What I like and don't like about my V - Page 3 - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #41 of 63 (permalink) Old 10-26-2012, 10:19 AM
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Thought i'd throw in here...

Mine is a 2009.

Likes:
Light and flickable
Fun
Ergos are perfect for me but the seat height is tall. I had it lowered, but I think they did a crappy job. I believe only the rear was lowered, so I need to have the front forks lowered as well. I honestly did not know what was entailed until I read here that the whole bike has to be adjusted. They also didn't cut down the kickstand so of course i knocked it over. My husband cut down the stand and it's better. Now for the front forks.
Awesome power band
OEM Bags are perfect, but it would be nice to add a top box for touring.
Did I mention light?
Love my motowerk GPS holder.

Dislikes:
What's up with the windscreen?
The mirror vibration is horrid..replaced.
The cowl vibration, only i can't exactly locate it and it makes me crazy.
The side stand is poorly located, and when I try to put it down, I always hit my shin on the foot pegs.
Progressive considers it a "sportbike"...wtf?
Too taut suspension, but that can be fixed with an adjustment, I assume.
No center stand or ability to have one!


I just returned from a 3500 mile tour and rode my other bike a 1250 Bandit. Better set up for touring, better bike for high winds, more comfortable period. There are times I am not sure why I bought the Versys.
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post #42 of 63 (permalink) Old 10-26-2012, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by invader View Post
LOL! Some are experiencing fueling problems from the lean mixture, especially with ethanol gasoline and at near sea level... Nothing that a simple counterclockwise tweak of the main throttle sensor can't fix, among other things. Mine does of course run flawlessly.
Thanks invader! I was really taken back!

No big deal!

( RIDE FREE BE SAFE )
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post #43 of 63 (permalink) Old 10-26-2012, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demenshea View Post
Thought i'd throw in here...

Mine is a 2009.

Likes:
Light and flickable
Fun
Ergos are perfect for me but the seat height is tall. I had it lowered, but I think they did a crappy job. I believe only the rear was lowered, so I need to have the front forks lowered as well. I honestly did not know what was entailed until I read here that the whole bike has to be adjusted. They also didn't cut down the kickstand so of course i knocked it over. My husband cut down the stand and it's better. Now for the front forks.
Awesome power band
OEM Bags are perfect, but it would be nice to add a top box for touring.
Did I mention light?
Love my motowerk GPS holder.

Dislikes:
What's up with the windscreen?
The mirror vibration is horrid..replaced.
The cowl vibration, only i can't exactly locate it and it makes me crazy.
The side stand is poorly located, and when I try to put it down, I always hit my shin on the foot pegs.
Progressive considers it a "sportbike"...wtf?
Too taut suspension, but that can be fixed with an adjustment, I assume.
No center stand or ability to have one!


I just returned from a 3500 mile tour and rode my other bike a 1250 Bandit. Better set up for touring, better bike for high winds, more comfortable period. There are times I am not sure why I bought the Versys.
- Doing a throttle body vacuum sync at least once annually will cut down the vibration and make the engine run smoother, nice to have a carb sync tool for this
- The cowling vibration/resonance/noise issue is easy to fix. Rev up the engine in neutral till the noise starts and press down on the various parts until you identify the vibrating panel. Usually the tab on the end of the black plastic dash piece at least on 07-09 bikes. Insert some foam weather stripping tape to prevent the plastic fairing piece from vibrating and making noise. Also make sure all fairing bolts are tight and rubber dampers are in place. Sometimes wiring and connectors under the cowling can vibrate against the inside of the cowling if they are not taped or tied down sufficiently.
- With better after market mirrors mirror vibration is minimal but exists to some extent on all 1 and 2 cyl bikes
- install spools on rear swing arm (they will protect it in a crash too) and buy a spool stand. It is better than a kickstand to work on the bike with
- i really like my after market windshield, i think the stock one is too small.
- like any bike you will find an improvement in ride quality and handling by correctly setting preload for your weight and then fiddling with damping adjustments

Last edited by Sprocket; 10-26-2012 at 07:06 PM.
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post #44 of 63 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 07:59 AM
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Hi Invader, You seem to know these Versys bikes well. Congratulations.

My woes started after I'd had the bike about 7 months. The bike started running poorly right through the rev range. I initially thought it was caused by poor fuel but several tanks later it was still there. When I read up on it, the symptoms were indicative of an O2 sensor that was out of synch (leaning out at constant throttle causing). I took it back to the shop and they told me they could find nothing wrong. The Kawasaki technical services group told the mechanic "they all run like that". I refused to take the bike back and got a phonecall the next day to say that it was fixed. The mechanic had installed an O2 eliminator, i.e. no more closed-loop operation on the FI.

I was happy that the bike was running much better but I challenged the mechanic that he might be masking another problem as he had told me that the O2 sensor tested in-spec. He wouldn't engage with me on the discussion. Either he was genuinly pissed with me for "looking for a problem that wasn't there" or he doesn't know much about FI. Why would the bike lean-out if the O2 sensor was fine? A leak on the intake?

Anyway, since that episode, I've been unhappy with the low-rev throttle responses and I'm not sure if it was always like that or if it is the same problem. I ride the bike every day and I'm fixated with the problem; it's driving me crazy.

I cannot believe that Kawasaki would sell a bike that fuels this poorly. And I cannot reconcile buying a PC for, what is, a commuter bike. Especially since it's less than 12 months old with 5000 km on the clock.

I read the service manual and it warns not to mess with the main throttle sensor but I'm going to try unless you have any other advice. Do I need any special tools?

Thanks Invader.

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post #45 of 63 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 08:00 AM
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Oh and I had not noticed that there was a vibration from the dashboard!
I always ride with ear plugs so never noticed it :-))

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post #46 of 63 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Toughguy View Post
Hi Invader, You seem to know these Versys bikes well. Congratulations.

My woes started after I'd had the bike about 7 months. The bike started running poorly right through the rev range. I initially thought it was caused by poor fuel but several tanks later it was still there. When I read up on it, the symptoms were indicative of an O2 sensor that was out of synch (leaning out at constant throttle causing). I took it back to the shop and they told me they could find nothing wrong. The Kawasaki technical services group told the mechanic "they all run like that". I refused to take the bike back and got a phonecall the next day to say that it was fixed. The mechanic had installed an O2 eliminator, i.e. no more closed-loop operation on the FI.

I was happy that the bike was running much better but I challenged the mechanic that he might be masking another problem as he had told me that the O2 sensor tested in-spec. He wouldn't engage with me on the discussion. Either he was genuinly pissed with me for "looking for a problem that wasn't there" or he doesn't know much about FI. Why would the bike lean-out if the O2 sensor was fine? A leak on the intake?

Anyway, since that episode, I've been unhappy with the low-rev throttle responses and I'm not sure if it was always like that or if it is the same problem. I ride the bike every day and I'm fixated with the problem; it's driving me crazy.

I cannot believe that Kawasaki would sell a bike that fuels this poorly. And I cannot reconcile buying a PC for, what is, a commuter bike. Especially since it's less than 12 months old with 5000 km on the clock.

I read the service manual and it warns not to mess with the main throttle sensor but I'm going to try unless you have any other advice. Do I need any special tools?

Thanks Invader.
All you need is a T25 Torx tool... Look at the main (grey) throttle sensor's green alignment mark on its front from near your front left flasher, and note how it ligns up. Loosen sensor screw with T25 Torx tool. Rotate sensor counterclockwise by about half a millimeter as seen on pic. Adjust, then tighten Torx screw. This raises WOT output voltage to within spec range instead of just below it, with idle position output voltage at slightly above spec to add just enough fuel at low throttle opening range. Main throttle sensor's new position:



Main throttle sensor Torx screw:



Fast idle may then be higher. You can rotate subthrottle sensor (black, just above main throttle sensor) also counterclockwise with T25 Torx screw to reduce cold fast-idle rpm. I rotated mine to its maximum counterclockwise position, to which it was already near. Subthrottle sensor's new position:



Try it out, then you can fine tune it with more minute adjustments if you like, to add just enough fuel at low throttle opening for good driveability.

TPS Adjustment

Last edited by invader; 10-28-2012 at 08:24 AM.
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post #47 of 63 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 08:41 AM
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Thanks for the illustration. I've been down in the garage and adjusted the main throttle sensor. Cold tickover is higher at slightly under 1500 rpm. It's dark and I'm in shorts and incorrect footware but really looking forward to my ride tomorrow morning. I will report back...

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post #48 of 63 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Toughguy View Post
Thanks for the illustration. I've been down in the garage and adjusted the main throttle sensor. Cold tickover is higher at slightly under 1500 rpm. It's dark and I'm in shorts and incorrect footware but really looking forward to my ride tomorrow morning. I will report back...
Right on, mate!

Also, after finding a good main throttle sensor setting and witnessing the positive results, you could try the vacuum hose mod by replacing the two TB vacuum access rubber caps with a simple 6" (15 cm) long, 1/8" (3 mm) ID vacuum hose which further smooths out low end throttle control, by damping the vacuum pulse and IAP sensor signal.

D-J Method and α - N Method:

When the engine load is light like at idling or low speed, the ECU determines the injection quantity by calculating from the throttle vacuum (inlet air pressure sensor output voltage) and engine speed (crankshaft sensor output voltage). This method is called D-J method (low-speed mode). As the engine speed increases, and the engine load turns middle to heavy, the ECU determines the injection quantity by calculating from the throttle opening (throttle sensor output voltage) and the engine speed. This method is called α - N method (high-speed mode).



Last edited by invader; 10-28-2012 at 08:45 AM.
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post #49 of 63 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 08:52 AM
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That makes perfect sense Invader. Thanks, maybe I won't have to get rid of this bike afterall!

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post #50 of 63 (permalink) Old 10-31-2012, 08:49 PM
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Invader, I adjusted the main throttle sensor and fuelling at low revs has improved. I will try to get the tank off this weekend and do the vacuum hose mod.
Can I ask you if the throttle sensor adjustment will have any other impact on fuelling elsewhere in the rev-range? Impact fuel consumption? I thought I felt the bike leaning out a little while cruising in the 4500 -5000 rpm range since I made the adjustment.
What duty does the main throttle sensor actually perform? I'd love to know a bit more about how the system works.

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post #51 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-01-2012, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Toughguy View Post
Invader, I adjusted the main throttle sensor and fuelling at low revs has improved. I will try to get the tank off this weekend and do the vacuum hose mod.
Can I ask you if the throttle sensor adjustment will have any other impact on fuelling elsewhere in the rev-range? Impact fuel consumption? I thought I felt the bike leaning out a little while cruising in the 4500 -5000 rpm range since I made the adjustment.
What duty does the main throttle sensor actually perform? I'd love to know a bit more about how the system works.
Air/fuel ratio reaches a lean peak at 2800 rpm (~14.5:1), falls progressively richer to a dip at 4100 rpm (~12.8:1), leans back up (~13.5:1 @ 4500-5000 rpm), then richens considerably to 5500 rpm (~12.2:1) and up to redline (~11.5:1). The wide torque band spans from 3800 rpm to 8100 with maximum at 6800 rpm, but some fuel can be saved by keeping it under 5200+ rpm as much as possible.

Idle and low speed is set too lean at the factory to pass emission requirements. Adjusting the main throttle sensor slightly counterclockwise raises its output voltage from slightly below recommended spec to within spec range at WOT, while raising ouput voltage to just above spec at idle position. This adds enough fuel at low throttle opening to cure the lean stumble.

I don't think the adjustment makes the already lean 4500-5000 rpm range any leaner. The adjustment does raise the WOT voltage output to where it should be. Maybe it seems weeker now at 4500-5000 because it's improved from idle to 4500 rpm... You'd have to run it on a dyno with wideband oxygen sensor in exhaust (without stock catalytic converter in muffler) to confirm.

Last edited by invader; 11-02-2012 at 01:45 AM.
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post #52 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-01-2012, 07:21 AM
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The day Invader sells his V is the same day mine goes on the market.




May the road always curve in front of you.
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post #53 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-01-2012, 12:23 PM
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The day Invader sells his V is the same day mine goes on the market.

+1 I second that! Its nice having someone that clear on the V, and we don't take you for granted invader!

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post #54 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-04-2012, 01:27 AM
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Invader, I managed to do the vacuum hose mod (across the throttle body ports) this morning. That's the first time I've had the tank off. The air filter got a clean and re-oil too. I'm still trying to optimise the position of the main throttle sensor until I find the sweet spot. Many thanks for your advice.

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post #55 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-04-2012, 01:36 PM
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I like everything about the versys.
I don't like the cowling buzz and waiting until i am back from Afghanistan to do some more mods. i am thinking of the supermoto front fender, handgaurds, one of those cheap danmoto exhausts, and a PC V.
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post #56 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-04-2012, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by amschemel View Post
I like everything about the versys.
I don't like the cowling buzz and waiting until i am back from Afghanistan to do some more mods. i am thinking of the supermoto front fender, handgaurds, one of those cheap danmoto exhausts, and a PC V.
Hope you can come home soon!

That buss started on my V finally and was easy fix with two inches of small vac tube under gages!

All in all the V is the best bike I have ever owned so far.

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post #57 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-04-2012, 07:01 PM
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Like:

- low end torque

- very affordable price

- fuel efficiency


Dislike:

- OEM seat

- windscreen

- lack of engine protection

- needs a rear tire hugger
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post #58 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-07-2012, 01:54 AM
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Congratulations on a great thread. All have agreed on most of the little Versys niggles. I can live with them all but I'm ready to get rid of my 2011 Versys 650 ABS as the poor fuelling between 3000 and 4000 rpm is just chronic. It's a real shame because I love everything else about the bike.

:-((
There is a $0 solution: Disconnect the o2 sensor. Left side, right in front of the sprocket cover. The plug has 3 clamps, so go figure. Fix the plug "open", and tape for waterproofing.

The FI light will come on, but you'll have a different bike below 4000 rpm. Enjoy riding at 1800 rpm in 6th gear.

You can also buy a "o2 dummy"/"o2 eliminator" for $20ish which tells the ECU that lambda is fine. FI light stays off, but some rider have experienced worse engine behaviour with dummy compared to "open plug".

2008 Kawasaki Versys
1994 Honda NTV 650
1999 Suzuki AN125

Last edited by blahwas; 11-07-2012 at 01:58 AM.
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post #59 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-07-2012, 10:22 PM
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Recently I have not liked the high center of gravity when the tank is full of fuel. I dropped the bike once when I got a little off balance and the weight of the freshly filled tank didn't make it easy to keep the bike up, had to let her down... :-( The tank gets pretty sloshy when full and I definitely feel it.

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post #60 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-08-2012, 12:26 AM
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Luckily, American Versys models don't have the O2 sensor to fight with.
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