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went down today due to ABS malfunction + video

15K views 75 replies 30 participants last post by  onewizard 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Had to suddenly stop but ABS kicked in and the bike kept moving forward. I am not sure anymore I like the idea of ABS on motorcycles.
No damage to the bike except the rear brake lever bent a little bit, luckily i have crash bars that took the hit.


here is the video:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwOwypOcnYntMnUwN0Yxdm1VZ0E

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Thread closed last Edited by onewizard
If the OP has something to update please PM me, otherwise it remains closed.

About 1 year ago I posted a alert about the wiring harness on the 2015 650 ABS, some thought it a knee jerk reaction, I felt it was of importance not so much as to safety but reliability, many of the outer wires in the harness at that location were 18 gauge or smaller and went to the ECU , something that could fail over time and be unaware of it until you were left stranded. It turns out that my lowered 2015 was a combination of possible manipulation of the harness by me and the dealership, it turns out that everyone that posted had sufficient clearance at the top of the rear shock.
So initially I was trying to give a heads up on a possible problem. And that is exactly what I thought of when this thread started, unfortunately I feel there is misinformation and a lack of willingness to either investigate further by using a professional Kawasaki mechanic , or come forward with information that has been missing in previous posts, with a logical explanation of what happened. As it stands right now, this thread would be a good thread for Triumph to use for negative feedback in advertising against buying a Versys.
 
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#2 ·
That's an odd video. Going down that street it feels like you were swaying back and forth but maybe that's a side effect of the mounting position or something.

It LOOKS to me like you you must have hit your back brake almost exclusively, I don't see the front dive at all, is that the case? Learning to rely more heavily on my front brake, especially in emergency braking situations, was hard for me but is invaluable.

Typically with ABS your stopping distance is still shorter than with a locked tire, if you can't stop in the gap you have (or evade), you're travelling too closely or too fast. Looks like you probably could have evaded right, too.

No blame in any of that, but I don't see this is a failure of ABS, personally. I wish my Gen II had it.
 
#3 · (Edited)
I didn't touch the rear brake at all. I didn't sway right because I was sure I had enough distance to come to a stop. ABS didn't give me a chance, kicked in too early, I felt like I was so far from locking the front wheel.
I've been riding for 16 years and not only on weekend, I put about 10k miles a year but the Versys is my first bike with a ABS... so I'm a new rider when it comes to ABS.
Is there a way to deactivate ABS on the versys?
 
#62 ·
New guy to the forum but not new to much else. Also no Versys in my garage yet. I'm here just looking for info and to see what support is here in the real world. I ran across this thread and after reading your post quoted above, I am curious as to why you didn't use your rear brake. After watching the video it appeared that your speed was low enough that the judicious application of some rear brake could have prevented contact. Are the brakes controlled by separate brake control modules or linked in some manner?
 
#4 ·
Wow that is scary - the idea that you grab your brakes when you need them and the antilock kicks in and doesn't let you stop! That's a subtle fear I have about ABS also. Some motorcycles are known to have this problem, especially on gravel.

It does seem like a malfunction to me.
 
#14 ·
Are you suggesting he didn't brake? That he just forgot to pull the lever or something, and posted this video & post to troll us?

If there was a brake malfunction, as he suggests, then the front wouldn't dive. That's why you don't see the angle of the front of the bike change.

I've felt something similar, trying to slow down but the bike wasn't cooperating. This is my first bike with ABS also so I'm not sure what to expect... It only happened once and I chalked it up to human error. It happened so fast and then was working, I wasn't sure if it even happened. Because how could that happen, right? That would be so dangerous if you pulled the brake the the antilock just decided not to stop!?
I have to say, after viewing your video:
FIRST - I saw NO evidence that you came to a STOP before the left turn, and at NO time did I see your front 'dive' which would happen w/ use of the front brakes; and
SECOND - at NO time up to your "collision" did I see your front end 'dive'. Appears to me that you failed to use any front brakes.

I have 'tested' my ABS (2015 650ABS) on BOTH dirt and pavement, by getting to speed, then grabbing a "hand-full" (or right foot-full...) till it cycled. There's a LOT of front-end dive when I did that.

HOPE you figure out what happened....
 
#6 ·
Had to suddenly stop but ABS kicked in and the bike kept moving forward. I am not sure anymore I like the idea of ABS on motorcycles.
No damage to the bike except the rear brake lever bent a little bit, luckily i have crash bars that took the hit.


here is the video:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwOwypOcnYntMnUwN0Yxdm1VZ0E
I had the same sort of thing happen yesterday on my Thruxton. Was trail braking into a corner and felt the brakes let go. Instinctively, I stood the bike up preferring to ride straight up into the grass than low side the bike. The brakes eventually kicked in and I was able to proceed without showcasing any mad motocross skillz to my fellow riders.
Nice thing about the Thruxton is both ABS and TC can be cancelled with the press of a button. If it becomes a regular issue, I might have to disable it, but it's got 2k of spirited riding on the clock now and that's its first hiccup.
Do feel bad that it bit you like that, but it's a good lesson that you shouldn't be following so close.
 
#12 ·
In that particular situation it was my fault because i didnt keep distance from the car in front of me. I was counting on my front brakes, I was pulling the lever hard and was helpless when the bike kept moving forward. I wasn't drunk and I was moving relatively slowly, the SUV in the front just surprised me by sudden stopping. I can guarantee you that if my versys hadn't had ABS i'd have stopped without hitting him.

I must say, it's a very scary feeling when you pull the lever in full strength and the bike just ignores it.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Abs / 2015

Had to suddenly stop but ABS kicked in and the bike kept moving forward. I am not sure anymore I like the idea of ABS on motorcycles.
No damage to the bike except the rear brake lever bent a little bit, luckily i have crash bars that took the hit.


here is the video:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwOwypOcnYntMnUwN0Yxdm1VZ0E
I have looked at that video about 7 times, two times you closed in on the truck, first was the fire hydrant than the street light, at no time did I see the angle of the front of the bike change. I can tell you that I can get my front brake grabbing to the point I am almost going over the bars, back brake will only fire if I lock up the rear wheel. So it has been suggested to try emergency braking in a parking lot, from what I saw in the video, if you hadn't said so, I would have suggested that the back brake was the only brake activated and too late. The other factor is what is your front tire and what pressure are you running, also I am not trying to judge but be helpful, I am just through my rear tire at 9000 KM , do a lot of engine braking and now have a Michelin PR4, no question the Dunlop isn't as good a tire. I changed my rear adjustment to 12 turns in, and front preload to 15 turns in, rebound to 2.0 out. One thing also to remember, if you grab the brake suddenly before weight shift occurs, you have a lightly loaded front tire, it will lock up , hence the ABS, increasing force would have slowed you down when that happened.
If you find the front ABS firing every time under normal and aggressive braking, you need to take it in to the dealer
, I can say even on gravel my front brake is effective enough to have weight shift to the front tire, personally I wouldn't ever disable it, some have suggested that it should be a option for off road, my take is this isn't a off road bike , second thing is , similar to a car, letting off on the brake is the opposite of what you should do when it fires, also you should have been in a lower gear, releasing the throttle provides engine braking and weight shift to the front tire, which in my opinion provides 85 to 90% of the braking.

FYI within the first 3000KM of ownership I had a similar incident, except it was a advanced green during rush hour with pedestrians ready to cross the second the light allowed them, person/ car in front of me could have turned into a parking lot/ business on my left while in the left hand turn lane but chose instead to use the light , this was a very short advanced green turn signal, one car length into the turn she slams on the brakes, I have one hand on the clutch, one on the throttle, no time to grab the front brake and used the rear brake and steered around her while on my horn, never hit any pedestrians or the car, the ABS did fire and gave me the extra 3 feet to get around her. FYI she couldn't complete the turn because it was rush hour and the entrance to the parking lot was blocked by through traffic.

Would I disable my ABS if it was a option---Never ABS isn't a substitute for riding skill, just like skid control and hill start technology in a car isn't a substitute for learning skid control and starting on a hill.
 
#9 · (Edited)
.... at no time did I see the angle of the front of the bike change. I can tell you that I can get my front brake grabbing to the point I am almost going over the bars, back brake will only fire if I lock up the rear wheel....
Are you suggesting he didn't brake? That he just forgot to pull the lever or something, and posted this video & post to troll us?

If there was a brake malfunction, as he suggests, then the front wouldn't dive. That's why you don't see the angle of the front of the bike change.

I've felt something similar, trying to slow down but the bike wasn't cooperating. This is my first bike with ABS also so I'm not sure what to expect... It only happened once and I chalked it up to human error. It happened so fast and then was working, I wasn't sure if it even happened. Because how could that happen, right? That would be so dangerous if you pulled the brake the the antilock just decided not to stop!?
 
#21 ·
ABS explained



To the OP. If you think the ABS was faulty have it inspected at a dealer.

If you didn't know how the ABS was supposed to feel meant you never practiced panic stops in a safe place. Lesson learned.

If the ABS was functioning as designed, the fact that it engaged meant that you locked up the front tire. Without ABS, you would be telling us you ''had to lay her down'' when the front end washed out.

Blaming ABS without knowing how it functions is a cop out.
 
#24 ·
It's hard to deduct failure of machine or failure of rider from a video sometimes. I do see the front end Dive, and to me it looks like there should have been plenty of room to stop. That being said, the whole purpose of ABS is to reduce lockup to maintain control. Did it do it's job? Maybe too well? I don't know. We can all speculate , but unless we ride into EXACTLY the same circumstances, and perform EXACTLY the same procedure you did, then it will all be just best guess scenario. I will say, I am a big fan of using the front brake, and have used it pretty aggressively a few times in quick stops, and not once has the ABS kicked in.. The rear has several times though.
 
#25 ·
It's hard to deduct failure of machine or failure of rider from a video sometimes. I do see the front end Dive, and to me it looks like there should have been plenty of room to stop. That being said, the whole purpose of ABS is to reduce lockup to maintain control. Did it do it's job? Maybe too well? I don't know. We can all speculate , but unless we ride into EXACTLY the same circumstances, and perform EXACTLY the same procedure you did, then it will all be just best guess scenario. I will say, I am a big fan of using the front brake, and have used it pretty aggressively a few times in quick stops, and not once has the ABS kicked in.. The rear has several times though.
I can say that I have been able to fire the front ABS, done on purpose, on gravel, under controlled conditions, the key is to do it before weight shift, remember your front tire performs two tasks at times, braking and steering, that is the reason for having signs in OZ saying Motorcycle "High Crash Area", as you are going into sharp curves with large drops, only so much traction available on the front tire.Said enough, like you said, unless you were there , hard to duplicate.
 
#26 · (Edited)
I have had a few bikes now with ABS. With all of them I have taken them to a gravel lot or off-road and pushed them until the ABS kicked in just to see what it feels like.
My BMW F800GS was the most intrusive ABS of the different bikes. It kicked in several times on the street just on uneven pavement in addition to wet or oily roads or off-road. When trail riding I forgot to disable it one time and had a particularly scary moment on a downhill gravel stretch going into a turn.

For best, safest results, particularly with ABS, always use both brakes. Using one brake can fool the ABS.

Even on dry road, under hard braking tires squirm and slip. The resulting difference between front and rear wheel rotation can be enough to trigger the ABS if you only use the front brake.

In any case, the front brake may give you 2/3 or 3/4 of braking force. That means you are getting 1/4 to 1/3 less braking power only using the front brake.

Use both brakes.
 
#27 ·
I am a recent buyer of a 2015 LT with ABS and it is also my first bike with ABS. I started riding when bikes had drum front brakes (if they had any at all) and drum rears. Not impossible to lock up but harder than disk brakes. My only experience with ABS is on 4 wheel vehicles but I do know what that lack of braking feels like.

I will make no comment on the video as it seems kind of in-conclusive. The OP knows what led to the crash (following too closely) and I would certainly be concerned if the ABS activated under those conditions. I have had occasion to hit the brakes hard on my Versys (buffalo in the road coming out of a hot curve). I usually use both brakes when braking hard (rear first then front right after). I have yet to "find" the ABS with this bike. These brakes are the best I have felt on any of my bikes. I would haul that bike down to a dealer and have them completly check the ABS system if for no other reason than piece of mind. Good luck and post what is found.
 
#35 ·
I kept getting the same message with Firefox (which is my default browser). I do not like Microsoft Explorer and refrain from using it but have used it to view this video. :)
 
#29 ·
I see the nose dive a little bit, but my question is was the bike moving fast enough to have the ABS kick in at all? I'm more likely to believe that muscle memory kicked in during panic and the rider's muscles did what they could to avoid locking up the front wheel, he said he's been riding for a long time.
 
#31 ·
I have a 2016 650 LT twice I have been in the same situation difference being I was using both brakes but more front and both instances it felt like I was going over the handle bars. Both times I stopped in plenty if time. Both times it happened to me I was not paying as much attention to the car in front of me as I was a girl on the side walk. This is the second bike I have owned with ABS and I have to say is one of the best stopping bike I have ever owned.

It would seem in the video that the camera picks up on the brakes lights a few seconds before the driver reacted then there were a few more seconds to go to the right of the vehicle and stop without incident. There may very well be something wrong with the brakes but I have to ask was your attention else where?
 
#34 ·
Watching again (and I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees no evidence of front brake application), here's my hypocalypse:

Rider's a little too eager on the giddy-up for as heavy as the traffic is. We've already seen him one time be a little slow on the brake and a little close on the follow. Rider expects car to go and blips the gas, unloading the front shock, sees car isn't going and slams (for some reason) on ONLY the front brake. With most of the weight off the front wheel and with sudden and intense brake pressure, ABS says "ruh ro I'm locked" and does what it does. Not so much a failure of ABS but a nuance of ABS on a vehicle with only two wheels and constantly changing downward force on the tires.

Still, from the speed, any amount of rear brake would have negated collision, any amount of swerve would have negated the collision, and I'm still not remotely confident that the front brake was applied at all because there should still be SOME dip, at least as much dip as it takes to apply enough pressure for the brakes to think they're locked. The only, if any, dip I see is recompression as accelleration ends.
 
#37 ·
I think what happened was I was accelerating because I thought the car in front of me would pass the yellow light and therefore the front of the bike had no weight on it. Then while accelerating I realized what is happening and hit the front brake but the front wheel was almost in the air already due to acceleration. The ABS did what it's supposed to do.
Sometimes when I brake and at the same time hit a tiny pothole in the road the ABS engaged just for a fraction of a second until I get back on the ground. I think same kind of thing happened to me yesterday.

Lesson learned.
Thanks everyone for your input and thoughts.
 
#39 ·
Interesting -- something very similar happened to me exactly four weeks ago. I was stopped at a light and a cager ran up my butt. I'm lying under a pile of headlights and bumper parts and the driver/assailant is screaming "I couldn't stop! I couldn't stop! My brakes didn't work!" I think that when we get to court we will find that her cell phone was working just fine at the moment of impact
 

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#43 ·
It was evening 'rush hour' traffic here on Cape Cod. Stop and go. She was probably doing about 20 when she noticed me and 19 when she hit me. Could have gone any of a number of ways, including fatal. I ended up with a broken rib, totaled bike, but am mostly healed. Back on the road again in my 'Sunday Driver' -- 1993 750 Nighthawk. I never, ever text or talk when on the road. Never.
 
#44 ·
My 2 cents here

ABS works by braking and releasing rapidly when the little ABS detector wheel at each end, detect a difference in rotation between both wheel

Then, it "pulses" the brake rapidly, and as hard as it can in a pre-programed parameter in the abs computer system

Now, 3 things are possible
Human error
Mechanical error
Both

All are possible here
But I would think that IF abs had come in function in this case, we would see the camera going up and down rapidly because the suspension would be solicitated buy the grabbing/releasins of the brake

Now, since the suspension cannot be as fast as the abs sustem, it would not be bopping at the same rate, but still, it would vibrate at a certain rate, which doesn't seem to be the case here

This doesn't proove either human error or mechanical error (both ?), just that the abs wasn't activated

I would get the abs system checked-up AND consider some comment and make sure it wasn't a human error

My 2 cents

LOP
 
#45 ·
It snowed here a couple of days ago and I found out that the wife's Ford Edge (w/ABS) does not function below a certain speed (don't know what that speed is). I was doing maybe 2-3 miles an hour and when I used the brakes to stop behind another vehicle the tires locked and I slid into the other vehicle. No real damage to either vehicle but was pretty annoying and the wife was miffed that I wrinkled her front license plate.
 
#46 · (Edited)
ABS Speed cut Out


The Versys is the same, somewhere around 3 KM/HR the ABS doesn't function, I assume that is for trail riding, although 5 KM/HR would make more sense. Someone want to check the manual, I recall that the speed set, didn't make it very useful.

I checked it , see post below, and I wasn't far off!
 
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