How do I test the headlight relay? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-04-2016, 05:05 AM Thread Starter
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How do I test the headlight relay?

No power is going to the headlight sockets of my 2009 650, and I want to test the headlight relay.

The manual says to remove the relay box. Then it says "Check conductivity of the following numbered terminals by connecting the hand tester and one 12 V battery to the relay box."

This is the step that I don't understand. Because the next step in the manual is called "Relay Circuit Inspection (with the battery disconnected)". So which is it? Battery disconnected, or 12v battery to the relay box?

I have a cheap, tiny pocket multimeter, a Craftsman 82351. Do I simply set it to ohms and touch the leads to the 1 and 3 sockets, and ignore what the manual says about connecting a 12v battery?

And what if I get infinite resistance? Isn't that what I should expect, given that the lights don't work? How do I test whether the relay closes?

If someone instructs me to "connect the battery to the relay box," that's not going to help. How do I connect the battery? Literally, when the relay box is removed and I'm testing it, and it needs to be connected to the battery, what wires go where?

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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-04-2016, 06:38 AM
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Did you check for power to the headlight sockets with the bike running?

There are diagrams for relays all over. Do a google image search.

You have to have power to trigger the relay so you can measure resistance across the power flow leads.

Or power to trigger the relay, and power connected to the input so you can see if power is getting through the relay.

I'm on my phone so can't help with the picture that shows all this.

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-04-2016, 06:56 AM
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Holy Crap , hopefully not the stator again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden View Post
No power is going to the headlight sockets of my 2009 650, and I want to test the headlight relay.

The manual says to remove the relay box. Then it says "Check conductivity of the following numbered terminals by connecting the hand tester and one 12 V battery to the relay box."

This is the step that I don't understand. Because the next step in the manual is called "Relay Circuit Inspection (with the battery disconnected)". So which is it? Battery disconnected, or 12v battery to the relay box?

I have a cheap, tiny pocket multimeter, a Craftsman 82351. Do I simply set it to ohms and touch the leads to the 1 and 3 sockets, and ignore what the manual says about connecting a 12v battery?

And what if I get infinite resistance? Isn't that what I should expect, given that the lights don't work? How do I test whether the relay closes?

If someone instructs me to "connect the battery to the relay box," that's not going to help. How do I connect the battery? Literally, when the relay box is removed and I'm testing it, and it needs to be connected to the battery, what wires go where?
Real easy, no meter required, unplug the stator plug, 3 black wires that go to the regulator, (white wires are from the stator)
You need a short piece of wire, and a small jewelers screwdriver or just a fine slot screwdriver. Or , if you have like some solid copper telephone wire will work, no screwdriver needed.****note, screwdriver takes the place of solid wire as the pins are really small, and not a lot of room to get inside the socket to touch the pins. Note make sure you are using the positive terminal, not ground, as your regulator is live ( positive main fuse connected to it) all the time.

--use both hands and connect the jumper to the positive terminal while using your other hand for testing, you don't want to solidly connect to the battery, because if the wire touches ground, it will vaporize and you and your bike could have a burn mark.

So, first test, just hold the wire on the positive terminal, and touch the three pins of the black wire going to the regulator, one at a time, you need a quiet place to test this, one of those pins should give you a clicking sound, if so, ( if not, see note at bottom)proceed to next test;

Turn ignition key to on, do not start bike and the pin that gave the clicking sound, connect again, this time the headlight should come on, at the same time, turn on your high beam, if only high beam comes on, your bulb or socket is done on low beam---Done!


Note: no clicking and second step didn't produce either high or low beam, you need a new relay, FYI the headlight is a circuit of it's own, that is it has a fuse for it, if you hear clicking, it is possible the fuse is blown, although fuses fail for a reason,---will wait on your reply, no use looking for a problem that doesn't exist!

Last edited by onewizard; 03-04-2016 at 07:08 AM.
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-04-2016, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks, wizard. I'll try this when I get home.

Both bulbs look fine upon inspection. The headlight fuse is fine. I'm pretty sure the problem is the relay. Diagnosing that is half the battle, because I'll want to know why the relay went bad.

I installed Clearwater Glenda LED conspicuity lights a couple of years ago. They get their power by tapping into the headlight wires with Positaps. Sometimes, on rough or wavy pavement, the LED lights used to flicker. I suspect that there was a not-so-solid connection that flickered on and off, wreaking havoc on the relay.

When the headlights (low beam and high beam) stopped working, so did the Clearwater Glendas. I interpret that as evidence that the problem isn't the socket, because the Glendas are tapped into the headlight wire right before the low-beam socket.

But I'll also check the voltage coming from the regulator/rectifier.

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Last edited by Holden; 03-04-2016 at 09:25 AM.
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-04-2016, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden View Post
Thanks, wizard. I'll try this when I get home.

Both bulbs look fine upon inspection. The headlight fuse is fine. I'm pretty sure the problem is the relay. Diagnosing that is half the battle, because I'll want to know why the relay went bad.

I installed Clearwater Glenda LED conspicuity lights a couple of years ago. They get their power by tapping into the headlight wires with Positaps. Sometimes, on rough or wavy pavement, the LED lights used to flicker. I suspect that there was a not-so-solid connection that flickered on and off, wreaking havoc on the relay.

When the headlights (low beam and high beam) stopped working, so did the Clearwater Glendas. I interpret that as evidence that the problem isn't the socket, because the Glendas are tapped into the headlight wire right before the low-beam socket.

But I'll also check the voltage coming from the regulator/rectifier.
You have pretty well proven it is the relay, as to checking voltage, that isn't what I am asking to do, the relay is triggered by two things, the coil of the relay uses the starter solenoid coil circuit AND ground.Also the output of ONE stator wire is the main trigger, so by using your battery, that is equal to your stator running.
, so when starting the bike if stalled, the headlight relay drops out because the coil ground is positive while starting.

One thing I would check is the frame grounds, also there is a multitap shown joining all the grounds , that is hard to follow but there is a wiring breakdown, after the electrical drawings.

IMHO, if the relay was chattering under load, it would last about 1 to 2 months.I would be looking for a loose connection, one thing for sure, my first test, you should here a definite clicking, if you do, and no headlight, that would indicate the contact is blown away--AKA need a relay.Unfortunately that relay assembly is just that a assembly.

Last edited by onewizard; 03-04-2016 at 11:03 AM.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-04-2016, 11:09 AM
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Not being a narc but you didn't answer twowheeladdict question about checking the voltage with the engine running. The engine must be started or at least attempt to be started to get power to the light socket.
Did you check the headlight fuse? Much more likely to be blown than the relay.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-04-2016, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, I had the bike running when I checked whether there was current to the headlight socket.

The headlight fuse is OK. So are the fuses for the LED lights (there are 2 fuses for the LED lights -- one in the Fuzeblock, and an inline fuse.)

I have read elsewhere that when the relay assembly goes bad ($109.46 plus postage), one should check whether the regulator/rectifier is malfunctioning and frying the relay.

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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-04-2016, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MaverickAus View Post
Not being a narc but you didn't answer twowheeladdict question about checking the voltage with the engine running. The engine must be started or at least attempt to be started to get power to the light socket.
Did you check the headlight fuse? Much more likely to be blown than the relay.
Well I too don't want to be a narc, so if you understood how it worked like I do, you would have found that you DON'T need the key on to test the relay , for sound

it will pull in using the stator plug black wires, and only 1wire goes to the relay.

Second test again doesn"t require the motor running,also the wire we are using from the positive terminal is exactly the same as if your stator was outputing 12 VDC,( so if this method brought your headlight on but when connected to the stator and running , it doesn't, would point towards a bad stator) turn on[B] key switch only[/B why? because the stator plug is disconnected, you have no DC output, so starting the bike, makes the fuel pump and injectors and ignition run off the battery

As to the stator and testing, I already posted a fool proof and accurate method, yes the stator and headlight relay are linked, he has had a stator failure months ago.

Another quick way of testing and you can try this just to prove I know what I am talking about. Go out to your bike, turn on the ignition switch, jog the starter, without starting the bike 1 or 2 second pulse, out of 5 tries 3 will bring on the headlight on release of the start button---a flaw in the design of the headlight relay circuit. First time the light comes on, jog again, it will go off and may not come on, until the next try.

Bottom line, I don't like ripping things apart for no reason, unless you are bored , this method of using the stator plug that is easily accessible, requires just 5 minutes, and you are back riding.
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Last edited by onewizard; 03-04-2016 at 04:47 PM.
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-04-2016, 04:52 PM
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Testing Stator to see if Toast

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...testing+stator The start of the thread




http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/1072521-post5.html post #5 "Testing Stator to see if Toast"

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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 07:46 AM
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But, onewizard, I wouldn't pull the stator wires just to check a relay. Since the relay is suspect, I would pull it and test on a bench. It is not like he is doing this in the middle of a trip.

Powering the LED'S directly off the headlight is not a great idea, as Holden found out.

I always power my auxiliary lights off the battery with an in line fuse and a relay that is triggered off the auxiliary circuit. That way, you have an independent light circuit in case the headlight fuse, relay, etc., goes. Then you still have light to get home.
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 07:57 AM Thread Starter
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I disconnected the alternator lead connector. I connected the positive battery terminal to the pin and heard the relay click. I turned the key to on, connected the positive terminal to the pin again, and the headlight worked. Then I reconnected the regulator to the stator, started the bike, and the headlight worked. Turned off the bike, started it again, and the headlight did not turn on.

Then I repeated all of the above, and the exact same sequence of events happened.

WTF?

And the stator-side lead connector was partially melted.
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Last edited by Holden; 03-05-2016 at 08:11 AM.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
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I checked the grounds. Disconnected the ground under the saddle, sprayed contact cleaner there, reconnected. Both battery terminals were less snug than I'd like, so I tightened those. Loosened the ground on the engine, sprayed it with contact cleaner, retightened.

Then I unplugged that burned connector between the stator and regulator, sprayed contact cleaner in there, blew it dry, reconnected...

And now the headlight works whenever I start the bike. Well, I've tested it about five times and the headlight functioned each time.

So maybe that burned plug caused a loose connection between the stator and regulator that caused the headlight to malfunction. I guess I need to replace that plug.

Edit: I waited 10 minutes, started it again, and nope. The headlight does not turn on.

Re-edit: A few minutes later I tried again and the light didn't work. I gently bent the connector between the alternator and regulator and, voila, the lights came on. So that's it -- the burned-out stator-side connector causes a bad connection, resulting in a loss of current to the relay. And I had thought the culprit was the relay.
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Last edited by Holden; 03-05-2016 at 09:34 AM.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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It turns out that the connector doesn't have its own part number. It's part of the stator. So now I'm on the hunt for this particular piece of plastic. Argh.

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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
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It turns out that the connector doesn't have its own part number. It's part of the stator. So now I'm on the hunt for this particular piece of plastic. Argh.
I have a simple fix, and Thank You for following my direction, plus you save over $100.

I will give you several option, first the pins in that socket have a latch barb that once you push the crimped connector into the plug it locks it in. There is a removal tool but I have had marginal success using a needle or straight pin, pushing in from the pin side towards the wire. What we are trying to do is remove the pins from the plastic, so we have the longest wire possible. I have also taken diagonal cutters and just cut away at the plastic. I know RM stator in Quebec includes those plugs, so they may have both. Personally I wouldn't bother.
So my fix is get 3 female and 3 male insulated spade terminals , cut the pin off the wire, and connect the female to the stator wires and the male to the black regulator wires, if concerned about water, use my back tape method, over the whole thing then a sandwich wrap with silicone over that, shouldn't be more than $3 , unless you need to buy silicone. And superior electrically to OEM, if you want to know why**ask.

FYI , the connections are 3 phase and random order, so don't worry what went were.

Last edited by onewizard; 03-05-2016 at 10:39 AM.
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 10:48 AM
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OEM Stator Plug

A brief explanation, the connector pin size used doesn't match the wire size used. One way of explaining it would be to compare using booster cables that had one end short by 6 inches--ya I know---just came to my head---not on purpose--sooo if you used a 40% smaller wire to join the booster cable to the battery it would work, however it would get warm dependent proportionally to the load current. Some heat would be drawn out of the smaller conductor by the larger conductor, however as heat produces expansion, eventually the smaller conductor would fail, as it heats up , its resistance rises so voltage drop increases, which produces more heat, etc.

And that connector could have had double the size of pin and been far superior to what we have. FYI the regulator suffers from the same stupid design.
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 11:28 AM
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[QUOTE=twowheeladdict;1088025]But, onewizard,
Powering the LED'S directly off the headlight is not a great idea, as Holden found out.

I always power my auxiliary lights off the battery with an in line fuse and a relay that is triggered off the auxiliary circuit. That way, you have an independent light circuit in case the headlight fuse, relay, etc., goes. Then you still have light to get home.[/QUOTE]

My apologises , I thought they were like city lights, low power, just looked up, they are listed at 12 watts, and you are 100% correct about a separate circuit, I have said that myself, last thing you need is to have all your lights go out, one option I have posted recently is using the city lights circuit, which is tail and brake light, a separate fuse tapped off that circuit using a 3 amp fuse for the Glenda lights.
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 09:29 PM
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Crimping 101/ Insulated Stakons / Crimpers & Wire Strippers

So I have taken some time and will explain how and why to eliminate the OEM socket and replace with a electrically superior connection.
Follow my post 14 to replace the failed socket.

Note: whenever possible use female for the source of power, in this case the wires from the stator, and male crimps for the load side, in this case the regulator, when connecting a DC circuit, such as providing a lighter plug, use a female for the battery positive source, male to the lighter socket, then reverse the male female for negative ground that is use a male for the frame ground and a female for the negative to the lighter socket negative. This way if ever disconnected it can't be connected reverse polarity because the lighter wiring has one male and one female crimp.

Picture 1 shows a blue crimp using T&B or Channel lock crimper, this is my preferred method. The pink 16 gauge is done with the end "insulated " section of the Channel lock, I don't like this style and many crimpers have the crimp area located like the Greenlee in pic 6, where you have a mechanical disadvantage, unless you can crush pop cans with your bare hands, a very good chance of the crimp failing ( if you can pull the wire out of the crimp , it is failed / insufficient crimp pressure )

pic 4 shows the end of a strped wire between the yellow ( 10 gauge) and blue crimp, notice it is bent in the shape of a hook, between the dark blue and pink is the same wire fully closed, typically I double over the 16 gauge wire and use the 10 gauge crimp for more surface area.

Pic 1 you will notice copper wire extending through the pink crimp, normally it would be slightly shorter but this was done to show no harm in being longer than shorter.The blue butt splice has been crimped by the T&B , the pink was done by the Channellock front crimper. The T&B indentation is my preferred method.


pic 2 shows 14 gauge fully insulated 1/4 inch spade crimps in blue / turquoise , the yellow partially insulated spade crimps is 10 gauge.
pic 7 my preferred wire stripper when panel building on left, my preferred crimper T&B on right
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 10:46 PM
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sooooooooo.... looking at the diagram, the headlight relay is always in series with 2 diodes and the starter relay coil. that would indicate that the light relay is a special monkey right? the lighting relay must operate at a lower voltage and yet current limit enough to keep the starter relay from coming on uncommanded, so I'm guessing it's not an off the shelf relay & think that is an important point. a test as described is ok, but prolly not a good idea to go full voltage too long.

1wizard.... ever test one on a variable power supply to see where it comes in? just curious. I see what they are doin.... any time you push start, it puts plus on both sides of the headlight coil & turns it off.

the Concours had weirder one than that... it used the starter's armature as a generator to engage the rely as it winds down after start, then the relay would latch with alternator power
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if I'm answering your question I assume the basic points have been addressed, such as: did you do a compression test? is it still on fire?
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 11:32 PM
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Post 9 / Starter Solenoid discharge diode

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sooooooooo.... looking at the diagram, the headlight relay is always in series with 2 diodes and the starter relay coil. that would indicate that the light relay is a special monkey right? the lighting relay must operate at a lower voltage and yet current limit enough to keep the starter relay from coming on uncommanded, so I'm guessing it's not an off the shelf relay & think that is an important point. a test as described is ok, but prolly not a good idea to go full voltage too long.

1wizard.... ever test one on a variable power supply to see where it comes in? just curious. I see what they are doin.... any time you push start, it puts plus on both sides of the headlight coil & turns it off.

the Concours had weirder one than that... it used the starter's armature as a generator to engage the rely as it winds down after start, then the relay would latch with alternator power
In actual fact any 12 volt relay would work, diodes provide blocking only, one diode is for latching the relay, and one for pulling in / rectification from the stator.

The ground or negative side of the headlight relay goes to the positive
side of the starter solenoid , keep in mind there is a starter relay mounted beside the headlight relay , and starter solenoid located at the main fuse. So having positive on both sides of the coil produces 0 current flow. the starter solenoid coil is a heavy gauge low impedance coil, if this coil stayed on for 5 minutes it would burn out. If I was really curious I would measure the resistance of the starter solenoid coil wire, and one day I may do just that. It may be that Kawasaki specs the relay for 10 volts, I don't know, one thing that could be done is measure the VDC across the starter solenoid coil with the bike running, that is the voltage drop across the solenoid, say it was 2 volts at 14.2 VDC output.

So, once the bike starts and alternator puts out 12 VDC, the positive energy/ current, goes into the headlight coil, through the coil out to the positive side of the starter solenoid, through the starter solenoid coil and out the solenoid coil to frame ground.

You want to prove this, start your bike, disconnect the starter solenoid positive or negative wire once it is running, your headlight will drop out.
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onewizard View Post
Well I too don't want to be a narc, so if you understood how it worked like I do, you would have found that you DON'T need the key on to test the relay , f[/B]
Well I don't want to be a narc but if you read what I posted I didn't say anything about testing the bloody relay. And if you are so smart why don't you go fix his bike for him.
Regards the one who doesn't understand things like you do.

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