No front brakes!!!! - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
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No front brakes!!!!

Yup, that's a wake up call...

I was out riding my new kawi versys 650lt. It only has a bit over 600 miles on it. I got about a mile from the house, hit a bump and heard a weird double klunk from the front end. I'm trying to listen if something's loose in the fairing, hit some more little bumps and I can hear a light rattle. HMM. I stab the front brakes a couple times and the klunk is definitely in the front end. I decide I better pull over and see what's up... when I grab front brakes to slow down there was non. Zero, zip, gone. Fortunately there was no traffic, I rolled up the road til I could pull off using the rear brake.

Interesting. the right front caliper has removed itself from the fork. Bolts are gone, rim is torn up.

Fortunately the pads are thick so when the pistons went out far enough to make the pads touch I regained braking from the other caliper. Zip ties to the rescue, and I ride it home, carefully.

Upon inspection, there was apparently no thread locking agent on the caliper bolts, well at least in evaluating the caliper threads.

Still under warranty, kawasaki's problem now, not mine. I think I'm done riding today though... Steve
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 01:59 PM
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YIKES!!! Probably a dealer prep issue when the bike was assembled. And no quality control after the work was done (or in your case NOT DONE properly) Glad it didn't end worse, sure could have.


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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 02:36 PM
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OMG, Steve -- I'm so sorry to hear that! I'm glad you survived it, though. I'm sure it could have been much, much worse. And when you find a good dealership to do the work, let me know. I don't trust the dealership closest to my place.

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 03:39 PM
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Rush to Get It Out the Door

Another reason do be doing your own work, somebody will get their kicked or should.No excuse for that, hopefully they replace the rim too.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 04:46 PM
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Hmmm.... so it not just me! I picked up a new LT on Friday and the fuel pump packed in at 12 miles, the left mirror started flapping in the breeze at 13 miles, and a hundred miles later the handlebars seemed a bit loose.... indeed they were! Two of the bolts had not been tightened up fully allowing the bar to wobble about in the clamp. Screen screws were all loose, battery positive bolt was cross threaded (and still is) and the sidestand will not retract on its own!

I do not think the dealer has done a good job of checking things out so I am just going out to check the calipers!
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 05:40 PM
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Wow, these dealers should be reported to Kawasaki. Remember the dealer prep fee you paid for when you purchased the bike? The bikes come in a crate and the dealer has a long checklist they are required to perform. I checked my new bike over thoroughly after I got it home and it was done right.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 07:29 PM
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I just picked up my 2016 yesterday, trailered home so it still has 0 miles on it. Checked front caliper bolts after reading this and one bolt was loose! Like very very loose, looks like ill be doing a pre-ride torque check on the important stuff. And not taking it to a dealer for the 600 mile rip-off service
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 08:24 PM
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Blue Loctite

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Originally Posted by asphaltaddict33 View Post
I just picked up my 2016 yesterday, trailered home so it still has 0 miles on it. Checked front caliper bolts after reading this and one bolt was loose! Like very very loose, looks like ill be doing a pre-ride torque check on the important stuff. And not taking it to a dealer for the 600 mile rip-off service
If the bolt was loose, you should remove it and see if there are traces of loctite, if no loctite , you need to do all the caliper bolts, check the manual, they state permanent and non permanent and where each is required. Most chapters in the manual describe how to do it, torque values and recommendations as to loctite/ lubing , whatever needs to be done to meet design specs.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 08:32 PM
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Unbelievable

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Hmmm.... so it not just me! I picked up a new LT on Friday and the fuel pump packed in at 12 miles, the left mirror started flapping in the breeze at 13 miles, and a hundred miles later the handlebars seemed a bit loose.... indeed they were! Two of the bolts had not been tightened up fully allowing the bar to wobble about in the clamp. Screen screws were all loose, battery positive bolt was cross threaded (and still is) and the sidestand will not retract on its own!

I do not think the dealer has done a good job of checking things out so I am just going out to check the calipers!
What happened to the fuel pump, and how did you get 100 miles , or was the fuel pump replaced at 12 miles, pretty sad day that what should have been done wasn't and could have been catastrophic . Myself, I would be talking to the dealer, ask them what they would think about you contacting the Kawasaki rep., and explain to the rep the kind of workmanship this dealer provides. I would be very professional about it, and suggest maybe they could offer some compensation in the form of some extras . Don't hold your breath, but I have had some that went out of their way to make things right.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 08:34 PM
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This is serious... So unlike when they were still made in Japan. Seems like it's getting worse.
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 09:15 PM
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steve, you shuda stuck with the concours. dude, you're like the concours god. all that is known is because of you. apparently, we've both defected to the dark side (at least mine is black). i got tired of pushing all that weight around and wanted something with abs. i love mine so far, but i haven't had my brakes fall off!! out side of that, mr lincoln, did you like the play?
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 11:31 AM
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TORQUE your caliper bolts!!!

I have posted this up quite a few times over the years.

SOME inmates had caliper bolts fall out of Gen 1 and 2 650s, so the word "went out" - CHECK them! I've done that as a matter-of-course on my '08, '09 and '15. ALL were OK, but I loosened, then torqued them to the correct values, and have NOT had a problem.

Torque for Gen 1s - 25'/# front; 18'/# rear. I BELIEVE the same values are for the Gen 2s, but the Gen 3s are slightly different. I seem to recall that they are 25'/# front AND rear, but as my Gen 3 is 1,700 miles N of me, I can't check.

onewizard...?

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'08 V - BIG RED - AZ, '15 V650LT - the GREEN HORNET TOO - BC, and ('09 V - the GREEN HORNET - recently deceased..
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 11:40 AM
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It is a pain but you can always drill and safety wire the caliber bolts.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsad View Post
steve, you shuda stuck with the concours. dude, you're like the concours god. all that is known is because of you. apparently, we've both defected to the dark side (at least mine is black). i got tired of pushing all that weight around and wanted something with abs. i love mine so far, but i haven't had my brakes fall off!! out side of that, mr lincoln, did you like the play?
I'm still doing the connie thing, now doing the c-14 upgrades. Branching out w/ the versys. Thanks for the kind words! Steve
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 05:45 PM
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It is a pain but you can always drill and safety wire the caliber bolts.
I have installed thousands of bolts over my lifetime, most were in difficult situations and possible dangerous situations, Electric overhead cranes, generally we disposed of lockwashers unless they were required because of depth of thread in a blind hole, any other time they were thrown out, as many failed on allen head cap screws under shock loads. I had several where the lockwasher broke, then the end bell started to shift and eventually caused the remaining bolts to shear off. As a standard practice, we would measure thread depth and if deep enough the washers got tossed and blue loctite applied, torque with caution because you are now using a lubed torque value as opposed to a much higher dry torque value. Never ever had a problem with bolts coming loose, however did run into problems with some people not knowing to use a limited amount of loctite, pouring on like ketchup expect to brake / shear off the head of the bolt, even with heat!!


One point that was brought to my attention in regards to loctiting steel bolts into aluminum, keep in mind the loctite is like a lube, very easy to exceed proper torque, use loctite sparingly, as to the use of a torque wrench, I use my previous experience and tighten by hand. What I found many times was people covered the complete thread like it was lube, then used a torque wrench and because this is now a lubed torque, they proceeded to strip the threads, next time apart they blamed the loctite for causing the damage, in reality they stripped the threads on assembly. This is a suggestion for aluminum, cover a total of 2 threads maximum with loctite , use the loctite on the last two threads closest to the bolt head, use approximately 35% to 40% of previous torque ( dry torque value is much higher than lubed torque), just remember the loctite is to maintain the final torque you provided, many bolts that I have just above snug have loctite on, are at least 15 to 30% below torque of the way I found them, so they are plenty tight to do their job, and could easily fall / vibrate loose and fall out, this is where a conservative amount of loctite can make a huge difference.

Last edited by onewizard; 03-07-2017 at 10:18 PM.
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 07:05 PM
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I have installed thousands of bolts over my lifetime, most were in difficult situations and possible dangerous situations, Electric overhead cranes, generally we disposed of lockwashers unless they were required because of depth of thread in a blind hole, any other time they were thrown out, as many failed on allen head cap screws under shock loads. I had several where the lockwasher broke, then the end bell started to shift and eventually caused the remaining bolts to shear off. As a standard practice, we would measure thread depth and if deep enough the washers got tossed and blue loctite applied, torque with caution because you are now using a lubed torque value as opposed to a much higher dry torque value. Never ever had a problem with bolts coming loose, however did run into problems with some people not knowing to use a limited amount of loctite, pouring on like ketchup expect to brake / shear off the head of the bolt, even with heat!!
I also like Loctite. But I know most road racing motorcycle organizations require that you safety wire the caliper bolts.
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 11:03 PM
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im one of those nuts that likes to drill my caliper(and a few other) bolts for safety wire,glad you made it out safe

yes im a guy. and i have a husband
Silvie=latin for. Of the forest /woods. Fox= Vulpine (also my middle name)

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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 03:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onewizard View Post
What happened to the fuel pump, and how did you get 100 miles , or was the fuel pump replaced at 12 miles, pretty sad day that what should have been done wasn't and could have been catastrophic . Myself, I would be talking to the dealer, ask them what they would think about you contacting the Kawasaki rep., and explain to the rep the kind of workmanship this dealer provides. I would be very professional about it, and suggest maybe they could offer some compensation in the form of some extras . Don't hold your breath, but I have had some that went out of their way to make things right.
The new bike would not start when I went to pick it up so another 650 was robbed to provide a spare which was fitted there and then. It was also interesting to note that the tech guy was happy to rev WAY beyond 4000 rpm whilst test riding! It is fine now although it does seem to take a few seconds of cranking to fire it up.

I am visiting from the UK and will probably just let this pass for now.
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerboy View Post
It was also interesting to note that the tech guy was happy to rev WAY beyond 4000 rpm whilst test riding! It is fine now although it does seem to take a few seconds of cranking to fire it up.

I am visiting from the UK and will probably just let this pass for now.


tech rules...
the bike your working on isnt yours and you have no connection to it (sentimental),
if you can thrash on it harder then the owner does and it doesnt brake then it "shouldn't" brake on the customer,
and again it isnt your bike so have some fun.........



and that (plus being to poor to afford a shop) is why i do my own work

yes im a guy. and i have a husband
Silvie=latin for. Of the forest /woods. Fox= Vulpine (also my middle name)

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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 10:25 AM
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....and that (plus being to poor to afford a shop) is why i do my own work
PLUS, I do the work to ENSURE it gets DONE, and done PROPERLY!!!
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'08 V - BIG RED - AZ, '15 V650LT - the GREEN HORNET TOO - BC, and ('09 V - the GREEN HORNET - recently deceased..
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