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Cap'n Kirks Givi V46NT LED Brake Light Install

25K views 54 replies 16 participants last post by  CoachA 
#1 · (Edited)
First, let me thank everyone for the suggestions on LED suppliers, and links to others who have done similar.



Let me start off with some finished photos.

Power off:



Running Lights:



Brakes Applied:



This is what I came up with.

I bought 2 packs of Alpena Flex LED's, RED, 24" (2 - 12" strips) for $19.99 each. I found them both at Advance Auto Parts, and Autozone. These are weather proof LEDs's sealed inside a thick layer of flexible silicone.



I drilled 3 holes for the wiring to enter the case. The center row is centered both vertically and horizontally between the center lens mounting holes. It has 3 sections (9 LED's total)



The LED strips can be cut ONLY where the scissors are shown, basically in 3 LED sections. The only cut I made and jumpered was for the turns. I use a 6 LED section, made a cut and jumpered another 3 LED section on each side. Make sure when you cut and splice that you keep the polarity (+/-) correct! The reason for the cut was the strip could not make the bend to fit the case in a single section. I covered the exposed solder pads with silicone RTV before installing the lenses. Note: when you have to expose the 2 copper pads to make your solder connections, take your time to remove the silicone so you don't damage the solder pads.

The left and right brake sections are a total of 12 LED's each side.

The LED strips come with 3M double sided tape already installed. I used masking tape to hold them in place, then put the lens in place and adjusted as needed then once a location was found I used the provided double sided tape for final placement. Use rubbing alcohol to clean the case anywhere you are sticking a row of LED's!



I centered this row of 9 LED's (that show through the 4 round lenses) both vertically and horizontally between the original center lens screw holes.



I did all my splicing under the document cover in the lid. I found a screw and a cable clamp to fit the hole already in the base of the case so I could zip tie the cable out of the way as it enters the case. You can see the cord grip installed in the lower right corner. I drilled a few holes in the lid and used zip ties for cable routing.



I use the SW Motech Alu-rack and I chose this location to drill and install the cord grip and route my cable to keep my exposed wiring to the bike minimal in length.



For extra brightness, I added two rows of 9 LEDS inside the center lens as well.





A quick check to see them working.



Here is how I wired them. I have the Backoff XP for the 5 flash-steady pattern. Here is how I installed the Backoff XP. I feel it is a great benefit for safety. If you don't have a flasher, just ignore it shown in the schematic and the blue wire continues through to the tail light. I also have an extra row of LED's at the license plate.





Radio Shack stocks several connectors. As Kimel has pointed out in post #4 below, these "Radio Shack connectors" are not weather proof connectors. I have my connector under the seat, so I have to remove the seat to take off the case. If you put your connector out in the elements, you will need to use a weatherproof connector. A 4 wire trailer connector or similar would work.



Relay I used:



This install was time consuming and more on the difficult side but the work to me was worth it and I am very pleased with the outcome. From start to finish, I probably have about 12 hours in this job, but about a third of that was design and parts finding expeditions.

Here is a parts list of the main components I used:

22AWG Wire or larger
Relay PN DS2E-S-DC12V Digikey PN 255-1063-ND
Resistor 750 Ohm Digikey PN CF14JT750RCT-ND (CAN USE ANY 750 OHM RESISTOR)
Cord Grip Digikey PN 288-1178-ND (measure your wire bundle this fits diameters .12 - .31)
Radio Shack PN's 274-224 & 274-234 (or any other 4 wire connectors including 4 wire trailer plug)

You will need soldering tools and materials as you would any other wiring project.

If you are adding up the total number of LED's used, I had 1 piece of 3 LED's left over when I finished.

This project should fall into the $60-$80 range depending on what components you may or may not have lying around.

:goodluck:
 
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#2 ·
Looks Great. Only thing i was wondering is do you have a quick disconnect for the wiring if you need to take the case off the bike.
 
#4 ·
For those that might want the connector in the weather, those molex type connectors are decidedly not weather resistant. They actually wick up and hold moisture in my experience. There are lots of weather-resistant connectors out there.

Very nice job and write-up!!!
 
#11 ·
So, if I'm reading the diagram correctly:

- the red wire going to the tail light in the bike's harness is for the running lights.
- the blue wire going to the tail light in the bike's harness is for the brake light.

Correct?

Thanks,
Dave
 
#12 · (Edited)
Correct

Red - Always hot when bike switched on.
Blue - Hot only when brake lever or pedal is pressed.

If you add LED lights, they only burn at full brightness. You must add a resistor (or two in my case) to dim them for running lights as well. You can play with different values of resistors to make the dim different brightness. I settled on (2) 750 Ohms because that looked good to me. The relay in the circuit allows the LED's to be switched from running to full bright.
 
#19 ·
I haven't had a lot of electrical experience so this might be a dumb question... what if I just tapped LEDs into the existing brake and signal wires. If they're wired in parallel, there should be no decrease in brightness, however the extra resistance on the signal relays would cause them to flash at a different rate (slower?). Is that correct or am I missing something?
 
#20 · (Edited)
Lets keep this reply in 2 parts. Brake Lights and Turn Signals:

Brakes: Scenario 1 - If you tap direct (to the BLUE wire "switched" +12V) and do not use the relay/resistors, the added LED's will be in one of 2 states - OFF (while running) or ON (Full bright when Braking) unlike your factory brake lights. Your OEM tail lights are wired using resistors to dim them so you have running lights before applying the brakes. If you choose to skip the relay/resistors, you will have no added lights while the engine is running until you apply the brake.

Brakes: Scenario 2 - If you tap direct (to the RED wire "always hot when bike is running" +12V) and do not use the relay/resistors, the added LED's will always be on full brightness while running and braking both. Scenario 2 is a bad idea and may be illegal as you will not switch to a brighter brake light.

Brakes: Scenario 3 - If you connect to BOTH the RED & BLUE wires, (essentially tie them together, you would have no more OEM running lights and your brake lights would be on 100% and never turn off. Scenario 3 IS NOT AN OPTION.

Turn Signals: Turn signals in my setup are wired as you suggest. I just tapped into the existing (switched +12V). Those LED's are in two states - Full bright or Off. I see no visible difference in flash rate.

I hope this answered your questions. If not, post up again, I will be glad to help! :thumb:
 
#21 ·
Thanks, that's helpful, but I think I'm still missing something. I'm basing this on my limited electrical knowledge from high school 15 years ago...

Regarding the brakes in scenario 3, why would connecting to both the blue and red cause them to be always on? Wouldn't only the red be live during regular riding and only the blue be live when braking? Isn't that how the stock brake light works?

Based on your diagram, the stock brake lights have two live wires, the red and the blue and I assume only one is live at a time (unless there are two separate sets of lights)

What your relay allows you to do is have a single live wire running to your LEDs with the relay controlling which power signal they receive, instead of having two live wires like the stock brakes.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Thanks, that's helpful, but I think I'm still missing something.

Regarding the brakes in scenario 3, why would connecting to both the blue and red cause them to be always on? Wouldn't only the red be live during regular riding and only the blue be live when braking? Isn't that how the stock brake light works?
Actually, the red stays hot all the time (same as the license plate light) while the key is switched on. The red wire is not de-energized when the blue is energized. They are both energized when the brakes are applied. This is where you are getting lost.

Inside the OEM tail light, there are resistors that the red wire connect to then on to the LED's. The blue wire bypasses the resistors and goes to the same LED's without limiting the current as the red wire does with the resistors.

Here is how I believe the OEM tail light to be wired:



What your relay allows you to do is have a single live wire running to your LEDs with the relay controlling which power signal they receive, instead of having two live wires like the stock brakes.
Correct on the single +12V wire to feed the brake/running lights. It also allows me to dim them to running lights under the seat with the two resistors and switch to the flashing brake lights.
 
#26 ·
Thanks for the questions Filbert. I'm about where you are with this electrical stuff. I would have been happy settling for the Givi brake light kit, relatively simple install, but I also have the case with the clear lenses. The LEDs in the Givi kit are white, so I'd need a red lens. Now it's looking like I'll go this route. I really like the idea of running lights, brake lights and turn signals.

This project is high on my list.

Thanks for the great write up and the diagram!
 
#27 ·
I stopped by RadioShack to look for electric connectors and was surprised to find that the store had fewer aisles than it used to. It seems they've stopped carrying a bunch of the small electric parts and I found almost nothing useful.

Aside from that stuff, I'm not sure what else Radio Shack carries that isn't carried by someone else with better selection or lower prices...

Guess I'll take a trip to Fry's...
 
#28 ·
Our Shack has their connectors in a set of drawers.

You are correct, Radio Shack does not stock near what they used to. Now they are getting to be more like a mini Best Buy with little inventory. They still have a decent selection of soldering tools & equipment & such. With the internet, I usually just purchase electronics stuff from Digikey, Newark, or Allied depending on price & stock.

Also, if you need small stuff like resistors, diodes, etc... Try Ebay and order from Asia. They are super cheap and have never had a problem getting parts shipped in.
 
#29 ·
I'm looking into different connector options. One thing I like about the Givi light kits, is that it's super easy to remove the case. There are no wires to disconnect. At this point I think I'm not going with the Givi lights, but want something pretty easy to disconnect.

Cap'n if you remove your case, it looks like you'll have to cut the zip tie, and remove some length of wire with a connector at the end, correct? Not totally unmanageable, but I want something even easier to disconnect. Any other thoughts out there? I've got the LEDs I want to use already, just trying to figure out how I want to connect them up...

Thanks!
 
#31 ·
Cap'n if you remove your case, it looks like you'll have to cut the zip tie, and remove some length of wire with a connector at the end, correct?
Correct. I must remove the seat as the connector is stored under. I then cut the zip tie and remove, less than a minutes work. I remove my case maybe twice a year to wash and detail the bike. If your use warrants, by all means adjust the power connection to suit your needs! I just wanted to keep my connection under the seat and out of the weather. :thumb:
 
#30 · (Edited)
I believe Cap'n has molex style connectors under the seat.

I just bought these, which I will figure out a way to weather proof (lots of RTV silicone?)



They are 48" molex power connectors for ATA disk drives. I plan to cut these to length and splice the female end into the signal wires and brake light, then run the end under the seat to my pannier frames.

The male ends will be spliced to the LEDs and mounted to the panniers. When I mount the panniers, I can connect the male and female molex connectors and disconnect them when unmounting.

I could buy my own connectors for a few bucks and solder the wires myself, but these cables are only $3.45 each with free Prime shipping and have nicely color coded wires, so a couple bucks to skip that work is fine by me.
 
#32 ·
I believe Cap'n has molex style connectors under the seat.

I could buy my own connectors for a few bucks and solder the wires myself, but these cables are only $3.45 each with free Prime shipping and have nicely color coded wires, so a couple bucks to skip that work is fine by me.
My Molex connectors are very similar to those you show. Looks like a nice connector you found & pre-wired as well.. :goodluck:
 
#33 ·
I've got an electronics question about the resistors...

In the schematic, are the 2 750 Ohm resistors wired in parallel or serial? My understanding, based on the dude at Radio Shack, is that if they're wired in parallel, the resistance is halved. If so, why not just wire a single 330 Ohm resistor?

Thanks,
BaileyMan
 
#34 ·
We have a few drawers of different values of resistors at my work and I had some 750's and tried one and it was dim, so I tried two in parallel. The brightness will be the same as you suggest but two in parallel will run cooler in temperature (not that one 330 would get hot under load). I used what I had and it worked so I passed it on. Hopefully my value got you in the ballpark.

The resistor value will only change the brightness so play around with them to make them run dimmer or brighter as you wish.

:goodluck:
 
#35 ·
Cool. Thanks for the clarification. I like the brightness of your running lights. Not too dim, and a clear difference from the brake lights. I'll try out the single 330 Ohm resistor and see how that works out for me...

Cheers!
 
#36 ·
Hi Cap'n...another question...

I'm making progress on this install. It took me awhile to grok the wiring diagram and apply it to the actual wires and hardware and to figure out which wires get connected where. I had to draw a couple of diagrams of my own to really get it.

Do you have any pics of the splices under the document cover? How do you neatly splice all the grounds together into a single wire coming out of the top case?

Thanks so much for your help with this! It's a great mod!

BaileyMan
 
#37 ·
I'm making progress on this install.
Great to hear!

another question...

Do you have any pics of the splices under the document cover? How do you neatly splice all the grounds together into a single wire coming out of the top case?
:eek: Quite honestly, I didn't make my splices neat in appearance under the document cover. Don't get me wrong, I did a nice solder splice with heat sleeve to make an electrically sound connection / insulation. I purposely did not try to neatly route the wires though. I left them about 12" too long so I could have room to work. Once finished, I just tucked the mess under the cover and snapped it closed. This way, if there should be a problem, I have plenty of wire to work with should I need to troubleshoot in the future.

Keep me posted on your results! I am excited that someone else is giving it a shot! You will be pleased with the results once you finish this project! :goodluck:
 
#38 ·
Thanks. It's coming along. I tapped some of the wires in off of the relay this am, & wouldn't you know it, the tail/brake light still worked, just like it should! Uh-Maayy-zing!

Glad to know it's ok for the splicing to look a little (or very) messy under that document cover.
 
#39 ·
I spent tonight cutting and soldering my wires, though I made a couple mistakes so my work is kind of messy. But hopefully I'll finish this weekend. All I have left to do is stick the LED strips onto my panniers, route the new harnesses and finally tap the stock signal/brake wires for power.
 
#40 ·
How's it coming Filbert?

I just mostly finished mine up this evening. I have some finishing steps to do, like get the cable grip, some kind of conduit to run all my wires from the bike to the box, and the final soldering. Right now I just have the molex connector electrical taped to the LED wires under the document cover. All of the LEDs are soldered up though.

The orange turn signal LEDs I have aren't quite as bright as I would have liked, but they work. They stockers are definitely brighter.

The single 330 Ohm resistor worked well.

Pics later...
 
#43 ·
Finally got around to getting some pics of my LED light install. Thanks Cap'n for blazing the trail...

I had some LED strips that I ordered from superbrightleds.com and never used. I don't know how thrilled I am about them, but they work. I think they are barely visible in daylight. Especially when riding into the sun, I can't imagine the car behind me would be able to see much in the way of turn signals or running lights with the glare. They're great at night though, and that's what I was really hoping for.

Running lights


Brake lights


Turn signals/running lights


I also used a small rubber grommet with some silicon glue for the wires entering the case. Not the best photo...


I really like having these extra lights. Knowing that I'm a little more visible to the cars behind me is comforting. I still don't trust them though...
 
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