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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 02:46 PM
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Can't ever really be happy about an OEM going down in the powersports industry, but I don't think I'd ever buy a Victory.
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 02:59 PM
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Crap.

I currently own a Victory Gunner. My 4th Victory.

Resale value being bad enough on Victory Motorcycles - just got substantially worse.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 07:12 PM
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Too bad. Seemed to be a quality product.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 07:26 PM
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Maybe now I'll buy a used one :-)
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 09:30 PM
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That's unfortunate. I've never owned a Victory but I never really heard anything bad about them.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 04:18 AM
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Indians have done very well in magazine comparison testing so they seem to have a good product but....

Can't say I'm very impressed with Polaris's marketing efforts, at least in Canada. I live in a city of almost 1 million yet the only Victory dealer sells everything from Urals, to Yamaha to Moto Guzzi. Over the last few years they seem to display only 1 Victory motorcycle on their large showroom floor out of ~40 bikes. There are no Indian dealerships at all. This in a city that has two MV Agusta dealers. Even buying a Polaris snowmobile or ATV requires leaving the city and traveling to a small rural nearby town where the same guy will also sell you a boat or chainsaw. They definitely need to expand their dealer network here. Harley has problems too though, you can buy yourself a very nice BMW GS or Ducati Multistrada with all the electronic bells and whistles for the price of a mid line HD and the Japanese manufacturers have eclipsed their entry level bikes like the Street or Sportster on both price and performance. Even a long sleeved T shirt at the HD dealership sells for $70-$90.

I read where Victory only accounted for 3% of Polaris's profit. Curious where the rest of the Profit comes from.

I really hope they push harder for Indian to succeed. HD needs some competition.

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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 08:07 AM
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Indians have done very well in magazine comparison testing so they seem to have a good product but....

Can't say I'm very impressed with Polaris's marketing efforts, at least in Canada. I live in a city of almost 1 million yet the only Victory dealer sells everything from Urals, to Yamaha to Moto Guzzi. Over the last few years they seem to display only 1 Victory motorcycle on their large showroom floor out of ~40 bikes. There are no Indian dealerships at all. This in a city that has two MV Agusta dealers. Even buying a Polaris snowmobile or ATV requires leaving the city and traveling to a small rural nearby town where the same guy will also sell you a boat or chainsaw. They definitely need to expand their dealer network here. Harley has problems too though, you can buy yourself a very nice BMW GS or Ducati Multistrada with all the electronic bells and whistles for the price of a mid line HD and the Japanese manufacturers have eclipsed their entry level bikes like the Street or Sportster on both price and performance. Even a long sleeved T shirt at the HD dealership sells for $70-$90.

I read where Victory only accounted for 3% of Polaris's profit. Curious where the rest of the Profit comes from.

I really hope they push harder for Indian to succeed. HD needs some competition.
Many of your statements are curious to me. Canada is definitely very different than the US if everything you wrote is accurate.

In the US 40 bikes on the floor is a small dealership.

In the US a very nice BMW GS or Ducati Multistrada will run you over $20,000. That is up in the touring line of Harley.

MSRP on a long sleeve T-shirt at the local HD dealership ranges from $30 - $50, and I buy them for $10 online all the time.

When you compare the price of OEM accessories from all the Manufacturers, Harley is no more costly than the rest, and in many cases I have found them to be less expensive because of online dealers willing to sell at a discount.

Polaris makes most of its profits with its off road vehicles. Indian is growing as well as the Slingshot. They are building a Slingshot manufacturing plant near me now.

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Urbanengineer View Post
Can't ever really be happy about an OEM going down in the powersports industry, but I don't think I'd ever buy a Victory.
I have gone to many Victory test rides and have ridden them all. The only one I could see buying was the Vision but I couldn't get past the looks. The ride of the Vision is amazing though. I found Victories to be pricey new with a lot of depreciation.

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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 09:12 AM
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Many of your statements are curious to me. Canada is definitely very different than the US if everything you wrote is accurate.

In the US 40 bikes on the floor is a small dealership.

In the US a very nice BMW GS or Ducati Multistrada will run you over $20,000. That is up in the touring line of Harley.

MSRP on a long sleeve T-shirt at the local HD dealership ranges from $30 - $50, and I buy them for $10 online all the time.

When you compare the price of OEM accessories from all the Manufacturers, Harley is no more costly than the rest, and in many cases I have found them to be less expensive because of online dealers willing to sell at a discount.

Polaris makes most of its profits with its off road vehicles. Indian is growing as well as the Slingshot. They are building a Slingshot manufacturing plant near me now.
A switchback, which I think is part of the Dyna lineup, is $22K CDN on the showroom floor before taxes and dealer charges. On the other hand a BMW 1200 GS, at least the base model, has I think an MSRP of 21K CDN. The HD dealership has large touring bikes on the showroom floor with prices tags on them on them above $40K CDN. That's the price of a really nice luxury car.

I was given a $100 HD gift certificate a year back. I blew it on an albeit well made with embroidery instead of silk screening, long sleeve T shirt, that came to $100 with our 13% sales tax at the dealership. Walmart used to and perhaps still do sell HD T shirts for $12.

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 11:50 AM
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Canada and it's GST/PST...................the cost of universal health care and other freebies. The base product cost in Canada is about the same as the US but the taxes are killer.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 12:44 PM
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Canada and it's GST/PST...................the cost of universal health care and other freebies. The base product cost in Canada is about the same as the US but the taxes are killer.
Socialism has a cost and many benefit
All is not perfect mind you, but still

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 12:56 PM
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A switchback, which I think is part of the Dyna lineup, is $22K CDN on the showroom floor before taxes and dealer charges. On the other hand a BMW 1200 GS, at least the base model, has I think an MSRP of 21K CDN. The HD dealership has large touring bikes on the showroom floor with prices tags on them on them above $40K CDN. That's the price of a really nice luxury car.

I was given a $100 HD gift certificate a year back. I blew it on an albeit well made with embroidery instead of silk screening, long sleeve T shirt, that came to $100 with our 13% sales tax at the dealership. Walmart used to and perhaps still do sell HD T shirts for $12.
Damn! And you have to put up with cold weather as well. Sure hope the pay scale up there compensates. I believe I read that the average income in the US was around $48,000. Industrial States are more like $70,000.

Just did a quick search and saw that the Median Family income in Canada is $76,000, and $54,000 in the US.

Not sure how your socialized medicine works up there, but here I get $115 deducted out of my pay check every two weeks for my portion of health care. I have $900 more out of pocket per year in the form of deductibles and then still pay a co-pay or percentage for medical care up to $8000 a year cap.

My recent back surgery is going to cost me over $3000 out of pocket so I will have spent about $6000 to have insurance to cover this surgery.

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 12:37 PM
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Damn! And you have to put up with cold weather as well. Sure hope the pay scale up there compensates. I believe I read that the average income in the US was around $48,000. Industrial States are more like $70,000....
Average home in Kelowna where I live - about $600,000 Cdn (Home steep home: Price of average single-family home in Central Okanagan soars above $600,000 - Daily Courier: Business News)....

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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 12:44 PM
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...Just did a quick search and saw that the Median Family income in Canada is $76,000, and $54,000 in the US....
$76K Cdn = $50,666 US.

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...Not sure how your socialized medicine works up there, but here I get $115 deducted out of my pay check every two weeks for my portion of health care. I have $900 more out of pocket per year in the form of deductibles and then still pay a co-pay or percentage for medical care up to $8000 a year cap....
The "free" healthcare comes out of income taxes, and it's a LOT...('Free' Health Care in Canada Costs More Than It's Worth*|*Nadeem Esmail), and for "NOT-SO-GREAT" health-care...!

In addition, BC also adds a health-care co$t OVER and above the income-tax: I pay $150 month EXTRA to BC for my wife and me...!

-

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'08 V - BIG RED - AZ, '15 V650LT - the GREEN HORNET TOO - BC, and ('09 V - the GREEN HORNET - recently deceased..
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 09:59 PM
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$76K Cdn = $50,666 US.



The "free" healthcare comes out of income taxes, and it's a LOT...('Free' Health Care in Canada Costs More Than It's Worth*|*Nadeem Esmail), and for "NOT-SO-GREAT" health-care...!

In addition, BC also adds a health-care co$t OVER and above the income-tax: I pay $150 month EXTRA to BC for my wife and me...!

-
I'm not sure I would agree. Health care here in Ontario is excellent IMO. A friend"s father had two minor strokes late last year and is going for a heart bypass and pacemaker soon at the local heart institute. The survival rate for a heart attack or stroke is supposedly much higher than average in my city, than the average for North America, due to 24 hour rapid response cardiology and neurology surgery teams on standby. In comparison lets say you had a heart attack or stroke somewhere else, you would normally just end up in emerge on oxygen, being fed slow acting blood thinners by the emergency room doctor, until the on call specialist showed up an hour later from his/her home or office. With rapid response surgery teams on standby they can have you on the operating room table soon after you arrive, removing the blockage, hopefully before permanent damage from oxygen starvation has occurred to the heart or brain.

As for cost if you google health care cost per capita it is highest in the world in the US by a large margin, due to the many more inefficiencies in delivery of health care services that result from independent hospitals and the lack of standardization and scale. In a large city it is cheaper to consolidate services like heart care, mental health, obstetrics, cancer treatment, etc. at different facilities than it is to offer competing services at multiple hospitals. Doctors (specialists, not family doctors) can operate more efficiently in an environment where they do not have to operate their own office outside the hospital and support staff is more efficiently shared by the entire hospital rather than the doctor(s) in an office. Doctors can see more patients in a day in an environment like this as they are not moving between a hospital and their office, doing administrative tasks, or putting on casts, measuring blood pressure, or explaining the operation of a pacemaker for instance when there are lower cost support people to do this in a hospital environment. This all lowers the cost per patient. There are also office towers of insurance people taking their cut and negotiating with the doctor on what will be covered in a for profit system.

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 08:41 AM
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$76K Cdn = $50,666 US.
So, are you saying that the cost of living is also the same in Canada when the exchange rate is taken into consideration?

Of course we all know that the cost of living varies around the US quite a bit but just looking at a general average.

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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 01:30 PM
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Sorry - I made a mistake on the exchange rate.

$76K Cdn = $57,904 US.

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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 01:46 PM
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So, are you saying that the cost of living is also the same in Canada when the exchange rate is taken into consideration?

Of course we all know that the cost of living varies around the US quite a bit but just looking at a general average.
We find it significantly CHEAPER to live in AZ than it does to live in BC. Gas here is about $2.06/US gallon, while in Kelowna, BC right now it's $1.189/L, or $3.42US/ US gallon!

Food is a LOT cheaper (my wife says - IF you know where to shop...), as are utilities. Another example - insurance for my AZ Versys is about $240US/ year, while for my BC V, it's about $110Cdn/ MONTH!



Booze...? I can get the same 1.75L gin here for $13US that co$t$ MORE than $55CDN in BC!

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 01:48 PM
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The only rebuttal I have for twowheels, is:

'Free' Health Care in Canada Costs More Than It's Worth*|*Nadeem Esmail

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