Burnt Stator/ Stator Testing - Kawasaki Versys Forum
Technical Discussion Topics related to Technical Issues

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 310 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
gti20vturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 927
Arrow Burnt Stator/ Stator Testing

FYI Members Go To How To Forum for Detail






How many burnt stators have we had on this board or have you heard of any from owners not on this board? Is Kawasaki helping at all in regard to warranty? Did you have any warning signs of the issue?

ST1300, Versys, SV650S

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Clean your shields with this stuff!!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by onewizard; 12-15-2016 at 08:08 AM.
gti20vturbo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 310 (permalink) Old 08-27-2011, 02:25 AM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,436
The regulator/rectifier part # change to 21066-0705 (replaces 21066-1127) is listed for all model years. No idea if and how it's any different.
The regulator/rectifier firstly rectifies the AC coming from the stator back to pulsating DC using a set of Diodes (allows current to flow in one direction). The rectifier then limits this voltage from the 50-60V pulsating DC by "wasting" power using zener diodes. More current draw after the reg/rec increases current flowing in the windings of the stator, which will increase the temperature of the stator and the reg/rec as well.
Stator failing from burnt shorted winding wires is primarily caused by heat, mostly with stock shunt type R/R in favor of a more expensive series type R/R, and vibration damage to the winding wires' thin varnish insulation... Engine oil does provide some cooling to the stator. Oil temperature is a bit lower with synthetic oil, and also provides more cooling to the stator when kept at the full mark.
invader is offline  
post #3 of 310 (permalink) Old 08-27-2011, 02:43 AM
Super Moderator
 
kiwi 41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 44.24'S 171.15'E Timaru, NewZealand
Posts: 8,578
Send a message via Skype™ to kiwi 41
Thanks Invader, I am learning all the time, keep oil up to full mark and synthetic oil will reduce risk of stator failure. A R/R failure increases current which increases temp of stator which can result in a BBQ stator. Just repeating what you said so i get it through my Kiwi brain
kiwi 41 is offline  
 
post #4 of 310 (permalink) Old 08-27-2011, 02:48 AM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi 41 View Post
A R/R failure increases current which increases temp of stator which can result in a BBQ stator.
I never said that... More current draw after the reg/rec increases current flowing in the windings of the stator, which will increase the temperature of the stator and the reg/rec as well.
In other words, as you increase current draw to power lights, heated gear, and electric powered accessories, current flowing in the windings of the stator increases thus raising its (and the R/R) operating temperature.

EDIT: With stock shunt type R/R, stator is always operating at maximum output and shunting any unused current to ground... Compu-Fire's series type R/R #55402 draws no more current than neccesary from the stator, thus reducing its load and operating temperature... More info further in this thread in post #13+.
invader is offline  
post #5 of 310 (permalink) Old 08-27-2011, 05:36 AM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,436
The regulator is protecting your bulbs, etc from overload. Bulbs would burn out and stop drawing current before stator overheats... A sound battery with a high cold cranking amp rating kept well charged up with a battery tender reduces load on the stator which has to recharge the battery after operating starter. Stators run cooler with a sound and well charged battery, and also from less current drawn. If the battery is not building up normal resistance as it accepts a charge, the generator keeps charging battery at higher than normal rate. Stator then overheats and eventually fails. Battery charging current should gradually decrease and taper off to acceptable level after engine starts.

Stator failures from winding wires shorting out on the core through their insulation are caused by a combination of age, heat and vibration.
invader is offline  
post #6 of 310 (permalink) Old 08-27-2011, 06:08 AM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,436
The regulator/rectifier connectors can oxidize and corrode from water and salt exposure. Keep the connectors clean and protected with dielectric compound/grease. A rear wheel hugger or mud flap/splash guard also helps. R/R should also be well vented for cooling.

Batteries degrade from sulphation buildup on the lead plates, as sulphur seperates from water upon discharge. Lead-acid batteries discharge more quickly when warm and in higher ambient temperatures. Keeping it fully charged without overcharging it maintains its efficiency while extending service life.
invader is offline  
post #7 of 310 (permalink) Old 08-27-2011, 06:17 AM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,436
The Versys isn't bad compared to many Honda CBR's and Ducati's stator for example. Some burn out a couple stators per season, having to replace it at every couple thousand miles.
invader is offline  
post #8 of 310 (permalink) Old 08-27-2011, 07:32 AM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,436
Actually, a series type R/R does not require the stator to flow as much current, and has 1/3 of the power dissipation compared to shunt type (like OE or MOSFET based) R/R.

http://www.posplayr.100megsfree3.com...R_Tutorial.pdf

Cooler running stator: http://badweatherbikers.com/buell/me...tml?1312566505

Lowest price I found for a Compu-Fire 55402 R/R (40 Amp 3-stage charging system):

http://www.powersportparts.net/Compu.../tr60-3337.htm

http://www.debrix.com/Voltage-Regula...f55402-mca.htm

invader is offline  
post #9 of 310 (permalink) Old 08-28-2011, 01:06 AM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,436
The fried stator is also caused by a combination of a change in the strength of magnets used in the flywheels. 98-03 Aprilia's rarely if ever burn out their stators like this. The problem started occurring with 2004 and up models. Denso, the supplier of the flywheels, increased the power of the permanent magnets when the flywheel was redesigned in 2004. The increased magnetic flux creates more power in the stator windings compared to the previous rotor on the 98-03 RSV and 02-05 Tuono. They also had some flywheels with varying magnet strengths at different points which pulsed the stator causing excessive heat cycles.

The stock R/R on all years is a shunt type that grounds excess power, essentially creating a dead short, keeping the stator at full load at all times. This excess power being shunted to earth is dissipated as heat in the windings of the rotor, and to a lessor extent in the control circuitry of the R/R. The extra power of the newer flywheel creates enough extra heat in the stator to cause it to burn up over time. Denso also supplied flywheels to Honda and other Japanese (Kawasaki), some claim with out mentioning that the magnets were stronger. When Honda started getting burnt stators, they traced the problem back to the flywheels and issued a recall and refitted the affected bikes with a flywheel of lessor magnetic power. Aprilia has chosen to ignore the issue, perhaps because this does not usually occur until after the warranty has expired. One possible solution is to replace the R/R with a series type unit. Series R/Rs open the charging circuit to deal excess power taking load off the stator instead of shunting excess power to earth and fully loading the stator at all times. Opening the circuit and taking load off the stator reduces the heat produced prolong the life of the stator.

One of the common upgrades that you see on 98-03 Aprilias is using a Shindengen MOSFET R/R as an upgrade to the original SCR shunt R/R. While more efficient because it is MOSFET instead of SCR, the Shindengen R/R is still a shunt type (not a series) and still dumps all excess power to ground. Since it is more efficient than the SCR type and does not get as hot, that much more heat needs to be dissipated by the stator.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/i...ies-regulator/
invader is offline  
post #10 of 310 (permalink) Old 08-28-2011, 02:26 AM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBD34 View Post
Michael, My stator was history at 27,000 miles, I did not replace the regulator, still running the original with 57,000 miles on the Versys. Invader, great posts as usual, is it possible that the lack of an oil cooler contributes to the stator problems? I was riding hard in hot weather, anyone else?

Gary
I don't think we need an oil cooler. A normal operating oil temperature of at least 212F is already hard to achieve without ThermoBob's radiator bypass... Are you running any additional electrical accessories, and are you still on original battery?
I really like the series type R/R to reduce current draw on stator and effectively lower its heat output, while wasting less engine power.
invader is offline  
post #11 of 310 (permalink) Old 08-28-2011, 11:00 AM
Member
 
miguelito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: South of the border
Posts: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBD34 View Post
Michael, My stator was history at 27,000 miles, I did not replace the regulator, still running the original with 57,000 miles on the Versys. Invader, great posts as usual, is it possible that the lack of an oil cooler contributes to the stator problems? I was riding hard in hot weather, anyone else?

Gary
FWIW, I was riding pretty hard in hot weather a lot of the time. I also have not replaced any other parts of the system, and actually had the stator re-wrapped rather than replacing it with a new one. I've traveled about 7k miles since the repair without any issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
Are you running any additional electrical accessories, and are you still on original battery?
I really like the series type R/R to reduce current draw on stator and effectively lower its heat output, while wasting less engine power.
I'm not running any electrical accessories, (all stock electrical system).

Michael
Always be wary of any helpful item that weighs less than its operating manual.
- Terry Pratchett

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
miguelito is offline  
post #12 of 310 (permalink) Old 08-29-2011, 01:03 AM
Member
 
hikewithmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBD34 View Post
Michael, My stator was history at 27,000 miles, I did not replace the regulator, still running the original with 57,000 miles on the Versys. Invader, great posts as usual, is it possible that the lack of an oil cooler contributes to the stator problems? I was riding hard in hot weather, anyone else?

Gary
Mine went toast at about 33,000 miles. I am half speculating it is the heated grips I had installed with a new handlebar. The controller is acting correctly, it should allow me to select up and down temperatures, but I have to cycle all the way up, if I want anything down I have to turn them off and then back on. The indication LEDs only work for one temperature also. Don't get it, last set of Oxfords were rock solid. I suppose I should see what the warranty is on them now that I have a couple weeks of idle time.

Sorry, bit of topic, but yea, mine got mildly fried and went caput at 33k.

Kawasaki KLE650 Versys Forum
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
hikewithmike is offline  
post #13 of 310 (permalink) Old 08-30-2011, 04:49 PM
Member
 
Ivan V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Balkan
Posts: 840
Great info Invader.

A couple of bikes (20-30,000km) had burnt stators that I know off. I've seen a few reports on the UK forum as well.

I suspect what contributes to the damaged stator is falls on the left side because bike lands on the stator cover (among other things).
I also never liked how rectifier is exposed to the dirt and water thrown by the rear tire.
Ivan V is offline  
post #14 of 310 (permalink) Old 08-31-2011, 01:09 AM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan V View Post
Great info Invader.

A couple of bikes (20-30,000km) had burnt stators that I know off. I've seen a few reports on the UK forum as well.

I suspect what contributes to the damaged stator is falls on the left side because bike lands on the stator cover (among other things).
I also never liked how rectifier is exposed to the dirt and water thrown by the rear tire.


Yeah, the magnets are affected upon hard falls directly on the generator cover to which the stator is solid mounted to... Some of us added a mud guard (I made my own) or rear wheel hugger to protect the regulator/rectifier and connectors.
invader is offline  
post #15 of 310 (permalink) Old 09-02-2011, 11:48 AM
Member
 
miguelito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: South of the border
Posts: 700
I was wondering about the falls to the left side, (I dropped mine on the left, with minor scratches to the stator cover within a couple of thousand miles of its failure). I also found this while kicking around ADV regarding sources for rewinding stators:

Stator Rewinding
If and when the need arises in the future to have a stator replaced, my plans are to have a Honda stator rewound by a competent and reputable company specializing in rewinding stators. Several such sources are listed below.

Custom Rewind
Custom Rewind in Birmingham, Alabama has earned an excellent reputation among CX/GL owners for their high quality work in rewinding stators. I've heard nothing but praise for their work.
Their website appears to be new but they have been in business for quite a while. The preferred method of communication with them is by phone at 205-798-7282 or toll free at 800-798-7282.
Their mailing address is:

Custom Rewind
2014 Pratt Highway
Birmingham, AL 35214

West Country Windings
West Country Windings is another company that has earned the praise of many customers for their excellent quality rewinds. Many UK CX/GL owners have used their rewound stators with absolutely no problems.
They can be reached at West Country Windings, 79 City Business Park, Somerset Place, Stoke, Plymouth, Devon PL3 4BB UK. Telephone 01752 560906.

Rick's Motorsport Electrics
Rick's Motorsport Electrics is another source for quality rewinds.
Rick's rewound a stator for another bike I've been working on. The work appears to be of high quality as can be seen in the photos below. Unfortunately the bike has not had enough miles put on it yet to make any kind of reliability assessment/endorsement, but I very much like what I've seen.



__________________

Michael
Always be wary of any helpful item that weighs less than its operating manual.
- Terry Pratchett

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
miguelito is offline  
post #16 of 310 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 07:26 AM
Member
 
Andreas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by gti20vturbo View Post
How many burnt stators have we had on this board or have you heard of any from owners not on this board? Is Kawasaki helping at all in regard to warranty? Did you have any warning signs of the issue?
Last year wife's stator went out, Stator

First it started out that her battery would not hold a charge, good thing I had jumper cable with us. I would jump her bike, when she was behind me her lights seemed fine, brightness. So I assumed her charging system was ok and we needed a new battery. Rode to a dealer, mechanic tested system and the voltage was not what it should be, tested battery and had a dead cell. Bike would start no problem, but charging system was not working properly and he couldn't tell us what it was.
Rode home (4hrs) and kawasaki explained most everything, and people on he forum helped, above link is to my thread from last year.
I bought a new regulator for my V-Strom, have yet to put it in, but company says it will help regulate currency and aide the stator

2005 50cc scooter, 2007 GS500f, 2008 DL650 Vstrom,
I'm here for my wife's V . She lets me Farkle her Ride. No Diamonds for her, but shiney stuff for the bike is Okay
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Andreas is offline  
post #17 of 310 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 07:31 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,436
Ever notice how the generator cover gets much hotter to the touch than the clutch cover? Could someone check how hot the generator cover is compared to other engine surfaces with a IR laser non-contact thermometer, including right and left side of engine head, before and after switching from original shunt type to a series type regulator rectifier?
invader is offline  
post #18 of 310 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 04:05 AM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,436
A MOSFET R/R may be more efficient and stable than the stock unit, but it's still a shunt type. A series type R/R does not require the stator to flow as much current, and has 1/3 of the power dissipation compared to shunt type (like OE or MOSFET based) R/R.


Cooler running stator: http://badweatherbikers.com/buell/me...tml?1312566505
invader is offline  
post #19 of 310 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 06:07 AM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,436
I've just snatched up this Karknee DT-300 pocket IR thermometer for $7.50 shipped.
Overnight delivery from Hong Kong.


http://www.yihu9.com/ShowProducts.asp?id=94
invader is offline  
post #20 of 310 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 06:32 AM
Member
 
CanadianFZ6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Posts: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
A MOSFET R/R may be more efficient and stable than the stock unit, but it's still a shunt type. A series type R/R does not require the stator to flow as much current, and has 1/3 of the power dissipation compared to shunt type (like OE or MOSFET based) R/R.

http://www.posplayr.100megsfree3.com...R_Tutorial.pdf

Cooler running stator: http://badweatherbikers.com/buell/me...tml?1312566505

When there is no demand on the battery, the voltage is shunted directly to the ground on the OE style shunt type R/R. In the Series style, the voltage regulator turns the charging system off. Therefore there is no magnetic field between the stator and rotor, reducing engine load and heat build up.

http://www.compufire.com/faq.html#Q10
Invader, if it were you.... would you consider replacing the stock R/R with the The VRRPM3 series regulator as a preventative measure? The versys has a 3 wire ac lead, right? In your opinion would this help the stock stator last longer? I am considering replacing my stock R/R on my 2010 before I have stator problems...

Richard

'14 Versys 650 (Green)
'14Honda CB500x
CanadianFZ6 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Versys Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome