Here's the wire loom as it was after you cut it off right in front of the oem plug. It shows the taped brown wire and the excess peeled-back tape from the loom which was later trimmed off.
Also the installed Polaris, difficult to show, the second view is a rear shot from the wheel looking forward.
 

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#277 ·
Here's the wire loom as it was after you cut it off right in front of the oem plug. It shows the taped brown wire and the excess peeled-back tape from the loom which was later trimmed off.
Also the installed Polaris, difficult to show, the second view is a rear shot from the wheel looking forward.
What I meant was the plug that is attached to the Kawasaki regulator, about 1 inch of wire, going by my memory, which isn't always as accurate as a tape measure.
 
#278 ·
Just as a FYI - here's the pic of the wires posted by smiley



and here are the wires on my '09 - note the TWO white wires (NO trace), black w/ yellow trace, and three blacks



so I'm making an assumption that the "brown" wire you have is one of the white wires I have (the smaller gauge one), but I will check whether the larger white is HOT w/ ignition OFF.
 
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