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What octane fuel does everyone use?

33K views 60 replies 32 participants last post by  fpgt72 
#1 ·
I know that Kawasaki states in the owner's manual that the Versys engine is tuned to run on 87 Octane fuel. I have been using 93 octane out of habit from my last bike which was a gsxr750. Does the Versys really run the same on 87 or can you net better mpg's or slight increase in smoothness running 93? I would like to know what everyone else is running and opinions
 
#32 · (Edited)
Keep in mind, nowhere in the manual does it "recommend" 87 octane fuel. What it recommends is a "minimum of" 87 octane fuel.
As such you also have a Minimum oil level, a Minimum coolant level, minimum clutch free play, minimum chain slack etc.. What this all says is that this is the absolute minimum acceptable operating parameters as recommended by the manufacturer.
It does not list a Maximum octane rating. So if you want to run the minimal accepted standard of 87, and it works, then its fine.
If you can get good quality gas, you will notice no difference from 87 - 93 or even 97 in terms of power and probably even see a slight loss in mileage. This is Very true.. SO no sense in paying for something your not using.

Certain areas of the country are blessed with ****ty gas from ****ty no name stations. I live in such an area. My favorite route runs single lane and two lane roads through the middle of nowhere that see my fuel options limited to exactly two stations 175 miles apart. I personally love the quiet rides in the middle of nowhere like many do, however in doing such it means I have little choice but to get gas at a station that has questionable fuel. Hell, It has made my Altima Ping, which runs not much more than a glorified lawnmower engine.
Under these circumstances, I have tried twice over the last few months to put in 87 octane gas. The bike simply does not run as good, and I get less miles to a tank of gas. In these circumstances I personally run the highest Octane available which is 93 octane.
If All Id did was run west towards town, then I can certainly get away with 87, as there are many top notch gas stations. However since most of my free time away from work is back country roads with piss poor gas , around me anyway, then I stick with the 93.
 
#37 ·
I did read, and you think "no name" gas, and "back country" are going to be "piss poor"....anything more is a waste of pixels.

It is pretty simple to see your position....you know what you know and no amount of fact, proof, science or anything else will change your mind.

Enjoy your bike and your Altima....shocked as the computer on the nissan should see that premature detonation make adjustments to fuel and timing before you ever even knew about it....but YOUR car must be different over all the others...you might have it looked at.
 
#38 · (Edited)
Cool, Thanks! Oh Almost forgot! :grin2:

Actually Nope, Not going to leave it like that. No need for me to be a smart ass.

In essence, I appreciate what you are trying to do to convey to me that a lower octane gas is acceptable, thus saving me some money. I can't fault you for that,It's commendable. I do also understand the science behind it.

However you are discounting my relationship with a gas station that I have frequented for years. I know it to have slightly substandard gas based on not only 4 rides on a 2014 Versys, but years worth of rides on a variety of machines. Based on those experience, I know the gas to be not quite as good of quality as other gas near my house. And whether you believe it or not, the machines simply aren't crazy about 87 octane from that particular station. However, I like the routes, Like the hot dogs, pretty cool folks usually behind the counter, so I pay a few extra cents for gas and move on. When I finally take a trip to the beach with this bike, or up north to see the family, I would actually have no issue using 87 octane gas. However when I ride my get away from the fam route, I will continue to use 93.
 
#42 ·
I start out at 87 octane on everything.

I don't worry about ethanol in the fuel that we've been using for 30+ years here. It's never caused me a single problem.

If it pings, I go to the next higher octane rating until it stops the pinging.

Works for me.


Ride more, worry less.
 
#46 · (Edited)
I have 35 years in fuels manufacturing, production, lab, and additives. But you should still take what I say here as information only, and use your own judgement to do what's best for you.

This information relates to fuels in North America only. The rest of the world operates in a similar fashion, but I have little experience off Island NA.

If you have a high-compression engine, or it's turbo- or super-charged - you need a higher octane fuel to prevent destructive detonation in the combustion cycle. The Versys engine is none of these things.

The Octane Number is an indication of a fuel's resistance to detonation under compression - so-called pre-ignition. Often heard as a 'knock'. The fuel is self-igniting before the spark event, often before the piston has risen to where it provides maximum compression to the mixture, resulting in excessive pressures - ie. the fuel mixture goes BANG! before top dead centre, trying to force the pistion down (and your bike into reverse...) while the rest of the parts of the engine and the motorcycle are still moving 'forward', driving it up. That's it. It does not directly relate to energy content, or even flammability. Flammability is not a term generally used in the industry to describe a fuel's characteristics. It's all 100 % flammable, hopefully. Maybe a more correct term would be 'flame-front propagation and sustain", but that's more technical than we need to be.

Your engine is designed to burn fuels containing ethanol. Ethanol is an excellent octane enhancer, and flame-front stabiliser - and despite containing less actual calories - energy - than gasoline - the increase in combustion efficiency it imparts in a modern engine will offset the small energy deficit of 10% ethanol in your fuel. Don't be afraid of it, just buy fresh fuel from a busy station and don't let it sit in your tank for months at a time.

There is very little difference in the actual energy content between the low and the high octane (so-called "Premium") gasoline. Pure ethyl alcohol has an octane rating in excess of 100, but contains 2/3 the energy of 'pure' gasoline. And since 'pure' gasoline is a blend of many different compounds, there is no such thing as pure gasoline - unless you can find 100% C8 Octane somewhere. I see it in the lab - and nowhere else. It's used as a reference fuel in "Knock Engines -a very accurate engine used to generate that MON - motor octane number for your octane rating. RON - is the research number - the octane number calculated by a spectral and chromatographic analysis of the fuel. Always higher than MON. The real world has limitations...

The myth is that Premium gas is somehow better in some way than regular gas. That there is more or better additives in it. That it has more 'energy' in it. That it somehow 'works' better in some cars. Well, we certainly don't design it that way, but that doesn't stop the Ad Men and Women from marketing it that way... I shake my head every time I see that Shell V-Power Nitrogen Enriched commercial...

Mostly not true. Usually the ONLY difference is that Premium gas is blended to a higher Octane number with slightly different components. It is possible that there is an Octane-enhancing additive added to the fuel to raise it's Octane rating. There are several that work, most are alcohols, in Canada we can use MMT. It's a 'lead substitute' that uses manganese.

There is no difference between buying at a Branded station verus an Independent. It all comes from the same tank. The Refinery does not have separate tanks - "Good" gas for it's own stations, "Cheap" gas for the independents. There *may* be a tiny difference in additive packages - but in no significant way that a consumer would notice or need to be concerned about.

A thing to consider - it's always best to use the freshest gas available. Since Premium is often more expensive, it is often the 'oldest' gas at the station - the least fresh, if you will. Regular outsells Premium in North America 100 to 1.

The big branded companies usually use a bit (and I do mean a bit, an almost immeasureable amount) more of their additive package in their branded fuels so they can legally advertise it as 'different' from a competitor's fuels. But it mostly makes next to no measureable difference in performance of the additives - it's a well-known science, there's not much new under the sun.



For my Versys, I buy Regular gas at a busy station that sells a lot of it, ensuring a relatively 'fresh' supply.

Fuels manufacturers love people who buy Premium, The margins of Premium gas are HUGE! Hey, somebody has to pay my pension. :D

Hope this helps.
 
#47 ·
Visitor zero- thank you for the very knowledgeable and thorough explanation of different fuel qualities, and for busting some myths. It's as I expected; premium fuel (and the Internet) are full of myths and bad advertising.
I will continue to use 'regular' 87 octane from a busy gas station and, as I said earlier, know that the sky will not fall if the fuel contains 10% ethanol, just as my engines didn't implode when no-lead fuel was introduced.
 
#50 ·
Have been keeping an eye on this thread. I've always used Premium in every vehicle i have. But filled up the FJR day before yesterday morning with 87 octane and the bike seems to like it better. Did a lot of city yesterday and mostly freeway today...
 
#53 · (Edited)
Two very minor points.

Yes - for winter storage here, I fill with Premium that 'technically' has no ethanol in it, and add a stabilizer. Bikes are stored in a heated garage, so it's unlikely to be an issue. Although I've never seen it happen, it is possible for the ethanol to drop out of solution to the bottom of the tank (or float bowl, if you have one). It would most likely be caused by water getting into your tank through condensation, causing the additive that keeps it in solution to be overwhelmed - and fail. It takes a fair amount of water for this to happen, even in the lab. Apparently this is sometimes seen by the Marine Fuels guys in large tanks. Bad. Bad things happen at interfaces. But rare for on-road stuff, I'd imagine.

And - if where you ride gets you high (and I mean ASL) - the science actually would indicate you go DOWN in Octane rating for better performance due to the decreased fuel/air mixture now available to your engine... in the Versys, open loop ECU with no O2 sensor, I'm not sure the engine map would know the difference, or how much difference it would make anyway. It's never come up for me in Flatland where I live.
 
#54 ·
... in the Versys, open loop ECU with no O2 sensor, I'm not sure the engine map would know the difference, or how much difference it would make anyway. It's never come up for me in Flatland where I live.
What about the '15 V which DOES have an O2 sensor, thus being 'closed loop'?
 
#55 · (Edited)
That's a good question. I'm most likely not qualified to answer it.

So in the true Spirit of the Internet, here goes:

I would *guess* that as you go up in altitude, the O2 sensor will read a decrease in Oxygen surviving the combustion event - indicating to it's tiny little brain that a 'rich' condition is about to occur. And cutting back on the amount of fuel injected accordingly, to keep the mixture as close to the optimum stoichiometric as is possible.

Leaner mixtures in an engine not specifically designed for it (like an Atkinson Cycle engine, as I understand it) are harder to ignite reliably at the proper time and harder to keep the flame front steady, resulting in a less than optimum burn and lower cylinder pressures at perhaps the wrong crank position - resulting in a less than optimally powerful event. Which they are anyway, since there's less fuel to be burned in the first place.

So lower Octane number fuels resist detonation less vigorously than higher Octane number fuels. Therefore it detonates (and perhaps burns) more readily in some situations. That property may make it work better at high elevations.

I have read that in *some* engine operation environments - like a lean mixture - lower Octane number fuels *can* respond better to the spark ignition event in comparison with a higher Octane Number fuel, which may resist the ignition event to a greater extent. So using a lower Octane fuel *may* result in better flame front propagation and sustain, and a more "even' combustion event, and therefore a better power stroke.

Maybe. Like I said... YMMV... ;)
 
#60 ·
We have 95 and 97 here in my country, but since my versys PC5 was tuned while having ron95 in it so i felt no diff when pumping in ron97.
 
#61 ·
Visitor Zero said what I was trying to say, but has much better forum skillz then I.

One thing I would also suggest is if you happen to see a fuel truck at the station you plan on stopping at....drive/ride on by. Really most of the time....goes double true for older stations is the tanks in the ground get all kinds of krud in them....and putting that fresh new gas in will really mix up the garbage in the tank. Now the filters on the pumps, and in your car will stop most of it.....if the filters are actually in the pumps, don't ask me how I know....one station I worked at seemed to thing the maint. contract on the pumps was an excuse not to put fresh filters on their pumps.....but just a good rule of thumb.

If all else fails just fall back to what your owners manual sais...some things you may not think needs higher octane gas actually does, Chevy Volt, Toyota FJ...two that stand out at the moment. Both are not hot rods or along those lines, but do want higher octane fuels.
 
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